Anywhere in the U.S. where you can "live off the land"?

[45-70.gov]

i  have thought about living on a boat

on the intercoastal waters

plant a few crops  on  some  small  islands...not  shre  who owns  them?

eat   ALL  the crop stealing rabbits first

fish  most of the time

as  long  as i have a cast net  i WILL never starve

my  little  22 ft  sail boat needs  little to no fuel
and  has a place  to sleep  and   escape the sun
can run  up river  during  hurricanes
plenty  of  nice  bathing suit  fillers  to  look at...so  bi-noculars will  be  needed

hoist  the sail  and go where  the weather  suits your clothes.....free

[hillbill]

that last post sounds like the best idea ive heard yet.

[dukkillr]

i  have thought about living on a boat

on the intercoastal waters

plant a few crops  on  some  small  islands...not  shre  who owns  them?

eat   ALL  the crop stealing rabbits first

fish  most of the time

as  long  as i have a cast net  i WILL never starve

my  little  22 ft  sail boat needs  little to no fuel
and  has a place  to sleep  and   escape the sun
can run  up river  during  hurricanes
plenty  of  nice  bathing suit  fillers  to  look at...so  bi-noculars will  be  needed

hoist  the sail  and go where  the weather  suits your clothes.....free

Send me a picture post card if you do it.  I'd love to hear how it goes and would especially like to see pictures.

[SteveHawaii]

If you like working hard, having a hard life, and being poor, I mean real poor, then living off the land is for you.  It's not for the idealist or faint of heart.  The Amish know what they're in for, and accept that.  It is definitely not an easy life.

[flmason]

Hi All,
   Sorry this turned into a shouting match, above.

The thought driving this was, "If my personal SHTF, is there an alternative to living on the street, given a couple of firearms, some light equipment, etc."?

In other words, should the current economy force me to the curb, I'd rather try to live 1800's style than try to go it in the city with what's there. But for the lack of indoor plumbing, I could be quite happy at it. Did actually live in a house once that had everything turned off but the water, LOL! Long story, but it wasn't too bad.

So the though was, "Is the idea of going back to the old ways legally possible somewhere in the USA where there local ecology could actually support a person without killing them?" I mean, some desolate areas are flat out desert. Others have winters that lead to things like the Donner Party.

Seems the answer on the legality is a definite "no" based on the discussions above. There's no where left where you could go and simply set up shop without being run off.

So the next step up would be taking title to some land "somewhere". Ah, but that costs, and if one is being forced to the curb, $$$ is an issue.

So, at least the initial assessment is, "Ain't no realistic way to pull it off."?  (At least not without a pile of $$$)

[SHOOTALL]

If you were alone you might work as farm help on farms that supply food and board moving with the crop harvest or some such life . Add in fishing and other seasonal jobs you might get by .

[flmason]

If you were alone you might work as farm help on farms that supply food and board moving with the crop harvest or some such life . Add in fishing and other seasonal jobs you might get by .

Interesting idea. I'll file it as advice for sure.

But to be honest, if that were the goal, I could just go work some low level job right here. But that would likely lead to living in or near high crime areas. (Granted farm life should be far from that.) The fundamental idea is to be free of the chafe of "society" if I can't live in the part of society I want to be in.

Would rather live in a log cabin (with running water, LOL!) than in "the hood". That I'd have to do the work of survival would all literally be enjoyable at that point. The biggest worry would be the need for medical care as I age. I'm not exactly young anymore, but not yet old either. But 10+ years down the road, it could be an issue.

So in short the idea would be to establish a form of freedom, not just a different form of wage slavery.

[SHOOTALL]

the freedom of travel may bring you into contact with ideas you may not know about now . A commune or other arrangement etc.

[flmason]

That may be true, but I'm fairly certain any sort of commune isn't for me. A small community with individual homesteads maybe, but not a commune. That'd just bet the rural version of apartment living with a bunch of roomies, LOL! (Least that's my impression.)

The core idea is to be unfettered by other folks ways and means. Otherwise, might just as well continue living in town, right?

[flmason]

i  have thought about living on a boat

on the intercoastal waters

plant a few crops  on  some  small  islands...not  shre  who owns  them?

eat   ALL  the crop stealing rabbits first

fish  most of the time

as  long  as i have a cast net  i WILL never starve

my  little  22 ft  sail boat needs  little to no fuel
and  has a place  to sleep  and   escape the sun
can run  up river  during  hurricanes
plenty  of  nice  bathing suit  fillers  to  look at...so  bi-noculars will  be  needed

hoist  the sail  and go where  the weather  suits your clothes.....free

But for the spectre of piracy, I'd say this is an interesting approach. But by the time my personal SHTF, purchasing even a 22' McGregor will likely be out of the question, LOL! Which is sad, as I can sail.  Would definitely choose the west coast over the caribbean or Florida Intracoastal though. Not sure about how it is to live in the two different environments, but definitely prefer the pacific vibe to the caribbean vibe. My impression is that there's an awful lot of armed drug boats on the east coast.


I have at least one better healed bud that is considering this, but with a medium to large sport fisherman.

What are the legalities of anchoring, etc. Costs?

[Blackhawker]

I didn't read all of the above posts but I thought I'd add my two cent's worth here.

Is there anywhere one can live off the land in the US??  Well, that should be an easy answer;  just ask any Native American, they'll tell you.  I think the last people living off the land were the plains and great basin tribes but General Custer, Colonel Chivington, Colonel Crook and the rest of those b*st*rds took care of that.

From what happened there, I would think that the US government probably doesn't want anyone "living off the land" anymore.  

[flmason]

I didn't read all of the above posts but I thought I'd add my two cent's worth here.

Is there anywhere one can live off the land in the US??  Well, that should be an easy answer;  just ask any Native American, they'll tell you.  I think the last people living off the land were the plains and great basin tribes but General Custer, Colonel Chivington, Colonel Crook and the rest of those b*st*rds took care of that.

From what happened there, I would think that the US government probably doesn't want anyone "living off the land" anymore.  

Well, I guess you could argue that back then, they wanted the Euros living off the land, and no one else. Of course, fast forward to todays, and it's pretty clear the Civil War overturned the Declaration of Independence, LOL! By that point, yes, we all became subjects of the Federal Gov't. Has it's plusses and minuses, but true nonetheless. 

A quick second thought. Summarily killing off the buffalo herd. Man, what a waste.

[Blackhawker]

I didn't read all of the above posts but I thought I'd add my two cent's worth here.

Is there anywhere one can live off the land in the US??  Well, that should be an easy answer;  just ask any Native American, they'll tell you.  I think the last people living off the land were the plains and great basin tribes but General Custer, Colonel Chivington, Colonel Crook and the rest of those b*st*rds took care of that.

From what happened there, I would think that the US government probably doesn't want anyone "living off the land" anymore.  

Well, I guess you could argue that back then, they wanted the Euros living off the land, and no one else. Of course, fast forward to todays, and it's pretty clear the Civil War overturned the Declaration of Independence, LOL! By that point, yes, we all became subjects of the Federal Gov't. Has it's plusses and minuses, but true nonetheless. 

A quick second thought. Summarily killing off the buffalo herd. Man, what a waste.

Weird how you put that;  we all became subjects of the Gov.  Isn't that what we were to the Queen of Brittan before the Revolutionary war? 
When considering what we're talking about here it sure looks more like we're talking about the Land of the Illusion of Freedom, doesn't it?   
....still beats living in Afghanistan or something though!

The buffalo:  WOW, what a thought that was....if you wanna get rid of certain people or have them give in and surrender, kill all of the animals and the environment in which they live.  Hey, aren't we doing that to ourselves today with urban sprawl etc???  I wonder when we will finally give in and surrender? 

[Graybeard]

While not a current tale I can tell you of one who did just that. My younger brother got into drugs while in the Navy. I reckon he did about everything but stick a needle in his arm. He even got into dealing to support his habit for awhile then stopped and tried to get cleaned up some. Someone from his past got caught and the cops talked him into getting my brother to use his old connections to buy some kinda dope and when the exchange went down he was hauled off to jail.

He spent some time in and got paroled. That was in GA. He left for the swamps of FL and lived there off the land hunting, fishing, trapping and growing veggies for the next 14 years. The first two living in a pup tent then the rest in a small camping trailer he somehow picked up. He had no job, no ID the entire time and lived off the land the entire time. No I'm sure it wasn't legal and likely many of the things he did while there wasn't either but he pulled it off. Even around here prior to that he often stayed in a tent along a secluded river bank for months at a time living off the land.

He eventually got caught by a game warden for something and when they ran him they found he'd skipped parole and reported him to GA. They said they had no further interest in him so he returned home to this area and has been in the area since tho at times since again living off the land from tents and such.

[flmason]

@Graybear - Wow, the Florida Swamps. What a place to pick. Having hunted in the Corbett area, (was born in Fl.) It's the last place I'd pick (at least in the sunbelt) LOL! Gators, mosquitoes, "palmetto bugs", LOL! A very inhospitable place. Wow, that had to be a miserable existence.

I was hoping somewhere in the Pacific West or NW was still possible. Forests and such. Of course any place mountainous is going to have the problem of freezing and frostbite.

Would be nice if the economy turned around and I wasn't having to contemplate this, LOL! Freakin' AIG, et. al.

Ah well, probably just fooling myself.

However, I suppose if one could adjust to the local culture, Appalachia might be doable. Would still prefer the west though.

[flmason]

I didn't read all of the above posts but I thought I'd add my two cent's worth here.

Is there anywhere one can live off the land in the US??  Well, that should be an easy answer;  just ask any Native American, they'll tell you.  I think the last people living off the land were the plains and great basin tribes but General Custer, Colonel Chivington, Colonel Crook and the rest of those b*st*rds took care of that.

From what happened there, I would think that the US government probably doesn't want anyone "living off the land" anymore.  

Well, I guess you could argue that back then, they wanted the Euros living off the land, and no one else. Of course, fast forward to todays, and it's pretty clear the Civil War overturned the Declaration of Independence, LOL! By that point, yes, we all became subjects of the Federal Gov't. Has it's plusses and minuses, but true nonetheless. 

A quick second thought. Summarily killing off the buffalo herd. Man, what a waste.

Weird how you put that;  we all became subjects of the Gov.  Isn't that what we were to the Queen of Brittan before the Revolutionary war? 
When considering what we're talking about here it sure looks more like we're talking about the Land of the Illusion of Freedom, doesn't it?   
....still beats living in Afghanistan or something though!

The buffalo:  WOW, what a thought that was....if you wanna get rid of certain people or have them give in and surrender, kill all of the animals and the environment in which they live.  Hey, aren't we doing that to ourselves today with urban sprawl etc???  I wonder when we will finally give in and surrender? 

Well, I guess it is weird relative to typical thought on the matter. But thinking legalistically for a moment... The Declaration of Independence said in so many words, "You can be free where you stand if you list your gripes and pledge your life and fortune..."

Then the south tried to do the same, and their loss of the Civil War essentially said, "Nope, ya can't do that anymore, Declaration Overturned!"

All of which sort of makes the Gettysburg Address a bit of a sophistry.

"Four Score and Seven years ago".... a direct reference to the date of the Signing of the Declaration

"Our forefather brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal"... more backward references.

"Now we are engaged in a great civil war testing whether any nation so concieved and dedicated may long endure".... Umm... yeah conceived in succession from England, LOL! Dedicated to telling the King and his taxes to take a hike, and using the common folks to fight that battle...

"...that governement of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish..." Umm references to the constitution, which some say didn't authorize Lincoln to be engaged in the war in the first place...

Yeah, destroying all those buffalo was an affront to anyone that believes you only kill what you're going to eat. They were after all, other living beings. Animals, yes, but wanton killing, not cool.

Make no mistake, I don't know of a better place to be living, but lets say what the truth is, since that's what at least some part of the spirit of the first ammendment was supposed to be about, true?

[Graybeard]

flmason Ya gotta survive winter to live off the land. Doing that anywhere out west would be a true struggle if trying to live free off the land without a home and other comforts. At least in FL ya ain't gonna freeze to death.

Yeah the bugs had to be horrible but to hear him tell the stories it was the happiest time of his life I think. I've tried many times to get him to write the adventure in a book or at least post them here but all he wants to do is read paper back novels.

[flmason]

flmason Ya gotta survive winter to live off the land. Doing that anywhere out west would be a true struggle if trying to live free off the land without a home and other comforts. At least in FL ya ain't gonna freeze to death.

Yeah the bugs had to be horrible but to hear him tell the stories it was the happiest time of his life I think. I've tried many times to get him to write the adventure in a book or at least post them here but all he wants to do is read paper back novels.

Ah well, if he's happy, who are we to tell him what to do?

Having had times without work, but with $$$, I can say with some certainty, having what you need and perhaps a little of what you want, without the chafe of the everyday world is priceless.

There's two ways you can have that. Drop out through the top. I.e. get rich enough to retire. Or, drop out through the bottom.

Most of us can't afford the first way, and most of us, by virtue of our socialization and lives to date, aren't prepared to handle option B. (What I laughingly call the "bum" option at times. I generally call option A "having what you want, how you want it", and consider it way more desirable. Correspondingly harder to obtain though.).

But yeah, in general, independence is priceless. If he doesn't need to sell a book to be happy, though it may be a waste of the experience, well, he's happy.

[Graybeard]

Some how, far be it from me to understand HOW, he has been given a military disability pension for the short time he was in the Navy even tho he failed to complete his initial tour. He was assigned to a nuke sub and got out on chlostrophobia as I recall.

When he was at the very bottom of his luck lungs shot from a life time of smoking and dope, no home, no income and in the hosptial fighting for his life some guy from the VA paid him a visit and worked some kinda miracle and he draws as much retirement now as I do even tho I put in 30 years and retired as a mid level manager under civil service. He was in a year or so and then bummed around the rest of his life. So no he doesn't need the money. He still lives a very simple and cheap life so isn't hurting for money. Still the stories would be interesting for folks to read I'm sure.

[Blackhawker]

Greaybeard,
That's a pretty wild story about your brother.  I'm glad to hear he's doing OK now. 

On the subject of living off the land, this typically refers somewhat to being "free" and having freedom.  You had mentioned above "He still lives a very simple and cheap life..."  A simple and cheap life......your brother, although not "living off the land" in the technical sense is probably living more of a "free" life than most of us.  I think the more basic one lives, the more free one becomes and the more freedom we have.  It's just so damn hard to do that when living within a greedy society or in a country or continent with industrialism. .....which kinda rules out the entire planet for living off the land and being absolutely "FREE".

[45-70.gov]

i  have thought about living on a boat

on the intercoastal waters

plant a few crops  on  some  small  islands...not  shre  who owns  them?

eat   ALL  the crop stealing rabbits first

fish  most of the time

as  long  as i have a cast net  i WILL never starve

my  little  22 ft  sail boat needs  little to no fuel
and  has a place  to sleep  and   escape the sun
can run  up river  during  hurricanes
plenty  of  nice  bathing suit  fillers  to  look at...so  bi-noculars will  be  needed

hoist  the sail  and go where  the weather  suits your clothes.....free

But for the spectre of piracy, I'd say this is an interesting approach. But by the time my personal SHTF, purchasing even a 22' McGregor will likely be out of the question, LOL! Which is sad, as I can sail.  Would definitely choose the west coast over the caribbean or Florida Intracoastal though. Not sure about how it is to live in the two different environments, but definitely prefer the pacific vibe to the caribbean vibe. My impression is that there's an awful lot of armed drug boats on the east coast.


I have at least one better healed bud that is considering this, but with a medium to large sport fisherman.

What are the legalities of anchoring, etc. Costs?

don't ancor  out in the chanel
probly 50  boats grouped in the river downdown

some  are rented  bouys
some are  not

i   know one man  that lives on  his boat
he  is handi capped after  being shot in the head by  her  boyfriend
and  he  gets  some kind of check
he has been  doing it for  about 20  years  i know  of
he  has  obama stickers on  his car  so i dont talk to him anymore

wild  guess     500 people living on boats in the county
counting  the snow birds  [yankees going south for the winter and   back]

[flmason]

i  have thought about living on a boat

on the intercoastal waters

plant a few crops  on  some  small  islands...not  shre  who owns  them?

eat   ALL  the crop stealing rabbits first

fish  most of the time

as  long  as i have a cast net  i WILL never starve

my  little  22 ft  sail boat needs  little to no fuel
and  has a place  to sleep  and   escape the sun
can run  up river  during  hurricanes
plenty  of  nice  bathing suit  fillers  to  look at...so  bi-noculars will  be  needed

hoist  the sail  and go where  the weather  suits your clothes.....free

But for the spectre of piracy, I'd say this is an interesting approach. But by the time my personal SHTF, purchasing even a 22' McGregor will likely be out of the question, LOL! Which is sad, as I can sail.  Would definitely choose the west coast over the caribbean or Florida Intracoastal though. Not sure about how it is to live in the two different environments, but definitely prefer the pacific vibe to the caribbean vibe. My impression is that there's an awful lot of armed drug boats on the east coast.


I have at least one better healed bud that is considering this, but with a medium to large sport fisherman.

What are the legalities of anchoring, etc. Costs?

don't ancor  out in the chanel
probly 50  boats grouped in the river downdown

some  are rented  bouys
some are  not

i   know one man  that lives on  his boat
he  is handi capped after  being shot in the head by  her  boyfriend
and  he  gets  some kind of check
he has been  doing it for  about 20  years  i know  of
he  has  obama stickers on  his car  so i dont talk to him anymore

wild  guess     500 people living on boats in the county
counting  the snow birds  [yankees going south for the winter and   back]

Well, that is the key, isn't it. That check. Graybeard's brother has a check coming in too.

Guess that's always been the real key anyway. How to get an income or own your means of support such that you don't have to cow tow to outside influences.

But then how to get to that status is probably the subject of a very long thread, LOL!  Been trying my whole life. Have failed thus far.

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

  Those of you who "pine" for the old pioneer days, when a man could find a piece of land and make a life for himself, have obviously failed to think about the other "joys" of those days, including:

   1.  Tuberculosis.
   2.  Typhus.
   3.  Diptheria.
   4.  Smallpox
   5.  Typhoid Fever.
   6.  Scarlet Fever.
   7.  Polio. 
   8.  Cholera
   9.  Dysentary.
   10. Death from the smallest infection (including nicking yourself with a razor, which is how Henry David Thoreau's brother died), due to the fact that there were zero anti-biotics.
   11.  Rotted teeth.

   These and other every day miseries killed hundreds of thousands of people in the pioneer days.  So, please, spare me romantic thoughts about those olden times, in which none of us actually lived. :-)

  Best,

  Mannyrock

[Dixie Dude]

Yes, the life expectancy in 1800 was about 40 or 50.  Many of these diseases can simply be avoided today or have been eliminated.  Cholera is from lack of cleanliness and sanitary disposal of human waste.  Washing hands eliminates some.  Covering your mouth, staying away from sick people, etc.  Boiling drinking water.  Cleaning and sterilizing your rasor.   Brushing and flossing your teeth as well as avoiding sugar and candy and processed food helps with your teeth.  Knowing what you know today, it wouldn't be as hard to avoid these diseases.  I think one can live simple today, live off the land, homestead, use firewood for heating and cooking.  One would need to barter or have something to sell to pay taxes or buy a few modern things for health or for easier use.  I think one could use a bare minimum of electricity for refrigeration or lights and produce it themselves through wind, solar, steam or water power.  One could easily grow all their vegetables.  One could have chickens, a small cow or goats for milk.  Even use a horse or mule for plowing, planting, or hauling. 

An older guy told me when I was young that he lived about 15 miles out of town growing up.  He said they had no electricity, used well water and firewood, and an outhouse.  He said his father would hitch up the mule and wagon before sunrise on Saturday morning.  He would load the wagon with produce from the farm or tie a hog they raised to the back of the wagon.  They would then come into town and arrive about mid-morning, sell their hog or produce.  He said his mother and father would then seperate.  His father would go get a haircut, and buy seed, or tools he would need around the farm.  His mother would go buy cloth for homemade clothes, or things she might need like sugar, salt, or flour.  They would then leave about mid afternoon and arrive home by dark.  He said they would do this almost every saturday unless it was raining or bad weather.  He said they smoked most of their meat or cured it in sugar or salt.  They canned and dried most of their vegetables except when eating fresh.  The had fruit and nut trees and about a 200 acre farm with woods.  Very little money.  This was in the 1920's and 30's in Alabama. 

[S & W 642]

Has anybody ever watched the story of Dick Pronenke. If you haven't you need to. You can google him and it will take you to his website where you can get his books or videos. It is very interesting to watch.

[Skunk]

Has anybody ever watched the story of Dick Pronenke.

Yes, I watched it. I saw it on PBS when they were having one of their money drives, thus they were showing their best programming. Truly outstanding documentary. Was trying to think of his name the other day so I could ask basically the same question you asked. Thanks for bringing him up. The videos of Dick Pronenke are highly recommended.

[Drilling Man]

Has anybody ever watched the story of Dick Pronenke.

Yes, I watched it. I saw it on PBS when they were having one of their money drives, thus they were showing their best programming. Truly outstanding documentary. Was trying to think of his name the other day so I could ask basically the same question you asked. Thanks for bringing him up. The videos of Dick Pronenke are highly recommended.

  I didn't live very far from Dick, for 25 years, and although he was one hell of a guy, he got a lot more help than the shows ect. let on...

  DM

[Skunk]

I didn't live very far from Dick, for 25 years, and although he was one hell of a guy, he got a lot more help than the shows ect. let on...

Interesting bit of inside info on that DM. Thanks for sharing that. Did you ever go over to his cabin or hunt with him or anything?

[Drilling Man]

I didn't live very far from Dick, for 25 years, and although he was one hell of a guy, he got a lot more help than the shows ect. let on...

Interesting bit of inside info on that DM. Thanks for sharing that. Did you ever go over to his cabin or hunt with him or anything?

  I did hunt in that area, but i did not go to his cabin, nor did i know him personally.  I was in the area to hunt, and i didn't want company any more than he did...  lol

  Folks use to go in and help him with firewood, and also send food ect. into him.  Those days flying into a place like that was no big deal, unlike it is today...

  DM

[flmason]

Dear Guys,

  Those of you who "pine" for the old pioneer days, when a man could find a piece of land and make a life for himself, have obviously failed to think about the other "joys" of those days, including:

   1.  Tuberculosis.
   2.  Typhus.
   3.  Diptheria.
   4.  Smallpox
   5.  Typhoid Fever.
   6.  Scarlet Fever.
   7.  Polio. 
   8.  Cholera
   9.  Dysentary.
   10. Death from the smallest infection (including nicking yourself with a razor, which is how Henry David Thoreau's brother died), due to the fact that there were zero anti-biotics.
   11.  Rotted teeth.

   These and other every day miseries killed hundreds of thousands of people in the pioneer days.  So, please, spare me romantic thoughts about those olden times, in which none of us actually lived. :-)

  Best,

  Mannyrock

No I have thought of all that. Out houses and general lack of modern hygenic practices suck, LOL! I'm not romantic about it at all. But as an alternative to being homeless in a city, given the skills, I'd rather do the wood than say skid row, Los Angeles.

Trust me, I put wealthy, autonomous life on the top of the heap. But self sustaining agrarian or hunting is another alternative. Though admittedly, not as nice and independently wealthy, for sure.

No romance here at all.