New Respect for the old 30-30

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Shootall, thanks, I had my .30-30 shot in a bit high at one hundred, but the amout of animal covered by the bead surprised me after years of shooting scopes.

[SHOOTALL]

I admit up front a scope is better on long shots if its set up right. That said an experinced man with rifle sights can hold his own and in adverse conditiond or up close may have the edge . My XP-100 had Iron Sight sights , at 200 meters a ram set on top so i learned to aling the light between the rear sight and blade with the back leg , it worked great .

[Dee]

I nail 1 gallon water jugs (milk jugs filled with water) time after time laying them on their side and shooting at their 7" square bottoms at 285 yards.

Dee, I used to nail metallic rams time after time at 220 yards with my .44 S&W M29 (with open sights - eyes were better back then).  That however, did not make it a long range deer gun.

I did the same thing at 100 yards with a 1911 in 45acp for years. Now! What is your point?

[Casull]

I did the same thing at 100 yards with a 1911 in 45acp for years. Now! What is your point?

I think you just made it for me.   

[Swampman]

"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."

Calvin Rutstrum

"Gun lovers have their own guns and it is not well to argue with them. For many years I carried restocked Springfields, Mausers and others. Now I carry a 30-30 Winchester carbine with sling. The much improved cartridge in this weapon will stop a moose or a bear without trouble. The gun is small, light, has good balance for carrying, and is convenient. For safety the sling is looped around a thwart in a canoe and around a cross bar or a lash rope on a dog sled."

Calvin Rutstrum

[Swampman]

I love the .30-30, I can't live without one.

[nomosendero]

I love the .30-30, I can't live without one.

Hmmm, strange 

There is no gun that I can't live without, sounds like some sort of personal problem that you have! There are just too many choices of good guns & cartridges.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Swampman, who is Rutstrum?

[Swampman]

http://people.mnhs.org/authors/biog_detail.cfm?PersonID=Ruts338

[Brithunter]

Hmmmm it's noticable here that everyone is just considering lever actions and whilst they may be the "Classic" configuration not all 30-30 chambered rifles ARE lever actions. Winchester and Savage made bolt actions, I am not sure if Savage offered the 99 in 30-30 but that's a lever as well, but what about the strong single shots offered in it and some Europeans makers offered the 30-30 in bolt actions.

I have an English made bolt action chambered in 30-30 in which I load the 130 grain Hornady bullet to 2800 fps with excellent accuracy. If I do my part right groups of 5/8" are not uncommon  now 200 yard shots are not commone where I usually hunt but it would not be a problem if one came up nor even futher really. The cartidge so loaded would not lack the precision nor the power for such shots.

I like the 30-30 as it's actually a very effcient cartridge  beign econimical on powder usage and with a 1lb tub costing over $50 USD here that can be important.

[Coyote Hunter]

So when you're getting set up for that 320 yard shot on the caribou if you could have either that 30-30 or your .338 which one would you rather have...

For me, neither.  I’ll take my .257 Roberts, 7mm RM, .308 Win or .30-06 or even the .300 WM, although anything over a 7mm-08 is significantly more then necessary.

[Coyote Hunter]

While I won't be taking any 320 yards shots, my .30-30 is going along on the Wyoming antelopw hunt in a couple weeks.  Had it at the range yseterday and decided I'd use my 170g Parition RN loads, printing 3"  high at 100 yards (100 yards is point of maximum rise, -3" at over 210 yards).

Any doe antelope inside 250 yards and offering a standing broadside shot will be in extreme danger.

[Swampman]

So when you're getting set up for that 320 yard shot on the caribou if you could have either that 30-30 or your .338 which one would you rather have...

For me, neither.  I’ll take my .257 Roberts, 7mm RM, .308 Win or .30-06 or even the .300 WM, although anything over a 7mm-08 is significantly more then necessary.

I won't take a 320 yard shot with anything, but I agree the .338 is way too much for most anything in NA IMO.

[Graybeard]

Hmmmm it's noticable here that everyone is just considering lever actions and whilst they may be the "Classic" configuration not all 30-30 chambered rifles ARE lever actions.

True, true. My ONLY .30-30 is a single shot an old H&R with full "mannlicher" style fore end that was my best friend's at the time of his death and I ended up with it after he died. I'd sure not try to shoot deer with it all that far away what with it being iron sights and all but I have used it to take prairie dogs out to 150 yards in front of witnesses from this site at GBO PD Shoot Numer One.

The only others I've owned were a Marlin-Glenfield and a pre 64 Model 94 Winchester many many long years ago. I never took either of them hunting either.

[Coyote Hunter]

I won't take a 320 yard shot with anything, but I agree the .338 is way too much for most anything in NA IMO.

320 yards is a chip shot for a lot of people. For myself, I rarely shoot at anything less than 400 yards any more unless I’m doing load development or checking a scope.  Clay pigeons on the 400 yards berm are a lot of fun and even my daughters, who don’t shoot much, can hit them.

As far as the .338, I disagree that it is “way too much for most anything in NA”.  While there is no doubt in my mind that I could take a moose or griz with my .300 WM, a chance to hunt either will likely result in my getting a .338 WM or a .375 Ruger.  In my limited experience I’ve found there is a noticeable difference in thump delivered as you go up in caliber and bullet weight. 

A friend took a moose with his 7mm RM and ended up emptying the rifle with the moose dropping at his feet.  A .300 WM would probably have been a better choice but I have no doubt a .338 mag of some sort would have been better yet.  And if it comes to stopping a charge by a griz I’ll take the .338 over smaller every time.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  When I hear some one say, the 300 or 338 is way too much for anything in NA, the  first question to my mine is, what has this person hunted, where, how often, under what conditions etc. Such material often comes from whitetail hunters, or folks like Jack O/Connor who only did his hunting with guides and someone else paying the bill. So success was not important, because next year he would have another freebe and someone new to show him what to shoot. 

[Sourdough]

DkKiller:  To answer your question.  For a 350 yard shot I'll keep my .338 Win Mag.  The .338 WM will reach out way beyond 350 yards.  I've shot and killed Moose out to over 500 yards with it.

[Graybeard]

What do you have to substantiate that allegation? I believe O'Conner hunted before the time when writer's hunts were all free paid for by magazine advertisers. While he did a LOT of hunting with guides by no means were all his hunts such.

I seriously doubt tho any of the modern day rag writers have ever paid for a hunt or seen a product they didn't like. Each product is better than all before it just cuz the rag's advertisers provided it free and paid for the hunt. I do agree products are better today than long ago in general but for sure not all things I test pass muster. I often comment negatively on things I use.

When I hear some one say, the 300 or 338 is way too much for anything in NA, the  first question to my mine is, what has this person hunted, where, how often, under what conditions etc. Such material often comes from whitetail hunters, or folks like Jack O/Connor who only did his hunting with guides and someone else paying the bill. So success was not important, because next year he would have another freebe and someone new to show him what to shoot.

[Sourdough]

I own one .338/378 Weatherby, three .338WinMags, two .350RemMags, and five 30-06s.  The 30-06s will kill anything the others will, granted.  But there are times and circumstances where the bigger guns do a better job.  That's why I use them.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Graybeard, After reading O'Connor's bio. I am sure he did some deer hunting on his own and maybe some sheep in old Mexico. But even there there was always the note that he had a Mexican  cowboy rented for horses and because he knew the country. It has been a while since I read the book, but the author said O'Co. had a good deal with Outdoor Life as they paid for his hunts to the far north and other spots. He did say Jack was as thrifty with their money as his, in trying to get the most for their $. But he also knew that next yeat there would be another trip line up for him. Also, in the later hunts, he didn' t shoot much game according to the author. Most of his game was taken on the early 30 day hunts to the far north. I think when he hit the Yukon the first time, there was no limit on grizzlies. Reading the Bio. game me a good picture of JOC, and also a picture the author wanted the reader to have. O'C. was a good writer, but he was a writer first. I have always felt, he was maybe the greatest "writer" of the time. He made the average Joe relate to him. I base my remarks on what his biographer had to say about Jack's hunts and how they were paid for.  Another very well known writer, once told me the $ he made writing wasn't that great, but the freebies were something else. He had just turned down a free trip to B. C. I believe because his health would not let him do justice to the hunt.

[mrbigtexan]

i shoulda became a writer 

[mrbigtexan]

the 30-30 is a great round, but not always the perfect choice.

[kevinsmith5]

"So when you're getting set up for that 320 yard shot on the caribou if you could have either that 30-30 or your .338 which one would you rather have..."

MY 30-30 with MY loads....I've shot it and them a lot a lot.

But honestly it would be MY 45-70. I've shot it more.

[Swampman]

The 30-06s will kill anything the others will

Ditto

Almost all of my hunting is with my .30-30.  I use my .30-06 if I think I may get a long shot.

[Coyote Hunter]

The 30-06s will kill anything the others will

Ditto

Almost all of my hunting is with my .30-30.  I use my .30-06 if I think I may get a long shot.

In terms of energy and velocity, the .300 WM will do everything the .30-06 will do - but at 100-150 yards further down the road.

I have and use both - two .30-06's, actually - so no one can claim I'm biased against the .30-06.  Its a fine round, it just isn't the equal of the mags.

[Swampman]

And it doesn't need to be.

"Well here we are in a new decade, which seems to be marked by some outstanding numerals! Take for example 1906, the date year of the landmark cartridge of our time. The 1906 cartridge, which was a modification of the 1903 cartridge previously standard, is as near perfect as things of that sort can get. It is amusing (and slightly annoying) to see how the purchasers of sporting rifles seem to think that improved cartridge design is the answer to everything. I have long taught that if you can't do it with a 30-06, you probably can't do it. Every time some new brass powder bottle appears for sale, all sorts of people, qualified or otherwise, leap into the breach to explain how this new round is somehow better than what has gone before. Whether it is better or not must depend upon what it is designed to do, and it is effectively impossible to say that a shooter accomplished his purpose in the field with the new cartridge in a way that he could not have done with a 30-06. As it is said in Lindy Wisdom's verse: "There ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six." We do not know about the $700, but we do have confidence in the great 30-06 cartridge...........the winner and still king - the 30-06."

Jeff Cooper

[Coyote Hunter]

And it doesn't need to be.

"...........the winner and still king - the 30-06."

Jeff Cooper

Much as I respect the Colonel and his accomplishments, I don’t always agree with his conclusions.  If I had to let all my .30’s go but one the “winner” and “king” would be my .300 WM.  In the meantime I’ll use and enjoy my two .30-06s, the .308 Win and .30-30 and simply be satisfied that they are good cartridges within their limits.

[mechanic]

I kinda' thing many people have favorite rifles and rounds, and trying to convert them is foolish and unneeded.  I have developed my pets, and many of you would not choose them.  They work for me.  I shot two deer on the same day and took them to a processor.  One was a neck shot at close range, entry and exit about the same size.  We unloaded it first, and he asked what I shot with.  I told him a 243.  He proceeded to chew me out, saying I didn't have enough gun.

The second deer had a chest shot with a small entry and about a 3" inch exit.  He wanted to know who shot that one.  Said I should use their gun.  The same gun was used.  I loaded both my deer back in the truck and left him to his expert thoughts. 

I will say that a 30-30 is plenty gun for a white tail at reasonable ranges.  I've never hunted Moose and if I do, I will probably choose more gun.  Just me.  If I were to ever get to hunt brown bear, I will opt for the biggest baddest gun I can get ahold of.  Again just me.


To each his own.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  This morning I took my old Marlin 24 " out antelope hunting. I have three tags and so far hadn't filled any.,      I was waiting for the tourists to get out of the field. They did a super job of driving all the game on to private land, but I figured if I  kept looking, I will locate an animal on public ground. Sure enough about 9:15 I spotted a doe and buck crossing a public section. I got a good position and levered a 110 grain Speer Spire pt. over  a charge of IMR4198 into the chamber. I only had 2 rounds in the rifle as these are spire pts.  When the little rifle cracked, the doe fell in a true bang/flop!!! ;DShe fell in her tracks and never took a step. She was a nice yearling doe, my neighbor ask me for an antelope doe, it was nice to oblige.  This morn. was cold, and she was hanging in the shed before 10:00 skinned and cool......   With in its limits this is a fun little round.

[Dee]

Good shooting Wyo. Coyote Hunter it is nice to see that we are BACK to the original thread topic. The 3030!