Author Topic: 40,000 dollar canon (Read 2227 times)

Oldshooter · « **on:** August 10, 2009, 05:04:43 PM »

I saw a little cannon on a show last night about pawn shop operators. Can't remember the name, maybe some of you will recognise it from the description. it was a little piece the guy said was built for Indian wars and the Spanish American war in Cuba. Very portable with spoke wheels and a breech loader and rifled. does "hotchkis" ring a bell. Anyway the guy wanted to sell it and they called in an expert who said it was one of only 87 made and the value was estimated at 40 grand and they fired it on the show.

I was impressed with the remarkable way it had been maintained in fact the pawn guy thought it was a reproduction until the expert told him that it was impossible that it was due to the fact that it was illegal to do so!

The guy had paid 20 grand for it a while back and the pawn broker told him he would give him 30 grand for it if it would fire, well it did. The owner wanted the 40 g's but the pawn broker told him that he wasn't a collecter and that he would only buy it if he could make some money on it.
So everyone was happy i guess, personally i would have held out for the 40 g's

This is a web site about such a gun, it may be like it.

http://www.spanamwar.com/hotchkis.htm

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:19:08 PM »

Kind of interesting that pawn show, I think it's all reenactments---fake, made to look real.

That same gun showed up on R. Lee Ermy's Lock and load show with the same Rick the cannon expert.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:24:28 PM »

We had an earlier thread on this a while ago,

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,178366.0.html

DD I think your right, there isn't any difference between Hollywood and Las Vegas it's all pretend.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:43:54 PM »

Go figger that! it sure is!

Well anyway the little gun was impressive! no matter that the story was fabricated! or Not

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2009, 06:12:24 PM »

I don't think the story was fabricated, it was reenacted...

Oldshooter · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2009, 05:13:56 AM »

Gotcha, I misunderread! Either way it would make a great coyote rifle

Cannoneer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2009, 07:29:01 AM »

The gent that evidently describes himself as a "Hollywood movie advisor/gun and cannon expert" is named Rick Pohlers, and he also sometimes appears on another goofy cable show called "The Haunted Saloon."
The two cannons that he was involved with on "Pawn Stars," and "Lock & Load" were different guns; the cannon shown on the P/S show was a Hotchkiss 1.65-inch, 2-pdr Mountain Gun, and on L & L he was showing his own cannon, which (I think this is what he said) is a Driggs-Schroeder 1-pdr naval gun. William H. Driggs and Seaton Schroeder were US Navy officers that were designing ordnance in the time period of the late 1800's, and early 1900's.

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Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2009, 08:34:34 AM »

You are right they didn't show the Hotchkiss on lock an load, my mistake, but Rick is there.

For those of you with high speed internet, and no TV here is a link so you can watch the artillery episode. http://www.history.com/video.do?name=LockNLoad

Marine Dad · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2009, 02:05:47 PM »

Nothing gets by you Guys!

I love this site!!!

Cannoneer · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2009, 02:18:18 PM »

I'm not so sure about that, Marine Dad; I just looked at the clip again, and now I'm not sure if that's a Driiggs 1-pounder. Cannonmn, chime in on this one; is that a Driggs gun?

Marine Dad · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:13:49 PM »

Who you be a askin?
Me?

Good Lord Man, I just got my first .69 cal Cannon a few months ago.
I can't for the life of me understand half the stuff you people are talking about, half the time.
So that makes it a 1/4, right?

But I like it!

BoomLover · « **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2009, 04:26:18 PM »

Marine Dad, he was refering to Cannonmn, one of our resident experts, sort of one of the "go to" guys if you have a techinical question, or need some clairfication on a cannon or mortar point. He posts some really great stuff, very informational. Another reason I love this site, ya got a question, they will find an answer! BoomLover

intoodeep · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2009, 05:15:59 PM »

Here is another Driggs 1pdr. on a deck mount. This one was restored by Mr. Pohlers also.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:11:59 PM »

Thanks Intoodeep, I only remember ever seeing one photo, or drawing of a Driggs Mk XII, and it was mounted on a pedestal base like the one in the photo you've posted.

Hey Marine Dad, did you think that I would take it upon myself to rename you Cannonmn?

nematode · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:25:00 PM »

I'm least qualified to make any comment at all but the first argument that the cannon being fake is "impossible" because producing a replica is illegal, doesn't mean squat. There are plenty of illegal acts but it sure hasn't stopped people from doing them. Counterfeit money... etc. Tell you all what, I have some prime land for sale in Timbuktu and I'll let you have at 1/100 it's real value, say $1000/acre? Anyone interested? (laughing)

cannonmn · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:34:18 PM »

That "Haunted Saloon" seems to this mid-Atlantic resident, like an awfully strange format, but I can fully understand it is another "California thing."

I wonder what their main feature is-do they run movies with these little skits during breaks, or what? I don't think I'd be able to take even 1/2 hour of that stuff "straight."

Cannoneer · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:46:49 PM »

Yeah, strange format is right; I typed in Rick Pohlers name just to see what would turn up, and this is what I got. I've never so much as heard of this show before, and it's evidently a live show, which is very easy to tell by listening to those hackneyed ad-libs.

Marine Dad · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:03:16 PM »

My Bad,
I just thought maybe he typed like I do.
I don't know squat about these wonderful things yet.
I'm learning though.
I do have an old Frat buddy who's father in Law was on a Cannon Crew in Mass.
They called themselves the “Wonalancet Wanderers”.
Dave Brooks was one of the leaders.

They supposedly got stiffed on a show or something they did. They were to get free drinks at the Bar and the man who booked them left. So they had the cannon on a trailer, barrel facing to the rear in the parking lot.
Story I heard was that one of the crew was a bit tipsy, loaded the thing with newspaper and fired it toward the bar. Blew out some of the windows!
Now I don't know if this is true, but I did hear the same story more than twice told by the same man, sober and a under the influence of fine rye!
If any of you have heard of this group please let me know.
Oh, he also played the Bagpipes!

Allwood Edwards was his name

cannonmn · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:55:39 PM »

I finally caught the pawn shop show thing, the episode with the cannon. I know both the "pawn customer" Chuck Abshire and the "cannon expert" Rick Pohlers, and they've known each other for probably 30 years, for whatever that's worth.

Forgetting about my friends for a moment, the rest of the show is awfully strange if you ask me, more like "The Three Stooges Run a Pawn Shop." What unlikely situations will "they" think of next for a contrived reality show?

How 'bout: "Most Acute Proctology Cases of 2008?"

Or: "World's Funniest Fatal Medical Errors."

Oldshooter · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2009, 12:01:25 AM »

jlwilliams · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2009, 01:56:36 AM »

That cannon on the show is what made me come here this morning. Man, I have to have a cannon! I don't see me getting any $40k guns anytime soon, but dang! Cannons do look fun.

Are there many breach loaders that, like this one, were made early enough to be considered 'antiques'?

cannonmn · « **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2009, 03:33:34 AM »

Quote

Are there many breach loaders that, like this one, were made early enough to be considered 'antiques'?

There were thousands of breechloaders made prior to 1899, the cutoff date. Most that survive are in collections, museums, etc. There aren't many left in old ladies' garages or attics, or basements unfortunately. Collectors sell and trade them to each other periodically. They come up at auction now and then, too.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2009, 03:37:44 AM »

Welcome to the forum, jlwilliams.

Quote from: jlwilliams on August 14, 2009, 01:56:36 AM

Are there many breach loaders that, like this one, were made early enough to be considered 'antiques'?

I don't know which of the two cannons you're asking about; if you're asking about the Hotchkiss 1.65-inch 2-pdr mountain gun from the pawn shop show, the number of guns that exist worldwide was given as fifty, or fifty-something, I can't recall the exact figure, and I'll assume that this information derived from R. Pohlers. If you're asking about all the examples of breech loading cannons that are older than (let's say) a hundred years, that are currently extant, my answer would be that I haven't a clue. I don't know if you know this, but breech loading cannons were amongst the earliest forms of cannon produced; a member here "thelionspaw" owns a fine reproduction of an early example of this type of gun.

cannonmn · « **Reply #23 on:** August 14, 2009, 12:53:08 PM »

Let's see what this Hotchkiss 2-pdr. brings at auction coming up soon. I checked into it and found it has some rifling left in front half of bore but none in rear half, typical of an "outside" stored gun that had water in the bore. The marks as you can see are in rough shape, can't really see the details of the once-crisp and handsome Hotchkiss logo. The outside of the barrel is OK but just a bit corroded. This isn't the more desirable centerfire conversion like the one in the Pawn shop show, this is the original friction-primer fired version, much harder to work with as far as shooting, since the cartridge cases have to have a built-in check valve. The carriage isn't quite as nice as many I've seen, the trail handles look like replacements or the kind some foreign governments had on their Hotchkiss 2-pdrs. Notice this has a tool compartment (if you can see it in the photos) in the middle of the trail, with a top that opens. This is just another variation of the Hotchkiss guns I've seen before.

The defects I mentioned will all detract from the price, in normal circumstances. If two bidders with deep pockets go after the thing though, there's no tellin'. If that doesn't happen I'd be surprised if this thing goes over about $20K.