Hornady XTP vrs. XTP Mag?

[flmason]

Hi All,
   Was studying Hornady's sabot bullet combos. Seems they use the XTP-MAG in theirs... but why?

Their own performance chart for XTP and XTP-MAGs show the performance range by velocity for the XTP's to be more in line with muzzleloader velocities.

Given nothing but the data I'd be choosing the 250 or 300 gr. XTP rather than the XTP Mags.

Anyone know anything?

Here's the chart data: http://www.hornady.com/media/2006catalog/Hornady_Bullets_Handgun.pdf

[PA-Joe]

The XTPs are designed for pistols and revolvers. The XTP Mags are designed for muzzleloaders and rifles.

[alsaqr]

I have used the 240 grain .430 XTP to kill about 20 deer and dozens of hogs.  Most of those animals bang flopped or near bang flopped.  Not one animal was lost.   I have never used the .451 XTP Mag bullets on game.   

Last Saturday I killed a wild boar hog that weighed 274 pounds field dressed.  Range was about 40 yards.  That hog was hit just behind the foreleg, a little high.  The bullet missed the heart and shredded the liver.  The hog went about 15 feet after being hit.  He was thrashing around on the ground and needed a coup de grace.  The bullet was the 240 grain .430 XTP backed by 110 grains of Goex Pinnacle 2F. 

[Two Bears]

You can use either one and the groups will stay the same. The deer will be just as dead.
I use the 300 grain and have both in my several boxes of bullets and have taken a couple truck loads of deer with them and can not tell a difference between them. You will have the same size entrance hole and exit hole.
I did have 1 bullet that stayed in a deer that traveled almost length wise which was a mag XTP and the mushroom was very good and it retained 90 some percent of its weight even after going through 3 ribs.

Happy hunting.

[deerjackie]

mags will crush easy is what i was told. i shoot xtp. deer at 100 yds dropped in its tracks.

[Tn Jim]

I was told this a while back and I suffer from CRS, so take it for what it's worth. The XTP was developed for the 45 ACP and 45 Colt, while the XTP Mag was developed for the 454 Casull. The Mag should be better suited for muzzle loader velocities.

[flmason]

I was told this a while back and I suffer from CRS, so take it for what it's worth. The XTP was developed for the 45 ACP and 45 Colt, while the XTP Mag was developed for the 454 Casull. The Mag should be better suited for muzzle loader velocities.

Interesting. The Hornady chart would've led me the other way since the effective velocity range for the Mags is, as you say along the lines of the Casull and to my limited knowledge the XTP seemed to have effective velocity range closer to the *downrange* velocities of muzzle loaders. (Maybe I'm missing something, to be sure.)

Have to ask as I honestly don't know. What's CRS?

[Casull]

Interesting. The Hornady chart would've led me the other way since the effective velocity range for the Mags is, as you say along the lines of the Casull and to my limited knowledge the XTP seemed to have effective velocity range closer to the *downrange* velocities of muzzle loaders. (Maybe I'm missing something, to be sure.)

The muzzle velocity of a warm Casull load is about the same as warm muzzleloader load (240 or 250 grain at about 2,000 fps or a little better). 

[Busta]

Have to ask as I honestly don't know. What's CRS?

Can't Remember Sh.....tuff!

[flmason]

Have to ask as I honestly don't know. What's CRS?

Can't Remember Sh.....tuff!

LOL! That flew right by me!

Thanks.

[Double 30]

 
I believe only the 45 XTP's have the mag/non mag designations. When I started inlining I wanted to use 44 Mag - 454 Casull level loads. My velocities max at 1600 fps with both the 250 and 300 gr non mag .45's and recovered specimens look great.
  A very nice thing to remember about muzzleloaders is that whatever game you hunt or velocity you desire , there is a bullet for you. For those of us who dont feel the need to pour 1/2 a can of powder down bore ( or cant afford to !) or are small statured , injured or hunt at modest ranges, a non mag XTP at 16-1700 fps is a dandy load.Hornady gives the non mag a very good low end expansion capability. This is useful as one of my max range criteria is based on the question of bullet expansion. In my experience , energy transfer is as important as the power of the load itself. I know that my 2 non mag loads ( 250 and 300 gr) are both way above their minimum expansion velocity at 200 yards ( 1006 and 1058 fps actual respectively) and the minimum for both is 800 fps. I believe , with its better low end expansion potential ( 800 fps nm vs 1100 fps mag) the non mag is probably the more versatile bullet.

[flmason]

 
I believe only the 45 XTP's have the mag/non mag designations. When I started inlining I wanted to use 44 Mag - 454 Casull level loads. My velocities max at 1600 fps with both the 250 and 300 gr non mag .45's and recovered specimens look great.
  A very nice thing to remember about muzzleloaders is that whatever game you hunt or velocity you desire , there is a bullet for you. For those of us who dont feel the need to pour 1/2 a can of powder down bore ( or cant afford to !) or are small statured , injured or hunt at modest ranges, a non mag XTP at 16-1700 fps is a dandy load.Hornady gives the non mag a very good low end expansion capability. This is useful as one of my max range criteria is based on the question of bullet expansion. In my experience , energy transfer is as important as the power of the load itself. I know that my 2 non mag loads ( 250 and 300 gr) are both way above their minimum expansion velocity at 200 yards ( 1006 and 1058 fps actual respectively) and the minimum for both is 800 fps. I believe , with its better low end expansion potential ( 800 fps nm vs 1100 fps mag) the non mag is probably the more versatile bullet.

Have to admit, won't see my rifle until tomorrow. It's sitting at the UPS Store now, LOL!

But... from all the charts I've been reading, etc. I'm not thinking I'll ever use more than 100 gr. of BP, Pyrodex of 777. (Bought some 777, so that'll be experiment #1.) So I'm with you, probably go with the 250 or 300 gr. XTP.

But to be honest, I'm eyeing some bullet molds too. I really don't want to be tied to sabots if I can get decent accuracy and energy without, and without serious leading. 

If I can come up with ballistics similar to .45-70 or .50-90 I'll be happy (though probably not quite the same, probably won't use as heavy slugs). I'm planning to stick to a 100-150 yards as max. range, so no real drive to go to 150 gr. loads. I'm figuring, "if it looks like a tough shot with the fixed sights or the 4x scope, then don't take the shot". I've got pretty conservative estimates of my ability, which is probably the real limiting factor.

Anyway, just trying to get a handle on what I think my "standard" loading is going to be, hence all the thrashing of these issues.

[Cuts Crooked]

Flmason,

In my Yukon I load the 250 gr XTP over 120 gr of 2F Goex. That's my "go too" load for that gun. That load shoots better than anything else I've tried. And it kills deer as good as anything I've ever used!

[saltysenior]

 too many choices and no place to test......bought a square plastic box [3''x5'']of hornady sabots.... it says 45 caliber   40-hp/xtp  ........it has 20 bullets and 20 cream colored plastic sleeves...the sleeve's bottom is hollowed in a concave shape, like the OLD poly patch....would these be an o.k. load for deer using 100 grs. of pellets in a c v a kodiak???

[Two Bears]

 too many choices and no place to test......bought a square plastic box [3''x5'']of hornady sabots.... it says 45 caliber   40-hp/xtp  ........it has 20 bullets and 20 cream colored plastic sleeves...the sleeve's bottom is hollowed in a concave shape, like the OLD poly patch....would these be an o.k. load for deer using 100 grs. of pellets in a c v a kodiak???

Yes, if you have a .45 cal muzzleloader.

[chefjeff]

I had troublr with the MAG xtp 300gr. keyholing. Shooting it out of a savage ml . 44gr. 5744 with the mmp sabots. Im thinking a diff. sabot might help. I settled on the 250gr. .452 xtp same load. Have harvested many bucks with that setup. most all complete pass thru but the bullets I did recover were beautifully shroomed.  good luck