Author Topic: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822  (Read 587 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« on: August 10, 2009, 04:29:58 PM »
Here's a book I'd never heard of before tonight.  I found it very interesting because it is full of all kinds of data, quaint stuff you never see elsewhere.  Also, US Navy gunnery data from the era it represents seems to be very scarce.

http://books.google.com/books?id=lHcNBLcgVSQC&lpg=PA37&ots=TfpGUlyK1K&dq=grapeshot%20weight%208%2012%2016&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Here's a sampling-a portion of the table of contents. Sorry but the "text" conversion I had to do to copy it creates a lot of typos which are not in the raw version you will see on Google.

Preface, ................. ;".. 9

Tables of Sea Stores and Outfits, ............ 14

Apparatus necessary for the equipment of Long Guns, ..... 23

Table of the Diametcr for the Grape Shot, ......... 37

Cylinder Formers for Long Guns, ............ 38

A Table shewing the Weight of Grape Shot from 1 to 1000, ... 38

Apparatus necessary for the equipment of'Carronades, ..... 38

Cylinder Formers for Carronades, ...... .....49

Plan of a Cylinder Former, Double: and Single, ....... 50

A Table of Questions and Answers, useful in Gunnery, ----- 51

Parts of a Gun Carriage, ........ ». 60

Dimensions of Powder Barrels, ............. 60

Form of a Certificate, ...... ........ . . (jo

Instructions, ------ ......... - . . . fi|

Preparations for throwing Guns over board in bad weather, - - - 6.}

To know the distance of a Shot by the sound of a Gun, ..... C\]

liow to make u Gun lay fair on the Carriage, so as to keep clear of the Ports, .................. Cj

Observations at Quarters, - -- ........... 64

Table on Powder, ................. 67

Table of the different sorts of Powder and the Marks, - .... 67

How Great Britain tries Powder, ------- ..... gjj

How the United Stales tries I'owder, ........ - . „ gfj

Directions for Mealing Pov.Ucr, ............ 69

Utensils wanted .............. --..69

Table on the proportion of Powder for Sea Guns, Long1, - - - - 70

Gunners' Quadrants and Plumb ....... - ..... 70

Method of proving' Guns in the U. 8. Navy, ..... .-..71

Questions and Aiuwei-i, .............. - 73

A Table of days works calculated to finish the articles appertaining to to a Gun for actual service, ...... -.-7VJ

Quantity of Junk taken to inake a number of Flemish \Vacls. - . 75

Canvas taken to quilt a certain number of Grape. - - 75

Marline taken to quilt a certain number of Grape Shot, - 75

Twine taken to make a certain number of Bags, ... 76

Height of a certain number of Grape Shot, ......... 7(5

certain number of stands of Grape, - ..... -77

certain number of double headed Shot, ...... 77

Quantity of Flannel taken to make a certain number of Cylinders for

Long Guns, .............. 73

Thread taken to nu;ke a certain number of Cylinders for

Long Guns, --.--------...73

Flannel taken to make a certain number of Cylinders for

Carronades, .............. 78

Thread taUen to make a certain number of Cylinders for

Carronades, ..... -.-......79

Proportion of Fow'dtr for Carronades, - ... ...... 7<j
A Table shewing the Length and Weight of Guns used in the United

States' Navy of true cast bores, ..'..... 80

Diameter of the Bore of a piece of Ordnance, 80

Round Shot, 80

A Table of a triangular Pile of Balls, 81

Explanation of - - ditto 81

Calculator of Bombs and Shot 82

Rule to find the Number of Bombs or Shot in a Pile, 89

Rule for making Gun Carriages, 89

Tables on Fire Ships, 91

Method of Blowing a Ship or Fortification tip, 93

Composition for Blacking Guns, 94

for Blankets, 95

Tables on Carcasses, 95

Formers for Musket and Pistol Cartridges, 98

A Table shewing the number of Musquet and Pistol Cartridges made

from one sheet to one and two quires of paper, - - 99

Quantity of Powder taken for a number of Cartridges, 100

Twine to pack a number of Cartridges, ...... 100

Weight of so many packs of Cartridges, 100

Quantity of Thread taken for a number of Cartridges, 101

Weight of a number of packs of Cartridges, 101

Quantity of Powder taken for a number of Cartridges, -


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 05:03:47 AM »
Thanks, this is a good find that I haven't come across before, it covers an American naval time period that there doesn't seem to be a slew of books available on.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline MikeR C

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 09:31:18 AM »
Ah Ha!  Pg. 116, smoke balls! I knew it. My smoke ball mortar is prototypical!  :)

MikeR C

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 09:38:04 AM »
as i found from shooting at 550 yds with my Dom CSA Parrott a smoking tracer would be a good thing to have .

i'm thinking about a charge that only burns for 1/2 a second then just smoke from there . it is hard to see a hit at 500+ yds
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 10:51:48 AM »
hi Gary and welcome back

what muzzle velocity do you have ??
lets guess for 300 yards per second, approximately 2,5 seconds from muzzle to target
what smoke generating substance could generate smoke enough in that short time period to give a visible trace in the air ??
its a very interesting idea, but it will probably need a lot of testing before you find the right substance.
he he , but a very fun testing  ;D

I would start with a 0,5 x 0,5 inch hole in the back of the sabbot and fill it with a mixture of 50/50 blackpowder and something that generates a hughe amount of smoke.
and compress the mixture hard that it doesnt burn to fast , same as a blackpowder rocket engine
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline MikeR C

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 11:21:18 AM »
http://www.skylighter.com/mall/kits.asp

Look here about half way down the page, smoke powder. The shell could leave a red, white, and blue trail :)


Offline dan610324

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 11:39:11 AM »
just a little thought gary
is it legal to use tracers in cannons ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 11:58:02 AM »
YEP..ISH . AS  damn cap locks ...as ...i ammm no lawyer , but as i understand you can shoot a bursting charge of no more than 1/4 oz. ....436...iirc .

my huge concern would be fire of course . most places i shoot are pretty dry ....... timming these things is very interesting to me . nothing 'real' but just fun things ....

i've heard chalk dust and bp works ...but no real clue ....

i would not EVER recomend this nonsense as .......you could die .... :o
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 12:18:20 PM »
as the sabot goes out in about ....nearly ..almost ..well many splinters ,and no more than 50 yrds range .

i HAVE discovered a big help in shooting "Tart" my parrot at long range ...'500' yds and up . i believe that putting the wheels ....   :D....awh never mind ... or was it the trail ...? i cant remember exactly what ..... ;) i did ...but if i remember i will surley post it 'out lound '

OR if i shoot with you ... you're in . the catch is you can no tell  :o .    just like ALL particepents of the montana shoot are SWORN TO ...by proxy ...so there is that . ;D

besides i could be wrong anyway and may have to eat some ......well crow ....if you eat enough of it ...it's really not that bad . :D




hi Gary and welcome back

what muzzle velocity do you have ??
lets guess for 300 yards per second, approximately 2,5 seconds from muzzle to target
what smoke generating substance could generate smoke enough in that short time period to give a visible trace in the air ??
its a very interesting idea, but it will probably need a lot of testing before you find the right substance.
he he , but a very fun testing  ;D

I would start with a 0,5 x 0,5 inch hole in the back of the sabbot and fill it with a mixture of 50/50 blackpowder and something that generates a hughe amount of smoke.
and compress the mixture hard that it doesnt burn to fast , same as a blackpowder rocket engine
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 12:30:52 PM »
how about a nylon sabot ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 12:32:16 PM »
....? how about silicon bronze ?
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 12:35:25 PM »
it will be a heavy sabot  ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 12:46:30 PM »
oh touchett..i think   'skewered wit a sword !'  ouch .

alright so ......that was a good one , and i will say no more ....      ......yea sure  ;D
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 01:29:21 PM »
I got a good smoke trace from some WD-40 on cloth in the rear of the projectile.  WD-40 on wood may work also.  As i recall we had a plywood sabot 3/4 in. thick on the back of the projo, then three disks of canvas fastened only in the middle, by a bolt, to the sabot.  We sprayed the WD on the canvas just before loading, and voila!...white smoke trace.  This was with a 3" bore rifled gun.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2009, 01:47:22 PM »
thanks c,mn ! thats the sort of thing i'm thinking of !! nothing real flamable just  a trail of smoke .

it would have to be on the ball though as the sabot only goes about 50 yds . in many directions ...

no i have not tried either silicon bronze or nylon sabots . nor anything smokable ..yet .

but i can see some testing in my future ....! ;D . tiny little baby steps ...one at a time .....as to grow as old as .......well just old . :D
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2009, 01:50:43 PM »
You could bolt a plywood sabot to the ball and it will stay on.  I made my sabots with a hole saw, so they already had 1/4 in. holes in the exact center.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Marshall's Practical Marine Gunnery 1822
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2009, 01:56:05 PM »
thats a good idea C'MN ,i wouldnt use something like that in a shoot except to dial her in .....

i've never shot 18 steel ball loads B4 . this little paarrot is something to see!
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.