Author Topic: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes  (Read 1212 times)

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Offline dan610324

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help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« on: August 13, 2009, 03:35:27 AM »
a short time ago someone posted a picture with a white oak carriage stained with amonium fumes ,
who was it ?? where is it ??
I have been checking the posts 5 pages back but cant find it, probably I have missed it in some way .
anyone who can help me ??
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline carronader

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 04:06:52 AM »
what you want white oak for? I got some nice bits but already run it through bandsaw..........remember till now I have only been thinking small carriages. would only cost a few pounds sterling if I   could get it in one of those padded posting bags. I think I can afford that.  attached ugly gun :P
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Offline thelionspaw

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 04:19:19 AM »
Dan,
What is it you want to know?  Why the interest in ammonia?  It's nasty to work with.

Richard

http://www.craftsman-style.info/cabinetry/finishing.htm

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Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 04:31:50 AM »
yes it sure is , but it gave a very nice stain to the wood
Im just curious and have a few questions about penetrating and so
knowledge is always an easy burden to carry
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Max Caliber

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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 04:50:01 AM »
And another: Ammonia Fuming , fresh off the WWW.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 04:58:15 AM »
Carronader, I think you may have forgotten to put your glasses on when you dubbed this mortar ugly, because in my humble opinion, the needle on the meter would be pointing to the beautiful mark, not the opposite.
Where's it located, and do you have any specs on it?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 05:27:37 AM »
forget about it , you know he is scottish .
even the men wear skirts , and they eat haggis
do I need to say more ??   ;D

personaly I think its one of the more beautiful mortars I ever have seen ,
but he forgot the flash  ;D
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline KABAR2

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 06:36:37 AM »
Well if he finds any more ugly mortars like that one he can send it to me,

I'm willing to start a foundling home for ugly mortars & cannon if need be........
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 07:54:18 AM »
me toooooo , I will feed and wash them every day  ;D

who knows what will come with ups  :o
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 12:07:56 PM »
I think our Scottish friend is so deeply in love with carronades, that he simply has no room left in his heart for any other type of ordnance. ;)
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 12:28:26 PM »
Carronade, thanks for the pic of that ugly gun, just toss it my way, as I'm starting a collection of just such ugly, unwanted, guns like that one! I can see why you made the connection of white paint stained with ammonia fumes and that ugly gun! It was to stay on topic! BoomLover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 01:40:56 PM »
hehehe , I know that he loves bronze barrels , but dont tell him that I told you guys  ;D

and thanks for all the info
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline RocklockI

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 04:05:04 PM »
Tom , I have always respected you , and you know that's true . 

(sorry dom) I would willingly trade my BRAND NEW french 75 for , nothing extra  :o just a swap for that uouglish 'thingage '.

i feel your greif and can and will  ;D ship it ASAP ...upon reiceving you'er meager offering .... :-[

NOW i cann't do this all day ...... but for you tom , i will talk to the boossss ....  WOW that was quick ! she said..... "well ok" ...'if you think its it a good deal ' .....so i am on the hook ...abit  :-*.

i will chance it , i'm looking for a box now  ;D
 overnight work for you .......?

you did say you owned it outright ...right ????     ugly old Sammarri Sword from the 1600's , throw one of those in too ....trade bait .....'perfect or better' only . a slight cloud to the hamon , only if you have a dupe .... ::)

i'm just sayin ..... :D     . im me for detials .   Sincerly Gary M Lorenz .....aka 'rocklockI'

over night is good for me . :D ;) ::) :o ;D :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline MikeR C

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 06:46:05 PM »
This carriage was fumed with ammonia, then polyurathane finish applied, then sanded on glass till the grain was filled. Not a particularly appropiate finish for a cannon carriage, but it was an experiment. the light specs are partly filled grain reflecting the flash. As of yet I don't have a barrel for it.
One big advantage of fuming is it turns the wood an even color wheras stain tends to fill the grain leaving dark spots.
I put houshold ammonia in a plastic bucket and suspended the wood in the bucket. It goes much faster if you wet the wood with the ammonia but fuzzes up the wood. It will however stand some light sanding.
I first heard about fuming looking into the original mission furniture.






Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2009, 12:06:11 AM »
  Y E S      thats the one I mean

for how long did you have it in ammonium fumes to reach that color ??
how deep into the wood is it stained ?? do you have any idea of that ??
how long time does it take until the ammonium smell disappears from the wood ??

this is a thing I just must try

what size is it on the carriage ??
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline MikeR C

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 07:19:58 PM »
I used "household" ammonia, the kind without soap. I cut, sanded, and drilled the wood pieces so they were ready for assembly before I hung them in the bucket. I hung them so they did not touch. I robably could have assembled the carriage then fumed it but the hardware is all iron and I was afrait the moisture would rust it. Then I poured a couple of inches of the ammonia in the bucket and covered it with plastic wrap.
It has been a couple of years since I did this so the following is what I remember, which may not have any relationship to reality :)

for how long did you have it in ammonium fumes to reach that color ??

Seems like I left the wood in for a couple of days. The polyurathane finish did also darken it some, I used oil based poly as it is welowish and makes the brown "warmer".

how deep into the wood is it stained ?? do you have any idea of that ??

I don't know, sorry. I remember having to sand it lighty to remove the fuzz caused by the moisture in the bucket and I don't remember it lightening much.

how long time does it take until the ammonium smell disappears from the wood ??

After the wood came out of the bucket i let it air dry overnight, the smell was gone by then. Ammonia dissipates very quickly in the air.

what size is it on the carriage ??

The tube under the trunnion straps in .5 inch, and the wheels are 1 inch in diameter.

Sorry there are not too many hard facts here. If I do this again, and I might, the color is beautiful and much better than stain. I would put the ammonia in a waterbath so I could heat it and pipe it to a container with the wood, and put salt on the bottom to absorb the moisture in the ammonia to keep the wood dry. I would probably do this outside :)

Thanx
MikeR C

Offline carronader

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 09:16:53 PM »
Wee ugly pots :P the case for the defense is coming when I get back mon/tues and resize and organise my photos.I will post until DD says stop,this museum holds a lot of good stuff but no one speaks English and information on displays is minimal.As usual lighting is a problem,but I tried my best to get decent photos (flash not allowed) even for you poor misguided,shortsighted pot lovers..............bronze cannons are of course treated with the respect they deserve.I will be posting photos! not a catalogue of exhibits,I would have loved to give a proper information feed on each cannon but no index/reference stuff was available.Hopefully the dirty wee pot lovers among you will mend the errors of your ways and elevate your status to real cannons. ::)
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Offline carronader

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 09:37:15 PM »
For the more technically minded............at about 2 o'clock you will see a notch cut out and inlaid..........not patched............looks like to the naked eye precisely fitted at tdc. with another one further round in a clockwise direction...........maybe someone has seen this before.  and please don't tell Dan I posted a Chinese cannon I want to keep at least one friend on this forum ;D
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Offline Victor3

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 11:13:52 PM »
...but no one speaks English

 So.... Is "A moose loose aboot the hoose" considered English?

  Been waiting for an opportunity to ask you that. Spent a lot of time trying to understand my best friend's ultra-Gaelic-accented Grandparents while growing up....

 ;D
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Offline carronader

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2009, 12:54:33 AM »
could be here all day Victor,for such a small piece of real estate (in world terms)so many accents,dialects,pronunciations used within Scotland you will get away with just about anything.How to prounce Burns poetry for instance depends very much on where you were born/educated.I lived in Ayrshire for close on 15 years so am probably quite good at it but with many of his words falling into obscurity,any alleged 'expert ' should be treated with suspicion. He was a rat and a snake btw.............man of the people my a..     sold out and became Revenue man....................customs and excise.............just another tax man.
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Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2009, 01:41:40 AM »
could it be the visible part of a copper galippa ??
is it just 2 ??
or could it be 4 equally divided around it ??
Dan Pettersson
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better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2009, 02:24:39 AM »
Some unusual terms there for fuming oak with ammonia.....

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 04:41:48 AM »
Suggestion: Do NOT sand oak. Do NOT steel wool after ammonia (it changes the colour of oak). Scrape the raised grain (fuzz) with a "steel".  It's a thin flat and square edged rectangle of steel plate that is used without a holder/handle.  Check "Wood Craft Supply".  I dress-up and burnish the edge after a GREAT while of use. You shouldn't have to touch it after these little projects.

Personally, I most often still use steel wool for the final cut.  Sanding bends and lays-over the fibers; whereas steel (wool or blade) cuts it clean. No dust to clog the pores.  I never concerned myself with colour change because I do 17th & 18th c. furniture.

Just a thought,

rc
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Offline Double D

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2009, 05:40:22 AM »
I was taught a long time ago to not use steel wool on oak...the tannic acid reacts witht the steel and makes black spots...bronze wool was recommended instead.

Offline dan610324

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2009, 05:50:16 AM »
where to find bronze wool ??
Dan Pettersson
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better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2009, 06:40:56 AM »
Check shops dedicated to fine wood working.

I got mine from Kramers


Here's another Bronze Steel Wool

Offline thelionspaw

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Offline Terry C.

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2009, 12:32:14 PM »
I got my bronze wool from a boating shop.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: help needed, stained white oak with amonium fumes
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2009, 06:16:58 PM »
For the more technically minded............at about 2 o'clock you will see a notch cut out and inlaid..........not patched............looks like to the naked eye precisely fitted at tdc. with another one further round in a clockwise direction...........maybe someone has seen this before.  and please don't tell Dan I posted a Chinese cannon I want to keep at least one friend on this forum ;D

Carronader,

I see one inlay of what might be be copper at 12:00 on the breech ring, but I can't see any others. That inlay placed in the bronze is probably delineating the line of metal (center line on the top of the barrel) for the purpose of laying the gun.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.