Author Topic: Lincoln Quote  (Read 4126 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Lincoln Quote
« on: August 21, 2009, 02:28:18 AM »
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will end...eavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 04:13:08 AM »
This from the SOB that gave us the war between the states.
                     Beerbelly

Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 07:09:06 AM »
Mr. Lincoln was a Christian it seems & a wise one.  If he were stupid he would have embraced religion.

"Lincoln's parents were fundamentalist Hard-shell Baptists. However, historian Dr. Mark Noll states that "Lincoln never joined a church nor ever made a clear profession of standard Christian belief." During the White House years, however, he often did attend the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church, where the family pew he rented is marked by a plaque.

Noll agrees with biographer Jesse Fell that Lincoln rejected orthodox views on the innate depravity of man, the character and office of Jesus, the Atonement, the infallibility of the Bible, miracles, and heaven and hell. Noll argues Lincoln was turned against organized Christianity by his experiences as a young man who saw how excessive emotion and bitter sectarian quarrels marked yearly camp meetings and the ministry of travelling preachers.[5]

The one aspect of his parents' Calvinist religion that Lincoln apparently embraced wholeheartedly throughout his life was the "doctrine of necessity," also known as predestination, determinism, or fatalism.[6] It was almost always through these lenses that Lincoln assessed the meaning of the Civil War.

Lincoln was often perplexed by the attacks on his character by way of his religious choices. In a letter written to Martin M. Morris in 1843, Lincoln wrote:

There was the strangest combination of church influence against me. Baker is a Campbellite; and therefore, as I suppose with few exceptions, got all of that Church. My wife had some relations in the Presbyterian churches, and some in the Episcopal churches; and therefore, wherever it would tell, I was set down as either one or the other, while it was everywhere contended that no Christian ought to vote for me because I belonged to no Church, and was suspected of being a Deist and had talked of fighting a duel.[7]

In 1846, when Lincoln ran for congress against Peter Cartwright, the noted evangelist, Cartwright tried to make Lincoln's religion or lack of it a major issue of the campaign. Responding to accusations that he was an "infidel", Lincoln defended himself, without denying that specific charge, by publishing a hand-bill in which he stated:

That I am not a member of any Christian church is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular... I do not think I could myself be brought to support a man for office whom I knew to be an open enemy of, or scoffer at, religion.[8]

As Carl Sandburg recounts in Abraham Lincoln: The Prairie Years, Lincoln attended one of Cartwright's revival meetings. At the conclusion of the service, the fiery pulpiteer called for all who intended to go to heaven to please rise. Naturally, the response was heartening. Then he called for all those who wished to go to hell to stand. Not many takers. Lincoln had responded to neither option. Cartwright closed in. "Mr. Lincoln, you have not expressed an interest in going to either heaven or hell. May I enquire as to where you do plan to go?" Lincoln replied: "I did not come here with the idea of being singled out, but since you ask, I will reply with equal candor. I intend to go to Congress."


"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 07:20:52 AM »
Lincoln supported the killing of innocent men, women and childeren.

How this country can hold a man with his record in such high regard, is testiment to how far we have sunk.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 07:41:45 AM »
Having studied the War of Northern Agression daily for many many years, your comment leaves me at a total loss.

The South fired the first shot.  The South wanted a war & they started the war.  I have no love for Yankees, but the historical facts speak plainly.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Skunk

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 08:13:50 AM »
I have no love for Yankees, but the historical facts speak plainly.

And I'm sure most would have no love for you either.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 08:37:19 AM »
You said it. The war of northern agression. The north was run by Lincoln. There was aggression taken, that was not needed and other actions taken, not required.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 10:28:33 AM »
Yes the South fired at the intruder who would not leave . I for one i don't see that the problem . The yankees not leaving was an act of aggression or war . The South defended itself , a non option in some norther states as proved by their stupid self defense laws .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 11:22:55 AM »
boy am i ever stayin outa thisun..we don t need to fracture the one group i know of with the potential to get gunowners to stand togather....n.s.e.w...jmo slim
 p.s i ll have to say tho ,,my very nature makes me tend to land on the side of any one getting ganged up on...
 this said ,,lets talk about togatherness in protecting gun rights.. :).. we need each other too much to do this..

Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 11:29:32 AM »
I have no love for Yankees, but the historical facts speak plainly.

And I'm sure most would have no love for you either.

I sure hope not. 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2009, 11:31:40 AM »
The south started the war.  The north finished it.  That's why you're not speaking German or Japanese.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 12:06:25 PM »
alrite ..think im goin huntin...slim

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 12:06:30 PM »
  That's why you're not speaking German or Japanese.

No way to tell.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Online Graybeard

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 12:16:11 PM »
Swamp your commentary on the war is as stupid and asinine as your comments on religion. Yeah I know you don't think you know. The real problem is the first part of that is 100% correct. You DON'T think.


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Offline ms

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 12:18:13 PM »
Swamp your commentary on the war is as stupid and asinine as your comments on religion. Yeah I know you don't think you know. The real problem is the first part of that is 100% correct. You DON'T think.
+1  :D

Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 12:27:05 PM »
I try not to let my emotions get in the way of what I've spent 30 years researching.  I don't think I know.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2009, 12:58:22 PM »
I try not to let my emotions get in the way of what I've spent 30 years researching.  I don't think I know.

If you have spent 30 years researching the civil war, and have concluded, based on that research, that it was as you call it, "the war of northern aggression".  I then come to the reasonable conclusion, that you believe the north was in error and the cause of an unneeded war. That said, if Lincoln was the leader of the north( the aggressor) , he (Lincoln) bears responsibility for the actions he ordered as commander in chief.

So I'm perplexed by what to me seems to be a contradiction in your posts here. Can you clarify?
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2009, 01:03:01 PM »
Errrrr... how did we get on to the "revolutionary war"?

"the war of northern aggression" is a period term.  The Civil War is a post war term.  I rarely use it.

Innocents died on both sides. 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2009, 01:03:59 PM »
Errrrr... how did we get on to the "revolutionary war"?

"the war of northern aggression" is a period term.  The Civil War is a post war term.  I rarely use it.

Innocents died on both sides. 

Sorry, meant to say Civil. Momentary Brain lapse. I will modify.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Long Live the King! #3

Offline bljc27

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2009, 02:25:49 PM »
AMEN Graybeard!!!!! ;D

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2009, 02:29:28 PM »
I try not to let my emotions get in the way of what I've spent 30 years researching.  I don't think I know.

If you have spent 30 years researching the civil war, and have concluded, based on that research, that it was as you call it, "the war of northern aggression".  I then come to the reasonable conclusion, that you believe the north was in error and the cause of an unneeded war. That said, if Lincoln was the leader of the north( the aggressor) , he (Lincoln) bears responsibility for the actions he ordered as commander in chief.

So I'm perplexed by what to me seems to be a contradiction in your posts here. Can you clarify?


Swamp, Really would like your view on this.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2009, 03:31:16 PM »
The south wanted & started the war.  When they fired the first shot the Union fought back.  They thought they could win but they never had a chance.  There were more men in New York state than there were in the entire south.  Lincolon was a genius.  The war made us into the most powerful nation on earth and it was God's will.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2009, 04:06:56 PM »
Swamp your commentary on the war is as stupid and asinine as your comments on religion. Yeah I know you don't think you know. The real problem is the first part of that is 100% correct. You DON'T think.



lol!.................Swamp!   Read "The Real Lincoln " by Thomas DiLorenzo
Your just a little confused, and need some guidance. ;D
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2009, 04:21:37 PM »
Lincoln hurt the Constitution more than any Pres. before or since, but Obama is trying to catch up & pass him, and with the help of Northern Libs, he will succeed.

As far as comments from Swampie, I believe Graybeard took care of that.
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Offline Fazak

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2009, 05:14:58 PM »
The Civil War was the second American revolution.

America lost.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2009, 05:31:05 PM »
lincoln was also quoted as observing "common sense is a misnamed virtue as it is rare and rard to find" not a lot has changed.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2009, 05:45:29 PM »
Thomas Jefferson in his First Inaugural Address said, "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it." Fifteen years later, after the New England Federalists attempted to secede, Jefferson said, "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation ... to a continuance in the union ... I have no hesitation in saying, ‘Let us separate.'"

At Virginia's ratification convention, the delegates said, "The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression." In Federalist Paper 39, James Madison, the father of the Constitution, cleared up what "the people" meant, saying the proposed Constitution would be subject to ratification by the people, "not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong." In a word, states were sovereign; the federal government was a creation, an agent, a servant of the states.

On the eve of the War of 1861, even unionist politicians saw secession as a right of states. Maryland Rep. Jacob M. Kunkel said, "Any attempt to preserve the Union between the States of this Confederacy by force would be impractical, and destructive of republican liberty." The northern Democratic and Republican parties favored allowing the South to secede in peace. Just about every major Northern newspaper editorialized in favor of the South's right to secede. New York Tribune (Feb. 5, 1860): "If tyranny and despotism justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861." Detroit Free Press (Feb. 19, 1861): "An attempt to subjugate the seceded States, even if successful could produce nothing but evil -- evil unmitigated in character and appalling in content." The New York Times (March 21, 1861): "There is growing sentiment throughout the North in favor of letting the Gulf States go."

600,000+ troop deaths and countless tens of thousands of innocent civilians killed. Lincoln violated the constitution more than any president in this countries history. He was dead wrong and vertainly no genius.
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Offline Fazak

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2009, 06:09:03 PM »
Here's one of the better reads that I've found on the subject. I'll post an excerpt, but read it all. In fact, bookmark it and read it often.

http://www.sobran.com/articles/tyranny.shtml

How Tyranny Came to America

If Washington and Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton could come back, the first thing they’d notice would be that the federal government now routinely assumes thousands of powers never assigned to it — powers never granted, never delegated, never enumerated. These were the words they used, and it’s a good idea for us to learn their language. They would say that we no longer live under the Constitution they wrote. And the Americans of a much later era — the period from Cleveland to Coolidge, for example — would say we no longer live even under the Constitution they inherited and amended.

I call the present system “Post–Constitutional America.” As I sometimes put it, the U.S. Constitution poses no serious threat to our form of government.

The Civil War, or the War Between the States if you like, resulted from the suspicion that the North meant to use the power of the Union to destroy the sovereignty of the Southern states. Whether or not that suspicion was justified, the war itself produced that very result. The South was subjugated and occupied like a conquered country. Its institutions were profoundly remade by the federal government; the United States of America was taking on the character of an extensive, and highly centralized, empire. Similar processes were under way in Europe, as small states were consolidated into large ones, setting the stage for the tyrannies and gigantic wars of the twentieth century.


Offline Swampman

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2009, 01:50:51 AM »
God created a nation to defeat the Germans.  It stopped the slaughter of his chosen people. 

The American Civil War was also repayment for the way we treated the Native Americans.

He controls everything.

 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Lincoln Quote
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2009, 02:13:00 AM »
Don't know if Abe was right or wrong, but if he had not done as he did, there would not be a United states of America as we know it today. We would have been a bunch of small countries just like europe not the nation we became. Right, Wrong, or indiffrent He made this country greater. 8)
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