Author Topic: 44 mag load options (Read 2742 times)

Krooz · « **on:** August 20, 2009, 10:20:30 AM »

Well, after much consideration (and given the fact that I'm now unemployed) I've given up on my 45 Colt quest and decided to seriously tune my RB 44 mag for hunting. Years back I reloaded for it but gave up as I couldn't beat the Win USA 240 JSP accuracy. I mostly hunt deer with the occasional hog possible and try to limit shots at 75yds or less - 100yds if I have to. I've done a lot of surfing here and have seen a lot of opinions. Anyway, now that I have all the time I need, I'm trying to work with what I still have in my cabinet so I'm seeking recommendations - here's what I have...

* Hornaday 240 SWC lead (is this hardcast?)
* Hornady 240 HP/XTP
* Speer 240 GDSP
* Speer 240 GDHP
* Rem. 240 JSP
- Alliant Unique
- Alliant 2400
- Win 296

I'm thinking I'd like to go hardcast just to have one round to cover all the bases and would order those if there's a good recommendation as to a brand. The Hornady's I have are not GC if that matters - I think it does. I'm also not a guy that has to be shooting the "hottest" load either - rather something more tame but can still do the trick regarding penetration and accuracy. Also any tips on getting the most out of reloading the 44 would be appreciated - e.g. - should I use my RCBS set or get a separate LEE crimp like I do for my bottleneck cartridges? I know I have to work this out at the bench and the range but any advice to streamline things is appreciated.

Thanks!

Krooz

kynardsj · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2009, 11:06:10 AM »

Between 8 and 10 grains of Unique behind those lead bullets would be nice and it doesn't matter if it's hardcast or not. I'd check the Alliant website for the 2400 and the Hodgdon website for the Win 296 as it's the same as H110. You shouldn't have any problem working some good loads for your jacketed bullets. Good luck and good hunting.

Catfish · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2009, 11:32:25 AM »

My load of choice for deer is a 240 gr. Sierra bullet over a max. charge of Win. 296. The Hornadys are very accurate also, but I seem to get better terminal preformance from the Sierra`s. This load wil go end to end out to abt. 100 yrds. and does alot of damage on the way through.

buck460XVR · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2009, 01:43:14 PM »

I hunt with both the Hornady 240 XTPs and the Speer 240GDSP. Both shoot very well and hit hard loaded with 23.5 grains of H110/W296. Don't forget iffin you use the 296...... Magnum Primers(I use WLP good for both) and a heavy crimp.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2009, 06:06:18 PM »

I have used Unique with lead bullets with good results and 2400 with jacketed bullets with great results. It seems you have everything you need. For future purchases, Remington 240 grain can be bought in bulk for savings and bulk lead bullets are even cheaper.

Cheese

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2009, 12:16:13 AM »

If your unemployed why dont you peddle something else and pick up a cheap casting setup and a mold and make your own. For the price of a couple boxes of bullets you can make your bullets about for free if you scrounge some wheel weights and it will give you something to do while your layed off.

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2009, 12:23:28 AM »

Quote

* Hornaday 240 SWC lead (is this hardcast?)

No it's swaged and pretty much pure soft lead. Don't push fast or they'll lead like crazy. Keep them to around 900 fps and they'll do fine.

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:10:02 AM »

And when you are finished shooting those Hornady cast slugs with 8-10 gns of Unique there are any number of places where you can find harder cast 240-250 gn slugs for all your 44 work - check our links for cast bullet suppliers. In the interim, a Winchester load charge of 24 gns of WW296 under any of those 240 gn jacketed slugs should get you near 1400'/sec at about 38k cup pressures. Or anywhere from 18-22 gns of 2400 gets you a great load with any of those jacketed slugs. Have fun.....

Krooz · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2009, 08:21:38 AM »

Thanks for the responses.

I believe I'll work up loads for the XTPs and GDSPs to start with. I have enough vices right now so I'll pass on the new hobby of casting my own! Since the Hornady's are soft they will be set aside and I'll work up a plinking load for them sometime. Looking at hardcasts for later on - any opines on the Montana or Beartooth bullets? Maybe go with a 250 gr WFNGC for my future all around-do it-all load for deer/hogs.

Any advice on crimping or other accuracy related items?

Krooz

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2009, 06:10:36 PM »

I bet the 240 grain Gold Dot being a bonded bullet would work real well on hogs. I have found that I do not need maximun loads in the 44 Magnum. My favorite field loads are running at 1200 with a 240 or 250 grain bullet. One possibility would be to find a load you like using either 2400 or 296 with the two Speer bullets. Use the Gold Dot JHP when you need more expansion and the Gold Dot JSP for more penetration.

Ole Man Dan · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2009, 06:08:08 PM »

KROS;

Your right on the money by thinking of the 250 WFNGC. It's hard to beat for Deer,Hogs & ect...
(Shoot for the shoulders and break em down.)
I like hard cast because it generally behaves the same every time. Load em 1100 to 1200 FPS and expect that it will likely be a pass thru shot.
Load the soft swaged Hornadies to around 1000FPS and they will expand some. So what if they lead the barrel a little. Give the barrel a good cleaning after you shoot, it's not that big a deal.

Load your jacketed bullets a little faster (1200-1400 FPS) and shoot for the heart/lung area thru the rib cage and expect to see a few fist sized holes.

If you want to try Elk, Bear ect... try some 300 Gr. WFNGC at 1200 FPS and expect good results...

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2009, 01:15:05 AM »

if tougher the deer game is on the agenda like black bear or pigs and you want to use jacketed bullets id consider stepping up to a 300 grain bullet. Ive had good luck with the 300 xtps and sierras. I wont get into a big debate here but ive seen 240 grain hps fail on both pigs and bear. They just dont provide the penetration need a 100 percent of the time. You might get away with using them 50 times but then its going to come back and bite you. In my opinion a hard cast swc or lfn is the only proper projectile for a hunting handgun.

S.B. · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2009, 03:41:52 PM »

I agree with Bill on this, any swaged lead bullets aren't very hard, I always thought they were made of close to pure lead, also?
Steve

Krooz · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2009, 01:51:01 AM »

Well, hit the range yesterday for load comparisons. Squeezed off 6 each of Win USA Factory and my reloads with Hornady 240 HP/XTP, Speer 240 GDSP, Rem. 240 JSP (all over 23gr 296/mag primers). I was anal over trimming all cases to the same size, uniform roll crimp etc.

Once again, as I've run into before, the Win USA factory out performed. The XTPs and Rem JSP were next showing the most promise. Believe I'll repeat only bump up to 23.5 gr 296. May try some 2400 as well. I see some mention of crimp alternatives - is there that big of difference to warrant buying a separate profile or Lee FCD die?

I'm on a mission now to beat the factory load but hope I'm not chasing my tail. Once I get some 250gr WFNGC they will get my most effort for an all around load.

Krooz

S.B. · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2009, 02:23:30 AM »

Your load seems to be at or a little above maximum? Have you chronoed it yet? What do you plan on hunting with such a load? You never mentioned why you gave up on the .45 Colts? Were they from a Ruger handgun?
Steve

Krooz · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2009, 03:28:19 AM »

S.B. - $ were the primary reason for me forgoing the 45 Colt purchase. I wanted a Bisley Hunter version BAD for almost a year but now being unemployed I decided to live with my 44 mag Taurus RB. There's a Leupold-Gilmore dot on it now but I might eventually throw a low power crosshair on it (mostly deer hunting from a stand, occasional hog venture). I suppose I could sell it and make the switch but whenever I sell a gun I always end up wishing I'd held on to it (it has a very sweet/smooth trigger pull).

I know 23gr/296 is getting up there but I see 24gr referenced a lot so I planned to approach that. I don't have a chrony but the 23gr should be bumping around 1540 according to the Midway MAP. You got me thinking - I looked up the Win USA factory and it says 1180 at the muzzle. Maybe I should try some 2400 powder for all the bullets again and hold things in the 1200-1300fps range to see how they group....

Thanks

Krooz

S.B. · « **Reply #16 on:** September 15, 2009, 03:52:35 AM »

Krooz, welcome to the real world(finacially). I've been operating under much the same circumstances since the 2005 surgeries. I've been chastized here many times for my thoughts of buying American made products but, that's how I feel, if you think you'ld like a different shooting iron, you should of purchased an American made gun in the first place?
Even Linebaugh eludes to. it's not how much your gun can handle but, how much the cartridge can handle? Too much pressuer whether it's fired in a Ruger or Tauras doesn't make sence when it doing damage to your gun.
OK, you Ruger gurus let the flames, begin.
Steve

45454 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:33:30 AM »

Hi Steve

,
This is NO way, a flame on you.
It's base on my observations only.
My take on the "weak case" if you will,is how much metal is around the cartridge.
And,what type of steel,the heat treating etc determines the max it can handle.
Plus,if the chambers were made correctly.
And whether it's a 5 shot,or a six shot.
For my "weak case"; about 3-4 weeks ago,I was shooting my Uberti 45 Colt.
The loads were/are new Starline cases,with Triple7.All shot OK.(255gr)
Extraction for the 5 was good.Cases looked good.The sixth one,wouldn't extract.
Took the gun to the Honda.Had my cleaning set handy.
Removed the cylinder.Finally it came out.Examined the case.
The case was a body split.The 5 chambers measured at .485".Sixth one at .486".
With this model,I can't use warm loads.The max this gun can handle is around 900-950 FPS.
My Ruger BH chambers measures .483" for all 6.
So, yes, the Uberti chambers are oversized.
I can't find fault with Starline.
Steve,you have a good week.

Krooz,I might suggest the 270gr GDSP Speer.
That is,if your finances will allow it.
My Ruger Redhawk likes them.
Best of luck from here.

Krooz · « **Reply #18 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:41:51 AM »

S.B. - No offense and I know we're getting off topic a little, but where the heck did that come from? When I was considering getting a 45 colt it had nothing to do what-so-ever with my Taurus being foreign made - I was temporarily enamored by the 45 round and still am to some extent and the Ruger was my front runner to handle it - I wasn't interest in getting a 454 RB.

But, I have a 44mag right now and I intend to work with it. I know it will do everything the 45 would have so it is hard to justify the expense of another gun right now. I do buy (prefer) American but will buy foreign if it's what I want (sorry - real world as you mentioned). I like/enjoy my Taurus RB - it's been a quality piece and I don't remotely regret the purchase. It's like me having a .308 and then realizing that I just had to have a 25-06.

What I really need is to find a good "roll my own" load for my 44. I don't believe I'm over pressured right now nor am I doing damage to my gun. I'm convinced that I can beat the factory load and will continue the pursuit.

Krooz

rawhidekid · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2009, 04:47:33 PM »

I agree you have a nice gun, The only thing I might mention is that porting and lead bullets do not always make the best match. I once bought a Dan Wesson .44 Mag used that was ported. Dan Wesson thought thier customers were to stupid to line up the barrel ports with the shroud ports, so they put ports all the way around the barrel. The previus owner liked lead bullets...the shroud was soldered to the barrel at the frame! Dan Wesson recommends only using jacketed bullets in their ported barrels, surprise, surprise! After it was fixed I traded it and that was the last Dan Wesson I bought. I would think that gas checked bullets would be OK but I would watch those plain base.

Krooz · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2009, 01:03:33 AM »

Thanks rawhide. I'm not shooting the soft leads that I have but instead plan to order some WFNGC probably in the 250 to 265gr range. Those will hopefully be developed as my all round - do it all - hunting loads.

I'm back to the range again today. Been playing with the jacketed assortment I have on hand and the 240 XTP/HP have been coming out ahead almost every time. I'm guessing because they are the only ones I have that are .430" vs the rest at .429".

Today I've bumped up a smidge to 24gr of 296 and 20gr of 2400 and only loaded the XTPs. At 50yds my 6 shot groups ranged from 3.5" to 5.5" with the dot sight. I believe I'll be were I want to be and will adjust the groups now to being dead on or a little high at 50.

Krooz

COR · « **Reply #21 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:36:40 AM »

240XTP
24grs W296
Shoots great out of my 5.5 SBH and kills deer "deader" than with my rifle (yep that's right I said "deader"

). I like my homecast lead but that 240xtp is just an awesome deer bullet. I stay away from shoulder shots and try to keep them in the boilermaker. They will tear up some shoulder meat at 50 paces.

I like your back to basics approach. That 44 is all the gun a man ever really needs, you can play with the 45 Colt later...Gas on it!

Beware of the man with one gun...he probably knows how to use it.

Curt

rawhidekid · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:49:38 AM »

Your welcome, it is hard to tell from the picture, is your RB a six inch or eight? I read an article once that said the difference in the Taurus six & eight was only like 100 fps, saying the six was near perfect.

Krooz · « **Reply #23 on:** September 18, 2009, 10:01:17 AM »

My RB is the 8". I was all over this morning - too much java perhaps - but finally settled in and the 296 was a bit tighter at 3" than the 2400 was....so I left it at that and saved enough to sit the stand with tomorrow evening. I'm just glad I've finally been able to roll my own and get better accuracy than what I was getting with the Win USA.

I do want to put a low power scope on though (2x, or 2-6x)- especially for load testing.

Hey COR - that's sounds good - more deader is more better

Krooz

Davemuzz · « **Reply #24 on:** September 18, 2009, 10:34:56 AM »

Quote from: COR on September 18, 2009, 03:36:40 AM

Shoots great out of my 5.5 SBH and kills deer "deader" than with my rifle (yep that's right I said "deader" ).

Just one question: Is "deader" even more dead than "More deader", or at that point, is it all just semantics?

Dave

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** September 18, 2009, 11:36:52 AM »

As to those various levels of dead I offer this advice.

Just plain dead is pretty good for most of us but deader is better yet and more deader is getting right on up there but then most deader is as dead as you can get.

COR · « **Reply #26 on:** September 18, 2009, 11:39:50 AM »

Extra dead...A quick semantical death.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #27 on:** September 18, 2009, 11:57:44 AM »

LOL...Ha...Ha....HA.....

So, if you come upon a pile of dead "things", it goes something like:

1) This one here is dead
2) This one here is deader than that one
3) This one here is more deader than those
4) This one here is extra dead
5) But this last one over here is the most deader.

For those of us with memory problems, a copy\past to a Word file, then print....then clear tape it to your gun stock. A quick glance when your in the field will clear up any doubts you have.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #28 on:** September 18, 2009, 11:59:58 AM »

While I understand with being out of work you want to use as little powder to get what you want in speed out of the cartridge.
The only thing I can caution you on is to use a powder and load that you can see in the case on the machine.
I use a load of blue dot for my 44 with 2 different bullets.
the 180 grain JSP/ JHP will give me about 1,000 FPS for target (Bowling Pins and IDPA type shoot)
and the 240 JSP/ JHP will give me 1,200 FPS for hunting.
I got the load out of the Allient Book. I use Blue and Green for Shotgun so try to find loads for pistol that use them.
But when I drop the powder I can see the X grains of Blue dot in the case and if for some reason I accidentally double charge the load it will spill out of the case. I can get a similar load with about 1/2 the amount of Green dot but the case will hold a doule charge, and I really like my S&W M29 to see what levels it can hold with out bursting.
One of my friends was loading 3-6 grains for his 45 Colt. At one point a phone call interupted him and he went back to loading.
He could not see that he had already charged a case and charged it again.
The gun looked neat after and you can see how the Colt Clone was engineered to come apart and send the parts away.

Krooz · « **Reply #29 on:** September 19, 2009, 03:39:28 AM »

Thanks MC - yeah, it doesn't look like I'll go on a downward trend, with the 2400 and 296 it's been quite the opposite with accuracy proportional with increased powder. I do believe I'm about at the point of diminishing return with both though. I might try another 1/2 grain of 2400 but I doubt I'll go any more than the 24 gr of 296.

Looking forward to getting the hardcast and working up something with those.

Krooz