Hern barrels

[Double D]

Does anyone know if Hern cast their barrel horizontally or vertically?

[KABAR2]

Good question, I would think they would tell someone if they asked.....

I'll drop them an email and see if they will say.

I would hope they cast vertically so any impurities are near the muzzle,

though I don't think that is as important when being cast around a steel tube.

being that the tube is in the mold they probably cast horizontally.....

I think I just answered the question.... the weight of the steel tube could shift downward

during casting if cast vertically  a bad idea.....

I will email and find out.

Allen <><

[GGaskill]

Vertical casting is much more of a pain although it produces a better product, in my opinion.  If you were going to cast with the liner in place, a vertical cast would be better since there would be less of an inclination of the liner to sag off center.  You always have the problem of the liner getting soft or melting when you cast in place without some kind of cooling system like Rodman's.

[Victor3]

I don't think that is as important when being cast around a steel tube.

 Hern casts a liner into their barrels? I didn't see any info about liners on their website.

[dan610324]

a steel liner of decent thickness wouldnt take any damage from the casting process as steel have a much higher melting temperature then cast iron or bronze .
but the liner should be coated with a thin layer of tin before bronze casting, dont know if thats neccessary when cast iron is used, the tin will cause the liner to be soldered in place and it can not be removed or change position

[KABAR2]

Vertical casting is much more of a pain although it produces a better product, in my opinion.  If you were going to cast with the liner in place, a vertical cast would be better since there would be less of an inclination of the liner to sag off center.  You always have the problem of the liner getting soft or melting when you cast in place without some kind of cooling system like Rodman's.

I don't think that is as important when being cast around a steel tube.

 Hern casts a liner into their barrels? I didn't see any info about liners on their website.

I have sent of the email with the following questions,

how cast vertical or horizontal?

seamless liner? how breeched? press fit and welded or shrunk and welded?

I'll let you know what they say,

I have thought about the issue of sag and if you had a steel rod welded to the breech it could help support the liner through the Casible knob into the molding sand,
after casting it could be cut off thus preventing sag.

 

[thelionspaw]

If you want to read some interesting background on Hern, google, "Hern Foundry OSHA" and you will know why I bought a Hern barrel.  I dislike abuse of authority.

rc

[KABAR2]

my first experience was with a friend's Hern cannon back in 1974 purchased on a steel carriage from Dixie Gun Works, 

here is the email I received back form Joel Brown,


Hi Allen,
 
Thanks for your interest in Hern Cannon Barrels. We have been making cannon barrels for over thirty years and would love the opportunity to make one for you.
 
1)    All Hern Barrels have cast-in-place steel liners. Our full scale barrels, such as 1841 Six Pounder, 10-Pdr Parrott Rifle, 20-Pdr Parrott Rifle, 1857 Napoleon, and 3" Ordnance Rifle are made with 1/2" Wall DOM (Drawn over Mandrel) Tubing and have a press-fit and welded breech plug. DOM Liners have the most consistent bore diameter and are stronger than HFS Tubing.
 
2)    Our barrels are cast in a horizontal flask. The front of the liner is held in a core-print in the mold, and the rear of the liner is centered in the mold by rows of welded spacers called chaplets. This prevents any shift in the liner during the casting process. The liner is shotblasted prior to attachment of the chaplets and fitting of the breech plug to remove any oxides and to promote bonding of the iron with the liner.
 
Please feel free to call me at 800-228-7794 if you have any other questions.
 
Best Regards,
 
Joel Brown

[Evil Dog]

I have no complaints with my half-scale Napoleon barren from Hern.

[Victor3]

my first experience was with a friend's Hern cannon back in 1974 purchased on a steel carriage from Dixie Gun Works, 

here is the email I received back form Joel Brown,


Hi Allen,
 
Thanks for your interest in Hern Cannon Barrels. We have been making cannon barrels for over thirty years and would love the opportunity to make one for you.
 
1)    All Hern Barrels have cast-in-place steel liners. Our full scale barrels, such as 1841 Six Pounder, 10-Pdr Parrott Rifle, 20-Pdr Parrott Rifle, 1857 Napoleon, and 3" Ordnance Rifle are made with 1/2" Wall DOM (Drawn over Mandrel) Tubing and have a press-fit and welded breech plug. DOM Liners have the most consistent bore diameter and are stronger than HFS Tubing.
 
2)    Our barrels are cast in a horizontal flask. The front of the liner is held in a core-print in the mold, and the rear of the liner is centered in the mold by rows of welded spacers called chaplets. This prevents any shift in the liner during the casting process. The liner is shotblasted prior to attachment of the chaplets and fitting of the breech plug to remove any oxides and to promote bonding of the iron with the liner.
 
Please feel free to call me at 800-228-7794 if you have any other questions.
 
Best Regards,
 
Joel Brown

 In that case, their little English swivel gun looks like a pretty good deal

 We might could look into puting together a group buy to get the "10 or more" rate. Maybe they'd do us a special run with a 'GBO crown' cast in

[Backswampcub]

          I believe those little english swivel guns come unbored. I am interested in one of them anyways. just not sure how to bore it.

[KABAR2]

          I believe those little english swivel guns come unbored. I am interested in one of them anyways. just not sure how to bore it.

I would think an inch at a time.........

[RocklockI]

they have two swivel guns , one unbored with a monkeytail and one listed at 90lbs ..... i really like the larger 90 lb gun .

grasshopper carriage would be sweet .

[Backswampcub]

      I am aware of the pace at which I would have to bore it. I was refering to my lack of a lathe. Guess with that monkey tail it would be difficult to get it in the lathe.  I knew of the second one but always liked the little one.

[KABAR2]

I'm sorry I was joking it was a bad one at that....

[Backswampcub]

    No it was funny. I am still curious how to bore a barrel accurately without a lathe. I guess one would have to set it up in a drill press and carefully drill it.

[thelionspaw]

It would be simpler to put a tail on the other one. No?  Why not take the path of least resistance? I have the 1.75 Hern English swivel. Works for me!

rc









Protect "Freedom of Speech"; that way we can identify the idiots.

[KABAR2]

    No it was funny. I am still curious how to bore a barrel accurately without a lathe. I guess one would have to set it up in a drill press and carefully drill it.

If I was doing it I would set the cannon vertically in a frame upside down, mount an electric motor on a slide at the base of the frame, the
  weight of the cannon should be enough to move it down as the bit cuts, you may have to have a counter weight if the bit binds,
 a shield should be placed over the motor so chips don't fall into the windings, don't forget a stop so the motor does not cut all the way through the breech.
should not be that difficult to build. the main thing is making sure your drill and cannon are well centered.


Allen <><

 

[RocklockI]

    No it was funny. I am still curious how to bore a barrel accurately without a lathe. I guess one would have to set it up in a drill press and carefully drill it.

If I was doing it I would set the cannon vertically in a frame upside down, mount an electric motor on a slide at the base of the frame, the
  weight of the cannon should be enough to move it down as the bit cuts, you may have to have a counter weight if the bit binds,
 a shield should be placed over the motor so chips don't fall into the windings, don't forget a stop so the motor does not cut all the way through the breech.
should not be that difficult to build. the main thing is making sure your drill and cannon are well centered.


Allen <><

yep that will  work   ive seen them (olden days)done that way in books and it would be kinda neat to copy .....

do you have access to  a bridgeport ?

 

[BoomLover]

VOE here...(Voice of Experience) when using a drill press to bore, two hard-to-control variable happen. 1) Securing the barrel to prevent any movement, wobble, shimmying, ect. 2) securing the bit, or boring tool in the chuck tight enough to prevent the bit from occilating out of the eliptical. You also have to worry if your bit, or boring tool is straight, or if the chuck hasn't been twisted out of true. Unless, of course, your a machinist and accustomed to such drill press antics! BoomLover

[RocklockI]

how about chucking up the bit and moving in on the tail stock with the tube that fits around 2/3's 3/4' of the cannon dia......?

maybe with a dog on it for support ? the barrel not the tube fixture , like a tube that fits over over the monkey tail with a slot for it . step it down with comercial couplings and stick it into the tail stock with a chuck .

ymmv

[dan610324]

why use an electric motor ??   
4 real horsepower will do 

[thelionspaw]

Time out!

So you will wind-up with a bore in a piece of cast iron. Right?  Then what?  Duh!  So if you have to configure a yoke (which you will), make a monkey tail too. No?

I've seen historical examples of removeable tillers for swivels.

If you use the Hern bored barrel, you can interchange it with any variety of beds, as long as it doesn't have the permanent tiller.

rc


Protect "Freedom of Speech", so we can tell who the idiots are.

[RocklockI]

FWIT worth , there was a cannon for sale at the mont. shoot . it was made from a bolt that is used to hold down water driven turbins huuumongauos . pluse they are pre bored as they contian nitrogen inside them .

after they are touqued to ...whatever spec ,they let the gas escape from  the head of the bolt and it gets warmer and swells to some ...never come out condition .

it was a swivel gun w/ detatchable wooden monkey tail and a socket castable . and was mounted on a ....home made carriage . it probably was an accurate carriage of something on a river boat in 1831 .

the turning was good welded trunions .

the guys brother worked at a power plant ....and some of these bolts got lost along the way .

[KABAR2]

I for one like Swivel guns..........
 

This was my first cannon I bought it in 1983 and had it until 2001 sorry old photo no powder can

it came with the tiller, I built the mahogany display base and I had an old fancy part octagon post out of

an old barn which I iron banded and would set into the ground to shoot from, it was a fun little gun,

and always grew a crowd.

[RocklockI]

thats a darn nice swivel gun .