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Author Topic: Where do you draw the line on COAL  (Read 625 times)

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Offline fr3db3ar

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Where do you draw the line on COAL
« on: August 21, 2009, 04:36:37 AM »
I've been advised that a gun and bullet will be most accurate when it is touching the lands on loading.  I've got a handi in .223.  I've seated the bullet to several depths to find where it will insert, close and extract.  I'm using a 55gr v-max if it makes a difference.  I know every bullet will be different because of their shape.

Hodgden calls for a OAL of 2.5, but my measures put me @ 2.43.  With that measure the bullet isn't even fully seated in the neck.

Do I just need a longer heavier bullet?  Where do you say it's not seated enough to work and look for some other kinds of solutions?

The bullet is .813 and the exposed portion is .677 which leaves it seated to .136  is this enough?

I've read through the stickies and tried several searches.  My books don't help me.
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 05:05:46 AM »
"I've been advised that a gun and bullet will be most accurate when it is touching the lands on loading"

Some times, but not always. I have guns where there are most accurate when the bullet touches the lands. I also have guns where they shoot better off the lands. When you can't reach the lands or do it decently, the best thing to do is seat them to recommended COAL. I personally do not like to seat them much shallower than a bullet diameter. In other words with a .224 bullet, then seat it in that far, not less than .2". Some times you can't reach the lands because of magazine length. Same rule applies. Of course rules are to be broken because you can not make a rule for every gun and situation. Seat your bullets to the recommended COAL and do not worry about it. You can try to seat them out a little further, but do not try to reach the lands, because you are just not going to have enough bullet left for it. Good Luck and Good Shooting

BTW what is that thing you have in your hand? ;D ;D ;D
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 10:46:39 AM »
For whats its worth I'm not sure I could reach the lands in my 223 Handi if I stacked 2 cases on top of each other  ( real long throat ) , my best loads have come with the bullet seated in the neck .200 , I know thats less than most like but it works in my rifle .

I also shoot the 55g V-max in mine , have tried other weights but they only do a OK job and don't group nearly as well .

As for that stick & string thing he has ??? ??? ??? never could find a load that would shoot worth a hoot in one of them  ;D

stimpy
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Offline fr3db3ar

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 12:32:16 PM »
Thanks Stimpy, for all the wonderers that is a Black Widow longbow.  And out to 40 yds anything I shoot at is almost certainly guaranteed to be hit where I'm looking.  Since my youth I always considered guns to easy.  Recently, being unemployed I've had time to discover long distance shooting, which requires a new and different skill set than just normal hunting distances.  I've taken 22LR in a CZ 452 and 22 WMR in a Savage 93 out to 200 and want to go longer.  I hope to take this .223 out to 600+ with some degree of accuracy.
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Offline Autorim

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 03:11:18 PM »
Will the twist in your barrel stabilize the Sierra 69 grain HPBT? It is a good long range bullet.
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Offline wncchester

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 04:27:03 PM »
"I've been advised that a gun and bullet will be most accurate when it is touching the lands on loading."

You need a better source of info.  That's a BR technique and it doesn't always work for them.  It's rarely true in a factory rifle.  As you have learned, it is quite often physically impossible.

I suggest you start at least .030" off the lands and find a good load.  Then experiment with seating depth, both in and out a little bit, if it's practical.
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Offline skarke

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 04:39:10 PM »
There are sooooo many aspects to accurate loading.  Bullet seating depth is one of many variables that can and should be part of your experimentation.  Bullet quality, weight, BC, etc all contribute, but is only part of an overall load.

What are you trying to do??????/

If you are killing deer, frankly, just load good, safe ammo that shoots well.  It's pretty hard to tease out big differences in accuracy as long as you load with a few basic accuracy techniques.

1.  Good bullets
2.  Appropriate powder
3.  Consistent case length and weight
4.  Clean, deburred primer pockets
5.  Seating the bullets a little off of the lands for good field consistency

If you are loading for bench accuracy with a heaviweight targrt barrel, Kelbly action, etc, then all the little stuff makes a difference.  People tend to get way too wrapped around the axle on "acuracy" loads for popping a little meat.  FWIW, IMHO.
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Offline fr3db3ar

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 04:45:42 PM »
Thanks Shark, I appreciate your input along with everybody elses.  This is likely to have one load that I use for target and light varmint.  Another that may or may not see the deer woods, as i have a bow, a 30-30 anad a 357 revolver to walk the woods with this year. Ideally, that same load would work for longer distances as well.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 04:53:01 PM »
I load for a Handi in .357 that has a very deep throat.  I can trim max. brass about .020 and use it.  Having said that, one of the most accurate bullets I shoot is a .38 wadcutter, which jumps a LONG way to the lands.  Go figure.

Ben
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Offline anweis

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2009, 04:04:05 AM »
There are several problems to seating the bullets touching the lands:
1. magazine length may not allow it
2. Bulllet may end up seated too shallow into the neck
3. It may not give the best accuracy
4. Seating the bulet to touch the lands increases burning pressure quite a bit, but differently between cold and hot weather and cold and hot barrel. You may end up with erratic performance.
6. I am almost certain that you also errode the throat area of the bore faster.

I just seat at the recommended COL and then figure out what powder charge works the best.  It works for me.
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Offline Tommyt

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2009, 01:37:25 AM »
Way Off Topic
If your looking to go 600 why not buy a 22-250 or have one of yours drilled out
If you go to the Handi Forum those guys are all do it your self-ers as far as reaming there own
 On topic
If you looking for distance find the Barrel twist rate and see what weight works well with your twist
This should help in the long distance shooting as well as a crimp
Tommyt


Quote from: fr3db3ar on August 21, 2009, 12:32:16 PM
Thanks Stimpy, for all the wonderers that is a Black Widow longbow.  And out to 40 yds anything I shoot at is almost certainly guaranteed to be hit where I'm looking.  Since my youth I always considered guns to easy.  Recently, being unemployed I've had time to discover long distance shooting, which requires a new and different skill set than just normal hunting distances.  I've taken 22LR in a CZ 452 and 22 WMR in a Savage 93 out to 200 and want to go longer.  I hope to take this .223 out to 600+ with some degree of accuracy.
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Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Where do you draw the line on COAL
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2009, 02:22:38 AM »
I tried to do it on several rifles and it didn't make enuff diffrence to bother with in my opinion.  But I don't shoot for scores. 8)
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