Author Topic: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope  (Read 10432 times)

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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2009, 12:59:42 PM »
I have & will continue to treat you with respect.

When I look through a Leupold, the question comes to mind who turned out the lights.

  Have you tried looking through one with your EYES OPEN??  lol lol  It's the GUN that recoils, NOT the scope, so OPEN your eyes!!  ha ha ha

  DM

Offline Swampman

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2009, 03:31:45 PM »
I've owned quite a few Leupolds, & for years I wouldn't own anything else.  Then one day I looked through some other brands.  I couldn't believe the difference.  If I want an expensive scope it will be a Zeiss.  Personally I prefer the Bushnells over the rest.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline jasonprox700

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2009, 04:34:40 PM »
I agree with GB.  My best optics are my VXIII Leupolds, HANDS DOWN!!!  My Nikon is nice, but not even in the same league.

Swampman,
Have you ever looked through a Leupold???  I should ask you, what optics do you own that make the Leupold look dark?  I want what you got...

Word of advise, try removing the scope covers next time you look through a Leupold.  Trust me, it makes a HUGE difference!!!

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2009, 01:46:26 AM »
Swampy ole Pardner, you need to send the Leupolds in for repair if they are that dark, or use em to beat the bushnells off your guns then send em in for repair.  I dont have anything against bushnells really but if your leupolds are dark then they are broke! or capped!


That being said I'm like jasonprox700, "what optics do you own that make the Leupold look dark?  I want what you got..."
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Offline p15camborne

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2009, 02:32:42 AM »
I was considering a Zeiss Conquest 4 power.  I compared it with a Leupold 4 power FX-II.  The Leupold cost less.  The Leupold weighted less.  The Leupold was shorter.  I bought the Leupold.  Leupold has proven customer service.  Leupold fixed the old Vari-X II I sent back to them, no charge.  I own six Leupolds and will own more.  None of them are thousand dollar scopes.  One is a $400 VX-III.  Even if Zeiss is brighter, Leupold is fine for my use.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2009, 02:49:50 AM »
if you look thru. poor optics for long you will know . The eyes blur and need squinting and wiping . The head may hurt and the stomach may not feel quite right if movement is involved . Optics need not be the last - greatest and expensive but they should be of good quality . Leupold is a good example as they advanced their line they kept the less tech. scopes that are of quality worth looking at but not as expensive as the new stuff . Why put a $1000.00 scope on a truck gun if a $250.00 VX-1 will do the job the few times you need it ?
So worth it ? depends on what the use will be .
Better ? yep , for some applications .
Cost effective ? maybe -maybe not .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Savage_99

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2009, 04:09:53 AM »
In a way, you get what you pay for.  I do think that some of the manufacturers overprice their stuff. 

Here are my personal experiences:

When I got my 1st deer rifle (Ruger MkII .280), it came with a 3x9x40 Tasco.  I ended up picking up a 3x9x50 Tasco World Class scope (approximately $125) and giving my dad my other scope (approximately $75).  A couple of years later, one of the post literally broke off in the scope.  That scope was replaced by Tasco, but the same thing happened two years later.  My dad said the heck with it and bought a Nikon ($300).  No problems since. 

About 5 years ago, my scope took a crap on me at the moment of truth.  The biggest buck I have ever had the chance to place crosshairs on stopped at about 75 yards in the woods, facing me.  I placed the crosshairs on his chest and fired.  The gun fired and that was it.  The buck stood there looking at me.  I kicked in another shell and slowly squeezed the trigger (thinking that I had jerked the trigger).  This time, the buck took off when I fired.  I gave him about 15 minutes before I went to search.  I found a little bit of hair and some bark.  No blood or anything.  I let him go overnight.  I resumed the search and found no blood.  Later that afternoon, the same buck stepped out about 10 feet away.  I swung the gun and fired as soon as everything was lined up.  He went 100 yards and piled up.  What I found is the 2nd bullet the night before grazed his side.  The next day, I set up a target at 100 yards and 50 yards.  I shot a couple of groups at each.  I was shocked.  At 50 yards, I was getting 6" to 8" groups.  At 100 yards, the groups were almost double that.  I checked the mounts and whatever else I could think of. 

I sent the scope off to Tasco after deer season for inspection.  They said the internals were shot.  They wouldn't help me because they claimed the scope was abused.  Then, they wanted to charge me for returning the scope back to me.  I told them to keep it.  The scope was never abused, the gun was never dropped.  In fact, the scope was mounted by a very respectable gunsmith.  I replaced the scope with a Nikon and have never looked back.

I now have 1 Nikon ($300), 2 Leupolds (1 was $850, 1 was $300), 2 Burris' (both about $300 to $350), 1 Tasco (this is on my .22, not enough recoil to damage it), and a couple of red dots.  I do feel that once you hit the $200 to $300 range for scopes, quality takes a big jump.  The Nikon is 10x the scope that Tasco was.  The expensive Leupold has unbelievable clarity!

Glass clarity is way better on the higher end stuff too.  At low power, it is noticeable, but it doesn't jump out at you.  Crank the power up, and watch out!  You would not believe the difference.  There is no distortion, and no "fuzziness" around the edges. 

I myself am on a budget.  I have a wife and 2 young girls (the latest one is 2 months old).  I try to save up for what I want, because in the end, a cheap scope will cost you more in the long run.  Also, I like having the security of knowing I have a scope that will work when called upon.  I was lucky that the buck showed up the next night!!!

I feel that the above quote points out the most important lesson from this excellent thread.  We want reliability in our scopes and rifles as well.

Of the current scopes Leupold is pretty much the standard however try a Zeiss Conquest.  The Conquest has a better resolution and a far superior reticule that does not fade to incoming light.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2009, 04:14:21 AM »
  As i've stated many times, i have several "tried and true" Leupolds, but the last two times around, i bought Zeiss Conquest.



  I bought the Zeiss because in MY test, for MY eyes the Zeiss was a best low light scope i looked through, and that's the only reason i was buying a new scope in the first place.  Also, it cost less than the top of the Leupold i compared it to.

  IF you look around, there are some GREAT deals on some of the Conquest line...

  DM

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2009, 04:18:45 AM »
I have to ask was the scopes the same in ret dia , mag. and exit pup as they determine what useable light is transferred to the eye not brand name .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline buffalo

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2009, 04:58:24 AM »
Anymore I see a Swampman post I go to the next item.You are right Graybeard he either is simply not telling the truth or is so biased in his opinions that he cant see it.He just does this to start a confrontation.I am only a new member but I'm tired of it already.Remington rifles are good but usually only after you spent several hundred dollars to make them shoot.Leupold scopes are good always.You can have your Zeisses,Nikons etc.When you consider price,quality service, and warranty---You just cant beat a Leupold!

Offline yooper77

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2009, 06:22:27 AM »
Anymore I see a Swampman post I go to the next item.You are right Graybeard he either is simply not telling the truth or is so biased in his opinions that he cant see it.He just does this to start a confrontation.I am only a new member but I'm tired of it already.Remington rifles are good but usually only after you spent several hundred dollars to make them shoot.Leupold scopes are good always.You can have your Zeisses,Nikons etc.When you consider price,quality service, and warranty---You just cant beat a Leupold!

Try the ignore button it works great.

Leupold's are the best of the best for quality, price and customer service.  No other optics can come close, I’m my humble opinion.  I have some others optics, but I no longer buy them; I only buy new or used Leupold's

yooper77

Offline tturner53

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2009, 06:23:51 AM »
A Leopold is the way to go, hands down. They have a broad range of scopes from economical to pricey, they're all good American made scopes, what else do you want? BUT, if I was asked which cheap scope I'd pick for a hunt if I had to it'd be the Bushnell Legend. Lotta scope for the money. Mine has been worked hard and no problems. Just my two cents. All those other cheapies are just a roll of the dice, maybe ok, maybe not, maybe will break at a bad time, maybe it won't. I know, I have a bunch of cheapies! tt

Offline Hunter_Smurf

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2009, 08:39:20 AM »
i see this is sparking a lot of conversation..lol

i don't shoot much past 100-125 yards in my area of hunting,

i personaly cant justify even the $100 - $250 scopes

not because i wouldn't love to try one but because of income and the amount of hunting i do.

after reading how strongly you all feel about the differences in optics,  i realize i'm not knowing what im missing..

however..im ok with that..

for my budget and time spent hunting i am ok with what i use.. and after all is said and done.. thats what really matters in my oppinion..


thank you all for the input.... i have learned a lot.. and now maybe i will have a new found understanding  when i see the scopes or binocs being sold for high prices instaed of just thinking "" wow..they must be nuts."...lol...
I'm not laughing at you I'm laughing with you,
                             Your just not laughing.......

Ever notice the deer we get is always smaller
                              than the deer we saw..??.lol

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2009, 08:40:58 AM »
If i had to go with a cheap scope i would use open sights
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Graybeard

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2009, 10:42:31 AM »
I like Leupold scopes they are always a good choice but not always a good buy for the money especially these days as they are trying to get as much or more for some of them as the European scopes. Mechanically they are as tough and reliable as any on the market. They do NOT have the BEST optics but they are definitely NOT bad nor dim and dang sure not dark.

I like Bushnell Elite's especially the E4200s and would love to be able to afford an E6500 but can't. The E3200s are good scopes and solid buys for the money but they do not transmit as much light as most Leupold scopes I don't think. If you look at manufacturer's specs on light transmitted you can see all but maybe the Rifleman beat it for that. How bright a scope is when you look thru it is a matter of optics quality, coating quality and type, objective size as compared to magnification and darn little else. In none of these categories are Leupold VX or Vari-X II or III scopes not superior to the E3200.

There is a price point beyond which spending more on a scope or binocular buys you little. Used to be that was around $250 on scopes but these days those scopes that used to be $250 are now more like $400. When you go past let's say $600 you're mostly buying snob appeal in scopes. Binoculars are about the same really. For sure you're getting more snob appeal than value when you exceed around $650 to $760 on a binocular. You aren't getting better optics or more rugged instruments. Spending more beyond a certain point tends not to buy you much for the money. But cheap is not the way to go even if you have to save for a year or more to get a better optical instrument. there are good values in the lower price points to be sure. You just have to know where to look for them. Much below $200 tho generally isn't the best choice even if money is tight. Pay attention to reports here and you'll learn which below $200 scopes and binoculars are worth getting.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline tturner53

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2009, 11:56:10 AM »
Speaking of cheapies, after reading here about the Simmons 2.5 from CDNN I ordered two. I opened the package on one, it has a blurry spot almost in the middle of the reticule, checked to be sure the lenses were clean, it's internal. Almost hate to even send in a $20 scope, but I know it's a guaranty item. Haven't opened up the other one yet, I'll get to it and let you know. tt   Edit; I checked the other Simmons 2.5x20 I got, it seems ok.

Offline Skunk

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2009, 02:22:39 PM »
Speaking of cheapies, after reading here about the Simmons 2.5 from CDNN I ordered two.

I needed a nice, inexpensive, scope for another new .22lr rifle I just picked up. I decided upon a Mueller (GBO Sponsor) Eradicator for $229.00. Ordered it last night, so I haven't seen it yet. From all the reviews I hear about Mueller, I'm thinking it will work just fine.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline Swampman

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2009, 03:16:04 PM »
Anymore I see a Swampman post I go to the next item.You are right Graybeard he either is simply not telling the truth or is so biased in his opinions that he cant see it.He just does this to start a confrontation.I am only a new member but I'm tired of it already.Remington rifles are good but usually only after you spent several hundred dollars to make them shoot.Leupold scopes are good always.You can have your Zeisses,Nikons etc.When you consider price,quality service, and warranty---You just cant beat a Leupold!

Following the herd & repeating what others say isn't for me.  My opinions are based on field experience.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline 30-30man

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2009, 04:33:46 PM »
I recently purchased a Federal Intensity 2.8-10x44 for my neice's rifle.  The Federal Intensity is made by ATK and some models including this one has the aspherical lenses like the old Simmons Atecs had. I think it is almost an exact copy.  The old Simmons Aetecs were much better than the crap Meade was peddling.  They are made in the Phillipines, not China.  I am real pleased with the clarity and light gathering ability of this scope.  The guide currently has them for below $100 while other sites list them for over $260.  I've compared them with the Muellers, Bushnells, and the one Leupold I have and can't tell one difference.  It is as clear or better than any of them. They are fully multicoated and are clear from edge to edge. I notice it has much better eye relief than the Muellers.  I love Mueller scopes but on the higher powers the eye relief gets to be a pain.  Anyway, good luck on your venture...Check out the Federal Intensity, they are a great deal in glass right now. 

Offline Graybeard

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2009, 06:16:47 PM »
ATK doesn't "make scopes". I'm not even sure any of the companies they own these days "make scopes" but they do import a whole heap of them make overseas in various countries.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2009, 06:19:05 PM »
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you make such obviously BS statements as you do they claim you know it all and are just going on fact when the rest of the world knows you are either WRONG or flat out lying? I just don't know what to make of you any more. It reminds me why I had to ban you for a good long while once upon a long time ago.

Anymore I see a Swampman post I go to the next item.You are right Graybeard he either is simply not telling the truth or is so biased in his opinions that he cant see it.He just does this to start a confrontation.I am only a new member but I'm tired of it already.Remington rifles are good but usually only after you spent several hundred dollars to make them shoot.Leupold scopes are good always.You can have your Zeisses,Nikons etc.When you consider price,quality service, and warranty---You just cant beat a Leupold!

Following the herd & repeating what others say isn't for me.  My opinions are based on field experience.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Skunk

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2009, 06:38:08 PM »
My opinions are based on field experience.

I just find it rather odd that of all the other Gazillion hunters, shooters, military personnel, etc, etc, who express opinions here and on other forums, and whose opinions are also "based on field experience," that only your opinions are always so far skewed in a different direction that they are not even in the same universe, little alone this planet.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline diggler1833

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2009, 12:17:52 AM »
I've had almost half a dozen cheaper scopes quit on me over the past few years.  Most of them were on rimfires which is frustrating, with another that was on top of a sporterized 03A3.  Of all the ones that went out on rimfires it was always when I was adjusting the scope as I like to dial in elevation/windage instead of holding over.

I currently own a newer Sightron SIII and Leupold MK4 on the two rifles that I'm currently shooting the most.  While the Sightron is one of the best deals out there at the moment for optical quality for the price, the Leupy isn't too bad either.  Side by side it took me a little bit to finally give the clarity to the Sightron.  I recently sold off a Burris XTR as well, and for what I bought it for the optical quality was also pretty damn good.

All of these scopes as well as my Super Sniper that I also recently sold off tracked repeatedly...every time with no issues and a repeatable zero.  I never had to worry about dialing in the elevation/windage change and having the shot be off. 

If I had the funds available I'd personally stick to S&B/USO/PH/NF, but with a wife and two kids to feed I'm stuck with having to stay in the $1K range for a variable scope.

Offline Dave in WV

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2009, 06:08:04 AM »
With improper cleaning and care any brand of scope can become dim in time. Wipe them off with a shirt tail covered with grit or paper towels and a dim scope is in the making. The coatings aren't knucklehead proof. Optics DO NOT go dim sitting in a gun safe. They DO NOT have a "use by date". I only clean my optics as needed and then do it carefully.
Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others; it is the only means
--Albert Einstein

Offline 30-30man

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2009, 07:47:32 AM »
I don't know who makes the Federal Intensity, but they are owned by ATK who formly owned Simmons and I think they have bought them back from Meade along with Weaver and Redfield recently. They have links on their site and all of them have the same warranty repair address which led me believe they have bought them back from meade. They have real good glass as I was really surprised.  Check them out if you see them.  It is almost a copy of the old Simmons Aetec which was a very good low priced scope and it doesn't have a made in China label.  The Bushnell Banners and Muellers are good low priced scopes, but the Intensity I have is a bit brighter.  It maybe the lenses they use I don't know, but it is worth a look if you are interested in a good scope for less than $100.

Offline v-man

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2009, 10:10:52 AM »
Anecdotal accounts are interesting but they hardly replace "science". There is only so much light that can pass through glass or be reflected from a mirror. There are various processes of cutting, shaping, polishing, treating, and coating that determine the quantity and clarity of light that is transmitted through the tube and to the eye. There are degrees of the performance of these processes and there are varying degrees of quality control measures that all affect the performance of the typical finished product. All these steps cost money. The more these steps are performed the more money it costs to make the scope. The more times these steps are performed the more money it costs to make the scope. The more technical engineers and R&D expenses the more the scope will cost. The more they spend on advertising and warranty commitments the more the scope will cost. If a scope retails for $100 you can bet the farm that it is in some way scientifically, measurably inferior to the $1000 scope. Even if half of the price is due to the brand name, the advertising expense and the R&D dept, it is still a better scope in some application that is important to someone. If your "cheap" scope is adequate, and it does seems that they are better than a few years ago, it is largely because they are using materials, processes and technololgy that the expensive scope companies have spent millions to develope. They don't need MIT and GT engineers staffing an R&D dept. They often use "dollar a day" Asian labor for assembly and have few or no QC points along the assembly process. But if they work for you, why not save money, right? In "perfect" conditions it may not matter. But consider the factors that often ruin "perfect" conditions. Temperature, altitude, extreme distance, light conditions, change of background, recoil, etc all lurk nearby. Unless you feel confident that you have full control over all those factors, you may someday wish you had bought an better scope.

Offline eye shot

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2009, 10:23:22 AM »
I think Luepold owns Redfield. Speaking of Redfield the old Illuminator and TX models, $200-$300 used may compete with some of those $1000 scopes.
RIP Mike. Died on July 14th, around 2am, with his family at his side, he went peacefully to be with god.

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Offline 30-30man

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2009, 04:09:29 PM »
I stand corrected only the Weaver/Simmons/federal Intensity have a common repair center.

Offline bilmac

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2009, 01:03:43 AM »
I own LOTS or rifles If I started putting $1,00 scopes on them I couldn't afford more than a few. I only have one rifle that is scoped with something as expensive as a Leopold, most have something in the $100 range. I can only remember a couple of scopes cratering on me, and that only happened while I was screwing on the dials sighting them in.

As far as a scope failing at a critical moment, some folks sure have a lot of bad luck. I never go hunting with only one gun along, if one were to fail there is always backup. But I've never needed to change rifles because of a failed scope.

Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: ok, are they really worth it? a $1000 scope better than a $50 scope
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2009, 01:31:06 AM »
I stand corrected only the Weaver/Simmons/federal Intensity have a common repair center.

I was given a Simmons Aetec scope that needed repair. Simmons would not repair it. If Simmons will not repair one of their better scopes what do they repair?