Hunting Dog Dolphins

[carronader]

 I think this cannon is worthy of it's own thread, it's possibly ( in my opinion ) the most beautifull cannon Budapest has. fortunately it has some decipherable info too. Dolphins are a wee bit special.

[carronader]

the dogs

[carronader]

still on same cannon...........

[thelionspaw]

I've always been puzzled as to just why dolphins seem to have been used???  I mean, "why dolphins"?  It became almost a religious thing.  Sure the form/design lends itself to the function but .......?

Now these hounds have me thinking, Dolphins for a sea cannon and Hounds for a land cannon?

Back to cogitating!

rc "Clan Macduff"

[Victor3]

 Those are mermacanidae.

[thelionspaw]

Canis Indagator?

rc

[carronader]

 Dawgs

[RocklockI]

cerbrus , mythical hell dogs is my guess .?

as far i can tell ,dolfins were used ....and most are mytical , dolfin , sea monster ,horror of the deep .

i think it is an homage or respecting the unknown .

this is of an age where dark arts and rumors prevailed .

mho i could be wrong

[dan610324]

yeah thats so correct

how many of the sculptors at the foundries had seen a dolphin 200 to 400 years ago ??
probably none of them

it was probably the sculptors imagination and some hear say from old sailors that created all this different sea monsters
of course also a lot of copying what others had used as lifting handles

[thelionspaw]

Cerberus had three (03) heads on one (01) body.

rc

[dan610324]

you mean like this   

[RocklockI]

Cerberus had three (03) heads on one (01) body.

rc

three heads is more common ,but there are two headed and one headed .....cerbruses ....

[thelionspaw]

Perhaps in some art but in mythology (the actual legend) it had 3 heads. There is an example of it being credited with having 50 heads. Truly, "Canis Eatemis Anythingis".

I was waiting for Dan to come-up with that image. I knew that he has it.  It is on the sledge cannons of Karl XII.

rc

[Cannoneer]

Thanks Carronader, that is one beautiful French cannon. I think the dolphins are actually supposed to represent winged dragons with the image of the heads being drawn from the imaginative mind of the gun founder. In my opinion, Dan is right; even great artists like Leonardo and Michelangelo had to draw upon images taken from the real world when they were attempting to create mythical/fantasy creatures, and this would explain why in both of these drawings the dragon's heads resemble those of dogs.
Will the real Lord Kenneth Clark please stand up; this will be the end of our discussion on artist's representations of dragons during the European Renaissance, at the Tate Gallery this afternoon, thank you.

Leonardo's dragon


Michelangelo's dragon

[thelionspaw]

Here is the muzzle of Dan's Cerberus and its Dolphins. Also another cannon of Dan's with Griffins.

rc

[Cannoneer]

Rich, that can't be a Griffin gun, John Griffin didn't manufacture his first gun until c. 1855.

[thelionspaw]

Hi John,
Kenny here. I just can't see "dogs" in Lenny and Mickey works. The ancient mariner's charts were often embelished with the mythical dolphin type sea monster.  It was a favourite. 

Did these dolphins first manifest themselves on shipboard cannons? Then porpoise over to land cannons?

Griffins might go either way but me thinks they would be be relegated to land cannons.  Whereas the hounds would naturally be used on land based artillery.

Then again, I doubt any hard and fast rules. "Artistic License" and personal taste would dictate.

As for artists drawing inspiration from the "real world", one only has to look at the beasts often illustrated for use by the medieval Roman Catholic church. Gargoyles!

Say hello to Rich for me.

Kenny

[dan610324]

yeah sure its a griffin, but guess if I was shocked when I found it ??

the similarity to my dolphin is almost frightening

[Double D]

Doesn't the reference to dolphins come from the relationship to the appearance of the way dolphin--porpoise out the water...

[thelionspaw]

Doug,
They do that on porpoise

[Double D]

Doug,
They do that on porpoise

I knew, I just knew, groan! 

[RocklockI]

if it was a wide angle lens you would see that the dolfins always a leader ,know why .













he's the one in front ...badump bump  

[Don Krag]

Kinda look like dachsunds to me. Maybe they used to fire real ones out of the cannons?

[Cannoneer]

I just can't see "dogs" in Lenny and Mickey works. The ancient mariner's charts were often embelished with the mythical dolphin type sea monster.  It was a favourite.

 
Hello Rich,

Are you porpoisely trying to create pain in my brain? Well, wait a second, on second reflection, I think you may be right; Leo & Mike didn't find their inspiration in dog's heads, I can now see that they modeled their dragon's heads after those of lemmings (I don't know how I missed this originally).
The sea monsters/sea dragons that you refer to on ancient cartography were very similar in appearance (in spite of Carronaders notion that they're foxhounds) to the handles of this French cannon, while dolphins were usually regarded by mariners as benevolent creatures.
Your observation that the curved shape that a dolphin's body takes when its jumping out of the water, would naturally lend itself to the form of a handle is very insightful; K.C. would be proud of you.

Yours truly,
Kenny Bunkport

[thelionspaw]

Actually, dolphins and porpoises were considered the mariners' friend as they held that they would assist an overboard mariner by nudging him to safety.

As for the depiction on the maps as monsters of the deep; there have always been malevolent and benevolent monsters.

Their presence on the artillery, might be interpreted either way?

One thing is for certain, i.e., the leaping shape lends itself well to the function; whereas a griffin doesn't but a canine can.

To belabor a point: I read where the French associated the dolphin with the Dauphine; at least in heraldry. Works for a cannon???

You can blame Boom J for this. He awakened me with an E-mail.

rc

[RocklockI]

Actually, dolphins and porpoises were considered the mariners' friend as they held that they would assist an overboard mariner by nudging him to safety.

As for the depiction on the maps as monsters of the deep; there have always been malevolent and benevolent monsters.

Their presence on the artillery, might be interpreted either way?
One thing is for certain, i.e., the leaping shape lends itself well to the function; whereas a griffin doesn't but a canine can.

To belabor a point: I read where the French associated the dolphin with the Dauphine; at least in heraldry. Works for a cannon???

You can blame Boom J for this. He awakened me with an E-mail.

rc

"interpeted either way"  I GUESS ! benevotent to our guys , and maleovent to those bastagiss .

what is good for us ,sucks if you are them . my dolfins are always angery with rightosness . from the rear anyway . that would be the only direction i would admire them at all ......

[Cannoneer]

You can blame Boom J for this. He awakened me with an E-mail.

Well, don't you think these nappers are getting a little out of hand, this last one lasted for three days.

Don't forget that dolphins like to bow surf, and ancient mariners interpreted this as a good omen.
Personally, I think that any human being that dislikes dolphins must be naturally mean spirited.

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