Author Topic: Poor mans trigger job help? (Read 3032 times)

cleveland48 · « **on:** August 28, 2009, 05:56:52 AM »

Can someone explain this poor mans trigger job to me ? I have a new ruger blackhawk 44 mag that could use some attention to the trigger. Thanks

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2009, 06:09:41 AM »

Google it.
IMHO you are better off paying a gunsmith to change springs and do a trigger job

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2009, 09:01:47 AM »

Swap out the springs they are cheap and it's not that hard.

Bitterroot Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2009, 01:55:34 PM »

Okay,
First, let me recommend the Trapper Gun spring kit for Rugers. It comes with three main-springs that are lighter than stock, and a light trigger spring. It is a simple swap. Trapper Gun, Roseville, MI 1-586-776-7581. Call them. They make them there. I've installed about eight so far.
The poor man's trigger job is this: Remove the grips. Take one trigger spring leg off the post. Replace the grips.
I know. It doesn't sound like much, and it isn't. They say it works. I'd rather have a completely installed spring. Worth a try.

Bitterroot

blhof · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2009, 02:13:49 PM »

I 2nd the Trapper kit and I tried the poor mans job on my single six and it didn't strike hard enough to fire consistantly, bought the Trapper set and now have a light trigger with 100% firing.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2009, 01:48:45 AM »

if you do use a poor mans trigger job. Just drop the leg of the spring DO NOT use the the hammer push part of the recomendations or youll end up with a messed up trigger/sear surface and could easily end up with an unsafe handgun that is going to cost you much more to fix then you would have payed to just have it done right the first time. Im not a fan of them. It does nothing to remove trigger creap and that is alot more detrimental to accuracy then pull weight is.

Luckyducker · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2009, 06:37:23 AM »

What I have done on a couple of Ruger Single Actions to make the trigger better is what I have heard of a "poor man's trigger job". With the gun empty, cock the hammer and with the heal of the off hand put as much pressure as you can muster on the back of the trigger and while doing this squeeze the trigger. Repeat a half dozen or more times and the edge of the sear will smooth so that the trigger breaks more crisply. I have done this on a couple of Rugers and it helps break in. I am sure the same smoothing happens while shooting a few hundred rounds through but it makes it smoother to shoot when still new.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2009, 11:13:48 AM »

As Lloyd says the push off part of it as mentioned by LuckyDucker is not a wise idea as it can ruin your parts. Sure it can also polish them but the chance of ruining is about as high as not ruining so I'd say don't. You can get the same effect without the danger of damage by just dry firing a few hundred times or just shooting that much ammo thru it.

I've done the "remove one leg of spring" trick on several and it does make for a much improved trigger pull but is a half way measure and not nearly as good as getting a proper action job done but if ya really can't afford to pay to have it done and don't feel comfortable with the gunsmith part of spring replacements it does help.

cleveland48 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2009, 03:59:44 PM »

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I might try the trapper spring kit, about how much does this cost?

Axehandle · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2009, 05:09:51 PM »

Don't fool with the hammer spring.... Swap out the trigger spring for the Wolff spring from Midway

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=436652

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2009, 12:20:53 AM »

my buddy who does my triggers for me chewed me out big time once for doing it. It cost me a trigger and a hammer on that gun as it was so messed up he couldnt salvage it by recutting them. It doesnt take much to ruin them either. I probably did it a dozen times and ruined that set. You also have to take into consideration wear. THe sear surface wears on its own in time. If you push off the hammer it might be fine today but a year from now your hammer will start pushing off and you end up with an unsafe gun. Just ask me how i know!!

Quote from: Graybeard on August 29, 2009, 11:13:48 AM

As Lloyd says the push off part of it as mentioned by LuckyDucker is not a wise idea as it can ruin your parts. Sure it can also polish them but the chance of ruining is about as high as not ruining so I'd say don't. You can get the same effect without the danger of damage by just dry firing a few hundred times or just shooting that much ammo thru it.

I've done the "remove one leg of spring" trick on several and it does make for a much improved trigger pull but is a half way measure and not nearly as good as getting a proper action job done but if ya really can't afford to pay to have it done and don't feel comfortable with the gunsmith part of spring replacements it does help.

zoner · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:38:03 AM »

please don't do the "push-off" thing to your hammer. please don't disconnect one leg of the trigger return spring. Listen to these guys about the wolf spring pak...change the return spring first,then try the gun....then maybe try the different hammer springs if you need to...but be prepared,changing a hammer spring on a ruger SA the first time can be quite an experience

AtlLaw · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:24:08 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on August 29, 2009, 01:48:45 AM

It does nothing to remove trigger creap and that is alot more detrimental to accuracy then pull weight is.

Interestring and informative thread! As Lloyd said, I can live with a trigger that is a little heavy much better then one that is creapy. Unfortunately I have that problem in my SBH and M73.

I think I'll check with the local SASS folk and see if I can find anybody local that works on 'em.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2009, 12:15:36 AM »

ive found that if you have alot of creap in a trigger lighting it without removing the creap can make the creap feel even worse.

SAA · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2009, 05:19:56 AM »

I resently did a trigger job on my NM Blackhawk following these instructions.

http://www.cylindersmith.com/triggerspring.html

I now have a Blackhawk with an excellent trigger.

Bitterroot Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2009, 03:17:31 AM »

Howdy,
The Trapper Spring kits are in the neighborhood of $15 or so. They also make a hunter kit with an improved main-spring, trigger spring, and a heavy cylinder-pin latch spring made for heavy recoiling revolvers.
The main-spring isn't that difficult. The grip frame has to come off and Bill Ruger must have been a fan of Chinese puzzles. Seems like each screw has two or more jobs, and there are a couple small captive springs and plungers held in place by the frame. A well-fitting screw-driver, a large paper clip, and a small punch are the only tools that you will need, and the gun can really be cleaned and oiled properly with the guts exposed. It isn't a big deal.

Bitterroot

Frank V · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2009, 06:36:42 AM »

Quote from: SAA on August 31, 2009, 05:19:56 AM

I resently did a trigger job on my NM Blackhawk following these instructions.

http://www.cylindersmith.com/triggerspring.html

I now have a Blackhawk with an excellent trigger. ;

I have used this method & the improvement is remarkable! It also will not damage any parts.
Frank

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2009, 11:32:31 AM »

I haven't looked at how my Vaquero sear is designed, but I am made a little nervous at the notion that to do the above trigger job half the engagement surface needs to be removed.

jcn59 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2009, 04:13:35 PM »

Couple years ago I did the poor man trigger thing on at least 4 of my Rugers with complete success and satisfaction. It's like everything else gunny ~ if you go about it like a ham-fisted gorilla, you'll probably not be satisfied with your work.

I don't like weak hammer springs. That tends to promote misfires under certain conditions. Good factory springs are pretty dependable. I seldom mess with sears except to polish sometimes.

I've also done the reverse pawl thing with complete satisfaction. Better know what you're doing before you start reshaping the pawl though.

I would add that there is nothing wrong with taking your gun to a 'smith.......as long as his work is satisfactory. Sometimes it's hard to find one though.

Autorim · « **Reply #19 on:** September 03, 2009, 03:16:56 PM »

I send mine to Alan Harton. Excellent trigger with a trigger stop. He recuts the engaging surfaces and IME is a first class job.

jcn59 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2009, 03:36:30 PM »

I'm not afraid to say that Alan's work on his worst day is probably better than mine on my best. Having said that, my work meets my satisfaction, & I enjoy doing it. Like everything else, don't get in over your own abilities.

We are fortunate to have a really really good gunsmith about 45 miles from my home. His work is flawless.

Ole Man Dan · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2009, 08:41:58 AM »

John Gallaghar tuned 6 of my 10 Ruger single actions, removed the Ruger instructions from the Barrel and they finished out light, uniform and crisp w/o creep.
(I need to take him the others)
Now I have my eye on a Redhawk with a poor trigger...

PS: It's better to pass on the Poor Mans Trigger Job... As mentioned they may be a success or a failure depending on the amount of force put on the hammer, and the number of reps. used.
The trigger spring will lighten over time, but if it has creep, time won't help that problem.
(Get new springs)

Boge Quinn · « **Reply #22 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:44:33 AM »

I'm afraid I'll have to differ with some of the wiser heads on this subject. Every New Model Ruger I get receives a "Poor Boy's Trigger Job" immediately, complete with "marrying" the hammer. Doesn't help with creep, but it DOES help.

http://www.gunblast.com/Poorboy.htm

gunblade · « **Reply #23 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:24:19 AM »

I've tuned up the triggers on all my Rugers by just polishing the engagement surfaces with crocus cloth, and by gently bending the legs of the trigger spring at the coil so they are on a slight upward angle. This has the same effect as removing one leg, but keeps both legs in place rather than leaving one leg "hanging." This will reduce the pull weight, but also reduces the strength of the trigger return as well, so it's important to find the right balance....just a slight bend of about 15-20 degrees, is sufficient, and you can always bend it back.

jcn59 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:36:43 AM »

I've done the poor man job on at least 4 over the past 4 or 5 years, maybe more, I forget. It has been 100 per cent successful. I wonder if the people who bad-mouth the procedure have even tried it once.

Raise your hand if you ever wrecked your Blackhawk by doing a poor man trigger job!

I would say this: If you can't do this simple procedure without wrecking your gun, you probably NEED to send any work more complicated than painting the front sight white to a qualified gunsmith. And that's okay, a man needs to know his limitations.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2009, 11:08:01 PM »

My hand is raised. I had to have my buddy who is also a freind of boges replace parts in two guns that were goofed up by pushing off a hammer. Boge im sure if you lived closer where Al could do your guns you wouldnt be fooling with a half assed way of doing a trigger yourself. Im fussy and im spoiled. A handgun for me has to have a 2-3 lb trigger and it MUST have NO creap! Im fortunate to have a good freind who will do mine and spend hours on doing it because he knows how fussy i am. Bottom line is it takes hours to get one really right and i couldnt afford to pay someone to do it. The bad thing for me is even the customs i have had made need additional work to get to the point i can live with them. Most of the custom smiths will send back a gun with most of the creap removed but not all of it and a 3-4 lb trigger. A trigger a guy can live with but not perfect by any means. Another bit of honesty. Every handgun i have has had trigger work by Al and if i had to pay for them all it would have been a pile of money that i probably couldnt have afforded. If Al wasnt doing them id probably be dropping a leg on a spring myself but NEVER would i do the hammer push off thing!

Keith L · « **Reply #26 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:19:45 AM »

I have a brother in law that is a master with trigger jobs, and he showed me much about how they work and how to do them. Anytime I get a new to me gun the first thing I do is to take it apart and clean it up including de-burring and polishing all surfaces. Often this is all it takes to get a creep free light trigger. If it doesn't then I give it a shot. If I can't get it to where I like it the BIL does. Like Lloyd that has saved me a bundle over the years.

zoner · « **Reply #27 on:** September 12, 2009, 03:40:06 AM »

i will stand with lloyd on the hammer push off thing...none of my guns are screwed up because of that cuz i won't do it. I am a DIY guy every chance i get,to save money and because i enjoy doing it...but trying to make a gun do the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do and applying extra pressure on small parts to make it happen,with even a possibility of resulting in an unsafe condition to save a few bucks...i'll pass on that. I also recommend trying the lighter hammer return spring(with both legs hooked) over taking one leg of the factory spring off.....when DIY has a possible impact on safety or function, it's time to pull back and re-evaluate the situation,for me anyway....Mike

skarke · « **Reply #28 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:41:08 AM »

Really, a good trigger job can be done by a competent person, slowly, patiently, with the PROPER TOOLS. These tools can be acquired from Brownells (i.e. the SW rebound spring tool if working on a SW). The benefit of doing our own job is that we can spend hours upon hours doing a job that a gunsmith must do in about 1 hour to be able to make money on his work.

Now, a good gunsmith can do in an hour what takes me a couple of days, but I'd put my last few trigger jobs (SW V Comp 627, Encore and old style contender) against the best I've seen from the big guys, especially that V Comp. The combined cost of the jobs, parts, tools, etc, was about $50.

The downside of doing your own work is that, if you screw it up, you just bought yourself a pack of trouble, and danger, that'll cost you at least a bill, maybe two, to fix.

So, the moral of the story is that if you know that you know that you are patient, competent, have the tools and the time, go for it. If you are not 100% confident that you have all of these traits and assets, there is no shame in taking your arms to a good smithy, handing him $60 or so bucks, and getting a nice piece back a little while later.

FWIW, IMHO.

jcn59 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:16:14 AM »

The secret to the push-off method is to approach it gently. This is not rocket science. Your goal is to simulate the normal burnishing of friction points in the firing mechanism which occurs when you shoot or dry fire your Ruger. When you gently "load" the hammer as you pull the trigger, it simulates repeated dry firing or shooting. If you try to do it all in two "procedures" you won't be satisfied with the results, will you, Lloyd? Especially if there are other problems which need to be addressed.

A knowledgable gunsmith accomplishes pretty much the same thing, smoothing the engagement surfaces with abrasives. Obviously he can access other things that I can't, like "creep", since he disasembles the revolver .

If you don't have an understanding of what you are trying to do to your revolver, the job is best left to experts. A man's got to know his limitations.