Author Topic: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS  (Read 2391 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2009, 09:03:10 AM »
fantastic
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2009, 09:07:35 AM »
Dude you are the only one I have ever run into on the internet who does not think typing in caps is rude, It is consider by about 99.9999999% of all people on the web that typing in caps is the same as shouting, SHOUTING! Can you understand that? If you can't see your words well adjust your computer to show larger print.

 Your entire post makes absolutly no sense, What are you wanting to know?  I am retired Military so yes I would stand up for that institution.  Are you saying I am a socialist because I served my country?    Why do you consider these socialist programs?
Badnews Bob
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2009, 09:15:59 AM »
Dude you are the only one I have ever run into on the internet who does not think typing in caps is rude, It is consider by about 99.9999999% of all people on the web that typing in caps is the same as shouting, SHOUTING! Can you understand that? If you can't see your words well adjust your computer to show larger print.

 Your entire post makes absolutly no sense, What are you wanting to know?  I am retired Military so yes I would stand up for that institution.  Are you saying I am a socialist because I served my country?    Why do you consider these socialist programs?
I tried to get the conversation transfered to the under utilized chat program here.  We were posting at the same time.  He responded that he was done with this discussion.  I'm afraid you may never get an answer to your questions...

I think he made a mistake by mentioning the military because it evokes strong emotions and it doesn't fit the type of social program spending that his argument is trying to promote.  It just muddied the water so to speak.  After all, there is that whole, "... provide for the common defense" thing in the constitution.  There is no, "provide for the common healthcare or unemployment benefits."  I bet when he was writing it he was trying to list government spending that generally anti-government readers would support.  It was a stretch.

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2009, 09:27:15 AM »
...  It was a stretch.

Kind of the way I handle taffy, but without the sugar.

Offline ms

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2009, 10:02:08 AM »
Dude you are the only one I have ever run into on the internet who does not think typing in caps is rude, It is consider by about 99.9999999% of all people on the web that typing in caps is the same as shouting, SHOUTING! Can you understand that? If you can't see your words well adjust your computer to show larger print.

 Your entire post makes absolutly no sense, What are you wanting to know?  I am retired Military so yes I would stand up for that institution.  Are you saying I am a socialist because I served my country?    Why do you consider these socialist programs?
The military runs off tax money it makes it a socialist program.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2009, 10:11:17 AM »
socialist means the Govt. owns production and distribution of goods . Like GM now . Like they want to do with banking and health care . The military is not a product it is a collective service with out profit.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2009, 10:18:00 AM »
well if you like socialism so well johny...just move to one..find a successful one an move to it..
 have you found the one you like real well yet..some call them selves socialist but really 
 are run by a few power mongers ,,...don t you try an have any ambition other than through ,,skill of climbing the power ladder in your so called socialist gov t...
  you mentioned social security,,which im on...run properly it was an effort to help folks pay for necessities during thier working life,,that they would have in days when they were too old to work much...thats not socialism as i define it...in fact true socialism,,is a pipe dream of utopia...but unfortunately ,,is just a seed bed for those
 particular type individual who are looking for power an want ultimitly to be the boss....thats the final phase of the socialist gov t ,,ive seen in history..at that point its still called socialism but is more like an dictatorship.. the people end up living with the ominous hammer ready to smack them down should they
show that they march to a different drum..kinda  remind me of humans trying to evolve into ants,,with no individual goals  an ambitions permitted......slim
johny you ask the question of people who have seen the dark side of socialism,,an want no part of it..

Offline billy_56081

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2009, 11:24:16 AM »
Hey Dukk, maybe Jonny will get your email adress and then he can stalk you too. If he wants to lie like all libs do I can forward the dozens of emails he sent me. I had A LOT of fun answering his emails.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline ms

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2009, 11:43:48 AM »
socialist means the Govt. owns production and distribution of goods . Like GM now . Like they want to do with banking and health care . The military is not a product it is a collective service with out profit.
Glad I got my rubber boots on your full of it. Medicare runs off tax dollars just like the military.

Offline powderman

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2009, 03:00:51 PM »
NCSURVEYOR. Thank you Sir for explaing that. I thought my post was self explainatory but forgot I was posting to johny c. POWDERMAN.  :D :D
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Offline jimster

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2009, 04:20:17 PM »
Well getting back to the original question and post, of all the ones you mentioned "military, public education, medicare, medicaid, social security, unemployment insurance...all socialist institutions already in place in the U.S."

I would have to say only one is a good program that works if we let it.....the military. 

The rest are busted and broke and regulated to the point where it's a nightmare.  Even somehow education got to the fed level instead of just the States...wow that worked out great huh? 

So your point is what?  Stack up some more programs.  I'm missing something maybe, I'm not sure I understand the logic there.
Let's keep the military.   

Jim

Offline ironglow

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2009, 12:40:59 AM »
  And every time politiucians try to run any facet of the military ..they screw things up !

   Johnnie;
      If you think Socialism is any good..just review nations that have tried to operate under strong Socialist government
   
 1) Soviet Union

 2) Castro's Cuba

 3) Communist China

 4) Eastern Europe under  the Soviets

 5) Pol Pot's Cambodia

 6)The Weimar "Republic"

 7) Myanmar

 8) Nazi Germany


    If you think those were/are some kind of Utopia, there are some guys sleeping under the bridge who would enjoy some of what you're smoking ! ;)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Mikey

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2009, 01:34:50 AM »
johnnyc:  ummmm, I think you started off on the wrong foot.  None of those you mentioned are really socialist institutions but some could easily be aspects of socialism. 

The military is not socialist - never was, never will be.  The military remains the military regardless of governmental type or style.  You have no choice in the military.  It is, in effect, a complete and total dictatorship.  It is not socialist.

Public education - could easily be one aspect of socialism certainly if carried out on the basis of faulty tenets or used to deny truth.

Medicare, Medicaid, Maternal and Child Health - all aspects of socialism but not quite socialized medicine; too much individual choice still available.  To have socialized medicine there must be only one gov't run program with no other choice available to any citizen.  But, your taxes pay into those programs under the social security administration which means that you are due the benefits from that/those programs(s) if you so choose.  For example - my father was a physician and railed against Medicare and Medicaid when they came out - socialized medicine he called them as they capped the limits for which physicians could charge for a service but when he became hospitalized in his elder years he was grateful for Medicare paying his hospital bills.  Go figure.....  Medicaid is socialized medicine because taxpayers pay for it but non-taxpayers use it (mostly).

Social Security:  another aspect of socialism if participation is mandated (as it is I believe but may not be) and no benefits received.  This program becomes truly socialistic when participation is mandated but benefits go to only one aspect of society.  Medicaid is socialized medicine - only those within a certain economic category can receive benefits but all who collect paychecks must pay into it.  Most can collect ss when they chose but only some can benefit from Medicaid.  Social Security was conceived to provide assistance when needed but quickly became an aspect of a retirement portfolio when it was never designed for that and because so incredibly much $ was coming into the SS fund the democraps added on the Medicare, Medicaid and Child and Maternal Health programs (Titles 4, 18 and 19 under the Social Security Act).  If obama wants to fix health care let him try and fix Medicaid first. 

Unemployment - you pay for and if necessary you can benefit from it.

My pet peeve is the public education program which strays so far from the truth and applies such liberal interpretations as to be libertine, and unsupportive of a democracy or a free economy.  My next pet peeve is a stinkin', lyin', untrustworthy government and its supportive, lyin', deceivin' press that should both be booted the hell out.  jmtcw.

Offline ironglow

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2009, 02:28:37 PM »
  When I was in the military..I didn't consider it Socialist !  ;) :D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline magooch

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2009, 03:59:29 PM »
Let us hope that the defence of our country doesn't depend on a socialist type organization.  There may be certain aspects of the military that are necessarily comunnal, but that hardly makes it a den of socialism in the vein that socialism is practiced by socialists.

As a matter of practicality, police, firefighters and such must be provided by a collective effort.

Social Security and Medicare are definitely social type programs and so is Medicaid.  All of these programs are ultimately destined to fail, or be adjusted to where they are so unfair that they will fall out of acceptance.

Obama and his Dumbycrat Congress believe that our entire healthcare sysgtem is destined to fail, or become so expensive that only the elite and government employees will have it.

The solution is that we can all work for the guvmint; then we'll all be fine as frog hair.  Hey, hasn't that already been tried?  I think it's called communism, or something like that.

Folks, it's like physics; try as you might, you can't change certain natural laws.  It is the nature of pure democracy, or representative democracy. that it will be crushed by it's own weight when the masses finally demand too much.  We're dangerously close to that.

Don't take any of that as though I would suggest any other form of society.  Democracy in any form is better than anything else, but it has a certain life span.
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Offline Matt

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2009, 06:48:43 AM »
RUDE IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER. IT ISN'T RUDE IF I DON'T MEAN IT TO BE AND I TRULY DON'T. RUDE IS HOW SOME OF YOU REPLY TO OTHERS- THOSE STATEMENTS ARE MEANT TO BE RUDE.  SO PLEASE ADDRESS THEM AS WELL- THANK YOU.

How about this... You make one more post in all caps and it will be your last on GBO... I consider it to be rude and you will stop now.

Your question has been addressed by several members in a manner that constitutes reasonable debate of the subject. They also responded with questions that in a debate would be answered as they help to explain the position that you have taken… which by the way you have yet to clarify or elaborate on. By refusing to answer these questions it seems that your purpose was not to incite debate, but rather stir the pot and garner negative responses from those amongst us who know nothing else.

I also think that the Military should be removed from your list as the money received by those enlisted is earned and considered payment for services rendered. The Military is one of the few things that the government is supposed to provide us as citizens.
So now continue your debate by answering the reasonable questions directed to you and then redirect if you like. But if all you want to do is start crap I suggest you stop.

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
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Offline JonnyC

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2009, 08:21:16 AM »
Matt -pm sent
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2009, 08:33:32 AM »
I've never noticed the need for Jonny to use caps in the dozens of emails he sent me. I hope all is well.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Casull

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2009, 11:16:42 AM »
Quote
How about this... You make one more post in all caps and it will be your last on GBO... I consider it to be rude and you will stop now.

Can you say "bitch slapped"?   ;D
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2009, 02:04:42 AM »
MS seems you got your boots on your head , that's the definition of socialism . Now if you want to change the definition of the words then let us know . If not then use the correct word. Or you will win the BS award
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Matt

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2009, 06:30:07 AM »
JonnyC is no longer with us as he decided he would rather be banned.

Matt

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline ms

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2009, 07:09:50 AM »
THE BRANCH I WAS OR WASN'T IN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION.

I TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE I DO- NO OTHER REASON THAN IT'S EASIER FOR ME TO READ.
It's sad the guy had a hard time seeing.

Offline Casull

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2009, 07:26:26 AM »
Quote
It's sad the guy had a hard time seeing.

 ::)
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2009, 07:31:13 AM »
why is it sad ? he made a choice . Don't worry someone will jump in and fill his spot .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline billy_56081

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2009, 07:46:32 AM »
In the dozens of harassing emails he sent me he typed fine with no caps. Unless this eye this was very recent.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2009, 11:47:11 AM »
Sorry you had to do that Matt.  I think we asked him fairly not to be that way thou, So he asked for it.
Badnews Bob
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2009, 12:53:39 PM »
You know, back to JonnyC's original post.  The military is not socialist.  All nations have used the military to defend themselves regardless of the type of economic or political power in place. 

Public School.  Not necessary.  That is why "Sunday School" was started in the early 1800's to educate the kids at church in the basics.  I remember in the 1980's that 4 or 5 of the existing Supreme Court judges were home schooled.  The more the Feds control the schools, the more they have become "dumb downed".  In 1890, 80% of the American people were functionally literate.  In 1980 it was more like 70%.  This ment the person knew how to read and understand a newspaper, balance a checkbook, among the few simple things.  In WWII, the average education of the average soldier or sailor was 8th grade.  At that time high school was like college.  There were a lot of church schools, home school, and a few public schools back then.  Most of the early colleges and universities were started by churches.  Brown as well as Wake Forest were Baptist.  Auburn University was Methodist.  Harvard was started by the Puritans. 

We did fine without Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for 150 years.  With the breakdown of family and churches, we acquired a "need" for these institutions.  Japan, Hong Kong, and Taiwan get by without these.  They have savings and investments as well as charities for the downtrodden.  The average Japanese and Chinese save 25% of their income for retirement or disability.  We also have insurance that people can buy.  Problem is, people were lazy and started depending on someone else like Big Brother to take care of them.  How do you think all the charities got started before government stepped in. 

If we had a lot less tax, and people people saved and bought their own insurance with the money they saved in taxes, we wouldn't need the government except for military defence, roads, bridges, and such.  But we as a nation have become lazy, complacent, and dependent.  The more power you give big brother the more he takes. 

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2009, 01:04:23 PM »
Another thing to consider.  We have been operating under a thing called "Welfare Capitalism".  The government didn't tell you want to do.  They allowed you to see any doctor that accepted Medicare and Medicaid.  They also didn't require the doctors to accept it if they didn't want to.  The people and doctors had choices.  Public schools used to be operated by the "Local Community" and taught what their community wanted taught.  Now it is mandated education from the State and Feds if you receive Fed money. 

Offline BBF

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2009, 06:53:00 PM »
Dixie:
If I had written half the critique of yours, someone would have blown a blood vessel ;D
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Offline chucky52

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Re: THOSE AGAINST SOCIALIST INSTITUTIONS
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2009, 07:06:17 PM »
I'm holding three fingers up behind my back. Can anyone actually tell me how many fingers I have or is this as  dumb a question as the one opening this thread. Seriously now, how many total fingers do I have and no more than two guesses?