Long range shooting the 30-06 vs. .270 Handi

[Jimbo47]

"Ask member "Sourdough" if the 30-06 works OK in a Handi. Hw has a few wolves at 500 yards (and perhaps 600 yards?) to prove it does....<><...."

This was a quote taken from another thread, and everyone who is a regular around here has heard the justified praiases of the 30-06 and what can be done with it, from Sourdough!

I was wondering if anyone who shoots the .270 has similar claims and opinions about the skinny kid brother of the 06?

I've got a .270 but haven't fired beyond 200 so I'm curious if it would perform as well?

[Default]

Jim,

 I would think the 270 every bit of capable of long range work , The question is more of " Will we put in the work like Sour has with load devolopment? "

 Thats the real question .. I have stressed this to friends .. Put in the time working up a sweet load for a rifle..  Good ammo that a rifle likes plus a knowlegable shooter that has learned the finer points of long range work with a quality piece of glass , And the 270 Win. shouldnt have any issues..

 In fact that .277 projectile out of its necked down 06 case is a flater shooter with more velocity then the trusty dusty 06 in its original 30 cal form.
 
 On the other end of this conversation , If you dont reload ? Start !  It allows you and afords you more practice ammo and the ability to tailor a round to the rifle in question.
 If you dont and wont reload them be patient and persistent in trying as many factory loads as it takes to find the sweet round for your weapon .

 Just get your ducks in order and practice practice practice Hope this helps you out a little,


   Default

[wreckhog]

I seem to remember that Sourdough only gets long shots and he sights in for that. And uses a rangefinder to make sure. Not a typical big game hunter in most areas. More like a varmint hunter IMHO. He needs a Barrett.....lol

[Jimbo47]

I seem to remember that Sourdough only gets long shots and he sights in for that. And uses a rangefinder to make sure. Not a typical big game hunter in most areas. More like a varmint hunter IMHO. He needs a Barrett.....lol

He might just be trying to give them a sporting chance!

I've never taken a shot over about 250 at an animal, and most of the reason for that is the way I was brought up, an where I hunted.

I bowhunted exclusively for almost 20 years but due to getting older and some shoulder issues and not being able to sit still for long periods like I used to, I kind of reverted back to my rifle in recent years.

Don't do any ground hoggin, so never had the need to go long, but it's kind of been a curiousity with me as of late, and with all the reading on here I've done.

Just need to find a place where I can set up a target out that far, and still see it with my old eyes!  LOL!

[SHOOTALL]

it seems all dia bullets are now used for 1000 yard comp. 6mm , 6.5 .30 etc. so it would seem you could hit with a 270 . What you need to know is will a 270 have enough left to kill clean at that range , well does it ? Getting there faster dosen't make it a better choice at long range everytime . nor a bad choice . Seems i read an article by or about W Page where he used a 30-06 alot inspite of the love affair with the 270 for really long range work . But ammo is better now.

[Jimbo47]

30-06 vs. .270 debate continues!

[Jimbo47]

I bought some 150 grain .270 during the run on ammo after the first of the year when everyone was in panic mode, and if you have a 30-06 loaded with a similar charge and bullet wt. as a .270 wouldn't it not be just as lethal at the same range?

Seems like the real advantage is the 06 has a wider range of larger bullets to choose from, but you could pretty much match the 06 on the lower end of bullet weights.

A 165 grain 06 bullet is fairly popular, so how much more of an advantage/difference in long range effect would a 150 grain bullet fired from a .270 against a deer sized target be?

Quote  "it seems all dia bullets are now used for 1000 yard comp. 6mm , 6.5 .30 etc. so it would seem you could hit with a 270 . What you need to know is will a 270 have enough left to kill clean at that range. "

Taking the quote above it seems the .270 would kill a 1000 yard target equally well at that range!

So realistically, it would depend on what you are hunting I would think, deer, vs elk, and then the 06 would have the advantage of larger grain bullets.

But with a flatter trajetory of the .270, then what comes into play at reasonable hunting range, is shot placement which over rules bullet weight, since with a well placed shot, dead would be dead.

Yep, the old arguement has reared it's ugly head!  LOL!

[trotterlg]

Why stop at the .270?  Just move on down to the 25-06 and shoot a little farther.  Larry

[wreckhog]

Let's say that under normal conditions, you can shoot 2MOA at 100 yards. Normal means, a perfunctory rest, a couple shots, breathing hard, sweaty hands, etc. Given that you are need to be in 10" to have a clean kill, that works. At 600 yards, 2MOA just became 12". The kill zone is still that same size though. And if you need a 2nd shot on a moving animal, you are SOL. So to kill cleanly at 600 yards, you better be the real deal. I think that Sourdough shoots where there is no cover and he has a snowmobile.. So if the animal is hit well, there are no tracking issues. As long as it can't outrun a snowmobile and you keep an eye on it, it is gonna die where you can find it and where you can recover it. Vs where other folks hunt, with maybe a max 400 yard shot across a field surrounded by dense woods and other people's property.

[mitchell]

Let's say that under normal conditions, you can shoot 2MOA at 100 yards. Normal means, a perfunctory rest, a couple shots, breathing hard, sweaty hands, etc. Given that you are need to be in 10" to have a clean kill, that works. At 600 yards, 2MOA just became 12". The kill zone is still that same size though. And if you need a 2nd shot on a moving animal, you are SOL. So to kill cleanly at 600 yards, you better be the real deal.

its not too hard to be "the real deal" i've been through a lot more and shoot well under MOA . it all depends on how much training and what kind of training you put your self through. i've made a one shot kill on a deer past 700 yards witha 308 handi off a bipod and a sand sock i carry in my pack. just add stress shooting into your preseason traing  and get off the couch and go for a run and i promise you, yhour kill rate will go through the roof. also if your going to try to take game at 600+ then shoot at 600+ a 2 inch group at 100 isn't always a 12 group at 600.


back on topic:

i've killed a deer at the upper 500 yards (wasn't quite 600 but real close , it been too long i dont remember) with a 270 in a remington 700 it had a 24 inch barrel but the deer still only ran a short distance, so ya the 270 will kill just fine at that range.

[wreckhog]

Anyone that can shoot well under MOA consistently in the field with a stock centerfire Handi is not a normal hunter. But they are the real deal. They probably have perfect vision, are under 40, have some sort of firearms instructor status, shoot competitively, have shot thousands of rounds in the field, handload, and have probably bought and sold and accurized many Handis. Just carrying a bipod in the field and using it successfully with a Handi implies a lot of practice and customiztion. Just my opinion.

[gstewart44]

Hey Sourdough!   Have you shot any 270's  up there at the North Pole?   If so how does it compare to the 3006?

[Jimbo47]

"Ask member "Sourdough" if the 30-06 works OK in a Handi. Hw has a few wolves at 500 yards (and perhaps 600 yards?) to prove it does....<><...."


I was wondering if anyone who shoots the .270 has similar claims and opinions about the skinny kid brother of the 06?

I guess that is the way I should have worded the original question!

[petemi]

I have limited experience with both the .30-06 and the .270.  I think the '06 is more versatile because of the wider range of bullet weights available.  Patty's .270 is sighted in for, and she shoots only 90 gr hollow points a friend loads for her.  She uses it only on varmints.  Her longest shot to date was a chuck at 440 yards.  She doesn't deviate from that load, and knows her rifle, a Stainless 700 mountain rifle.  I shoot a Handi '06 and use 180 gr. for everything....chipmunks to bear.  I'm still learning it, and have a long way to go to catch up with my bride.

In my, possibly erroneous, opinion, trajectory doesn't mean squat diddly.  I recently went to an antique artillery shoot where they were putting cannon balls, 900 - 1300 fps., through an open section of newspaper at a thousand yards.   We who distance shoot the .45-70 to -120s have learned that.  It just boils down to knowing where a particular load is going from a given rifle.  The ultimate quest is for the load that kills best for the game and distance you're shooting.  I harbor the notion that a big, slow bullet will kill better at long range than a light, fast bullet.  That's why I chose the '06 over the .270.....but, you have to understand, my Handi .45-70 is my favorite rifle.  I do have a 7mm-08 to play with.

Pete

[wreckhog]

I shoot .22lr at 200 yards (max distance on my range). When you sight in at 200 all you need to do is put the reticle on the target and wait for wind to stop. But if you want to hit a squirrel at 75 yards you are SOL.

[SHOOTALL]

petemi , the higher the arc of the bullet the smaller the window of opertunity to hit the target , you have little room for error . That is compensated for on known target distances but if the true yardage and percise sight adjustment is not known you are at a disadvage.

[Sourdough]

Sorry for the long time in replying, been out of town.  Just got back this morning at 3 AM.  Long, cold, wet, miserable Caribou hunt.  4 Caribou hunters, 4 Caribou. 

As for the .270, I shot one back 50 years ago and was not impressed at the time so I have never tried one since.  Don't see it doing anything my 06 won't do.  I hear a lot of good said about it, and meet a lot of people using one, but they are usually hunting smaller thin skinned game like antelope, sheep, or caribou.  I personally think it is a little light for Grizzly, and I am always hunting in Grizzly country so I don't carry one.

In Alaska you don't go armed for what you want to shoot, you go armed for what you might run into.

[petemi]

petemi , the higher the arc of the bullet the smaller the window of opertunity to hit the target , you have little room for error . That is compensated for on known target distances but if the true yardage and percise sight adjustment is not known you are at a disadvage.

I never change my .45-70s sight adjustments, and just have a natural feel for what the bullet drop will be at or over 300 yards.  I also have a sense of range or distance that more than likely comes from hunting my own land 99% of the time.  Any bullet you shoot will drop over distance, so you're back to square one......how much?  I once overshot a nice buck at 300 plus yards with a .308 because I had a .30-30 mentality.  I didn't know the .308s ballistics.

In Alaska you don't go armed for what you want to shoot, you go armed for what you might run into.

I haven't seen a Griz around here for a week or two that I can remember.  (wish I did)  But, black bear time....now...nobody goes out back on my place berry picking without something that will stop a 500 pound blackie.  Just a rule of thumb.

Pete

[rickt300]

For just shooting at long range they are both very good accurate rounds.  I have always owned both cartridges but he 270 has generally stayed home when I went hunting but not always.  I got he feeling the 30-06 was a lot more gun than the 30-06 but pretty useful just the same.

[mitchell]

Anyone that can shoot well under MOA consistently in the field with a stock centerfire Handi is not a normal hunter. But they are the real deal. They probably have perfect vision, are under 40, have some sort of firearms instructor status, shoot competitively, have shot thousands of rounds in the field, handload, and have probably bought and sold and accurized many Handis. Just carrying a bipod in the field and using it successfully with a Handi implies a lot of practice and customiztion. Just my opinion.

and you are 100% right. but i dont have perfect vision. 20/25 and 20/30 i wear glasses when i hunt

all i'm saying is anybody can do it , all you have to do is put the time in. and by stress shooting i, not saying you have to go for a 2 mile run with a 50lb ruck , there are other ways .

[jeepmann1948]

This is one discussion that will continue for a long time ! It has been going on ever since the 06 was necked down to 270. Adding fuel to the fire the 28 & 25 calibers were added. Personally I think that a well practiced hunter, using their favorite above mentioned calibers are adequately equipped for long range shots .
 However, this campfire discussion will never be settled for sure because of the nature of "my gun is better than yours" Adding the mags both short and long versions will add fuel to the fire.
 Another way of looking at it:
  If one was actually better than the others what would we discuss?

God Bless the USA

[44 Man]

You forgot the .280!  That would be my first choice, and best compromise.  44 Man