Taurus 709 "Slim" for CCW...probably not...

[JJ79]

picked up one of the new Taurus 709's yesterday...  took it to the range today.  I sure wish I could give a positive report, as I like Taurus, and usually find them to be a whole lot of gun for the $$$.

but unfortunately, it was not a very good 1st date w/the new pistol...

fit/finish is fine...not amazing, but not bad.  gun is pretty loose, especially the barrel, but that really doesn't bother me, given the gun's intended use.  sights are good for a pistol this small (but really wish Taurus would get a clue, and start offering night-sights on their self-defense guns  )

accuracy was definitely acceptable, especially given the size of the gun...hit point of aim right out of the box.  trigger took some getting used to, but once I figured it out, I managed some decent groups.  the trigger is Taurus' single action w/2nd strike double action capability.  the single action pull is approx. 4 miles long...    smooth, but you almost think the gun is never going to fire...not bad once I got the hang of it though...take up about 3.75 miles of slack, and then press through till the trigger breaks (the actual break is very crisp, and feels nice...just wish it happened sooner)

recoil was a lot snappier than I expected, but this is a small, lightweight pistol, so I guess that's just the nature of the beast...it's definitely not a pistol you'd want to shoot all day though...

got through 3.5 mags, and then it started....  failed to extract the spent brass; slide locked open...NOT GOOD.  no tap, rack, bang here...nope...completely jammed!!!  if it were a self-defense scenario...I just got killed

had to pull slide back, lock it myself, push the 1/2 fed round back down, remove magazine, release slide, rack slide to eject jammed brass, re-insert mag, rack slide, fire....jammed again.  no, I am not kidding...

this happened at least once through almost every mag afterward...shot 120 rounds...lost count of how many times the gun failed to extract after about 8 occurences 

I tried everything...changed my grip...changed my trigger pull...even changed ammo.  got through a couple mags at one point once I changed my grip, but it started again shortly.

granted, ammo wasn't high quality (winchester white box & atlanta arms), but I'm having a hard time believing this many consecutive malfunctions is just ammo related.

gonna give this gun one more chance w/different ammo...if it doesn't work then, I am done with it...gonna send it back to Brazil where it belongs.

beware the 709 "Slim"...that "slim" in the name really means your chances of the gun actually firing when you need it to are "slim"...

-JJ

[williamlayton]

Not being a "T" fan, I am not suprised.
I am sorry of this sad experience for you however.
Perhaps, if you are particularly fond of the platform, it would be worth a trip too a good smith.
Except for Sig, and maybe that is bad, I don't expect out of the box performance from any. I always put lead down range before I make judgement.
I am in favor of, a Smith worth his salt, doing what he does and giving back a completely reliable roscoe.
Blessings

[JJ79]

Not being a "T" fan, I am not suprised.

it was a big surprise to me...have had great experiences w/Taurus until now...guess they just don't make'em like they used to...  :-)

[MAJORSDAD]

I worked at a large gun shop (12-15K guns a year) in Columbus, Ohio for almost 5 years and never thought much of the Taurus firearms. I was the warranty liason, and use to probably send 2-3 guns back a week. Not very impressive!

[JJ79]

got back to the range today... 2nd date w/the Taurus 709.

I think I may have figured out the feeding problem I was having on the 1st trip. switched ammo today...(last time used WWB 115gr) today I fed the 709 some American Eagle 115gr. shot the whole box w/out a single hiccup. went back to WWB and started having the malfunctions again by the 2nd mag... at least 1 per mag after that. bottom line = WWB DOES NOT FEED in my gun. will try some more AE & hopefully some Remington this weekend. if the gun continues to function I may forgive my previous doubts about the purchase 

also discovered I have a bad mag (the 709 comes w/2 mags)...slide consistently failed to lock open on the last shot with one of the mags...works fine w/the other.

interesting note: once the malfunctions started again, I compared some WWB casings to the AE casings...the extractor groove on the WWB is noticeably shallower than the AE. this could definitely be behind the feeding issues; just not much for that little extractor to grab on the WWB ammo. the AE ammo shot much cleaner as well, FWIW...and accuracy literally went out the window w/the WWB...it was all over the paper compared to the AE. guy next to me shooting some WWB thru his Kimber 1911 was having the same exact issues...FTE's and crappy accuracy. NO MORE WWB FOR ME!!! 

I'll try to post an update once I can shoot it some more...I really want this little pistol to work; it has the potential to be a great pocket gun...

-JJ

[Graybeard]

Just had, seen and heard of too many problems with Taurus guns. I don't think I'd trust my life to one and that's what you're doing with your CCW. None for me thanks.

[JJ79]

Just had, seen and heard of too many problems with Taurus guns. I don't think I'd trust my life to one and that's what you're doing with your CCW. None for me thanks.

I'm definitely not ready to carry it yet, but then, I wouldn't carry ANY gun I hadn't put at least 500-600 rnds thru...we'll see how it works out; I'm still willing to give it a chance at this point.

to be fair to Taurus, my dad had a very similar experience w/his S&W Nightguard!!?  light primer strikes straight out of the box...failed to fire several different types of ammo...  so much for the "fool-proof wheel-gun", huh?    I mean, if you can't trust S&W's tricked-out, top-notch carry gun, WHAT CAN YOU TRUST???    just don't think any of the manufacturers make guns like they used to, PERIOD...$$$ has become more important than a quality product, IMO...it's a shame too.

-JJ

[Brett]

These days it seems like quantity takes precedence over quality in most manufactured goods.  Which I don't quite understand.  I would think it would cost a lot more to handle a product 2 or 3 times in order to correct problems under warranty than it would to take just a little extra time to make sure the product was made properly the first time.   

But hey what do I know.  Guess that's why I'm a struggling finish carpenter just trying to make ends meet.

[JJ79]

got to shoot the 709 some more yesterday. I now have somewhere around 350 - 400 rounds through the gun.

got through a box of PMC 115gr just fine, along with a box of Federal...no extraction issues w/either, and only one failure to feed (with the Federal ammo).

I'm pretty much convinced that my problem was just the Winchester white-box ammo...starting to trust the gun now. another 100-150 rounds with no problems, and I'll spring for running some carry ammo through it...

another positive about the pistol; now that I've gotten used to the super-long trigger pull, it is extremely accurate for a pistol of this size...

will update again once I get to run the carry stuff through.  looks like I may owe Taurus an apology on this one...   


-JJ

[ronbow]

I too have just purchased the Taurus Slim. The gun carries extremely well in my pocket and is incredibly light. The safety is very accessible and easily flipped on/off. The trigger pull is looooooooooooong for the first round. Feeds fine with Rem JHP. This is my very close up carry gun which I bought after being confronted with roaming pit bulldogs on my property.

[mr.theman]

Buddy of mine bought the slim last week.  He put 150 rounds through it including WWbox and had 0 problems.  I put another 50 rounds down the tube for him this afternoon and had no problems.  I really like this little gun and am strongly considering picking one up for myself.  Gonna run another 4 or 5 hundred rounds down his and then feed it some defense rounds to see how she does but so far looks promising.

[coues2506]

JJ79 - did you clean and lube before your first range trip? little guns with little extractors like to be clean and lightly lubed.

[Bigeasy]

Shot a lot of WW white box in 45 acp thru 1911's w/o problem.

Larry

[williamlayton]

Ejectors--espically in small weapons--are subject to being the majority of mafunctions.
I have EVERY Ejector in all of my guns changed to Wilson and tuned. It would probably be just as good to have them tuned---but that is just me.
If you don't know how to bend/tune an ejector then take it to someone who does know how.
Now I have bent a number of ejectors and some worked and shome needed more guess work.
I have learnedto take it to a reliable Smith.
Short guns are tough too tune properly.
Blessings

[rybo]

Glad to see it appears to be an ammo issue & fairly easily corrected.

[Lt Smoke]

Years ago I had Deputies that carred several Taurus pistols as a duty weapon (we had to buy our own gun). Some worked well others not so. I traded into a 709 a couple of months ago and as of this writing have put in excess of 600 rnds through it with no failures. I also have a 441, 4" .44 special and it is a dream to carry and it is one of the most accurate revolvers I own. My earlier distain for Taurus is easing up a bit.

Smoke

[jw83]

Bought the 709 about 3 months ago, got it home took it apart and it had a lot of gunky white grease in it. Got her cleaned up and started shooting it, have about 500 rounds through it with no problems. Have shot 5 different kinds of ammo in it and it runs with it all. Overall been very pleased with it and it is extremely easy to carry, most of the time carry it in a iwb holster but it slips in a pocket pretty easy.

[mrussel]

These days it seems like quantity takes precedence over quality in most manufactured goods.  Which I don't quite understand.  I would think it would cost a lot more to handle a product 2 or 3 times in order to correct problems under warranty than it would to take just a little extra time to make sure the product was made properly the first time.   

But hey what do I know.  Guess that's why I'm a struggling finish carpenter just trying to make ends meet.

 That is probably true,but look at the advice everyone is giving him. Did anyone say "Call Taurus and make them fix it"? I keep seeing people,even on guns with awesome customer service and responsiveness from their warranty departments talking about how they have a problem and they sent it to a smith. While that WILL work,I would consider that a last resort if the factory wouldn't or couldn't fix the problem and I was stuck with the gun. I shouldn't HAVE to pay to fix something that should work out of the box,but at some point you just admit that the price of the gun is a sunk cost and pay what it takes to fix the problem if its something that can be fixed or go buy something designed by John Moses Browning if it cant. (It doesn't HAVE to be designed by him,but I would highly recommend it) The fact is however,most companies know that most people will live with a problem in a product,or may not even notice the problem,so they can get away with turning out poor quality merchandise. With a handgun,that can get someone killed,but apparently money is more important.