Author Topic: 7mag to fast for deer? (Read 5816 times)

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #30 on:** August 31, 2009, 07:29:42 AM »

I completely agree with Crash, thus my sarcasm. I apologize if I came off any other way.

jro45 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 03, 2009, 01:20:04 AM »

It doesn't matter if it goes thru the deer or not. What matters is the shot placement.
If it goes thru the deer and doesn't hit any vitals then I would want the bullet to stop in the deer maybe bounce around a little.

rickt300 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 07, 2009, 06:29:49 AM »

Mine isn't too fast. I loaded up some 140 gr. Ballistic Tips on top of 52.0 grs of H414 for around 2800 fps. Nice mild recoil with good enough accuracy of 1 1/2 inches. This rifle shoots better with full power loads but this is what I consider the perfect power level for a 7MM 140 gr. bullet on deer.

Graybeard · « **Reply #33 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:36:03 AM »

In other words you feel the 7-08 is the perfect round for deer hunting? I happen to agree and 2800 fps with a 140 is right smack in the normal velocity range for the 7-08. Mild recoil and excellent performance on game.

nomosendero · « **Reply #34 on:** September 07, 2009, 09:55:31 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on September 07, 2009, 09:36:03 AM

In other words you feel the 7-08 is the perfect round for deer hunting? I happen to agree and 2800 fps with a 140 is right smack in the normal velocity range for the 7-08. Mild recoil and excellent performance on game.

Works as good as anything I am aware of for Deer.

Swampman · « **Reply #35 on:** September 07, 2009, 12:43:41 PM »

I had a really bad experience with the 7mm-08, and went back to the .30-06 for my primary long range deer cartridge. I even quit the .308 length cartridges completely. I've been very happy and slept well ever since.

BBF · « **Reply #36 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:38:03 PM »

My expierence with the 7mm-08 wasn't all that great either using the early type of factory ammo available 140 gr Rem( not a corelokt) on fallow and black tail deer.

I had the rifle rechambered to 284 Win and that was a major improvement using Nosler solid base and PT's.

Swampman · « **Reply #37 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:01:45 PM »

I was using Federal Premium loaded with 140 grain ballistic tips. They went right through the boiler room and out the other side with no apparent effect.

yooper77 · « **Reply #38 on:** September 07, 2009, 02:37:27 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on September 07, 2009, 09:36:03 AM

In other words you feel the 7-08 is the perfect round for deer hunting? I happen to agree and 2800 fps with a 140 is right smack in the normal velocity range for the 7-08. Mild recoil and excellent performance on game.

That’s what ordinary non-magnum bottleneck cartridges do and do well they put down game at around 2700 FPS +/- 100 FSP velocity using ordinary copper cup lead bullets.

The 7mm-08 Remington is absolutely stellar in this department as with any cartridge based on the 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield parent cases.

yooper77

nomosendero · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2009, 03:54:36 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on September 07, 2009, 02:37:27 PM

Quote from: Graybeard on September 07, 2009, 09:36:03 AM
In other words you feel the 7-08 is the perfect round for deer hunting? I happen to agree and 2800 fps with a 140 is right smack in the normal velocity range for the 7-08. Mild recoil and excellent performance on game.

That’s what ordinary non-magnum bottleneck cartridges do and do well they put down game at around 2700 FPS +/- 100 FSP velocity using ordinary copper cup lead bullets.

The 7mm-08 Remington is absolutely stellar in this department as with any cartridge based on the 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield parent cases.

yooper77

People who actually shoot alot of Deer knows that's true.

Swampman · « **Reply #40 on:** September 07, 2009, 03:59:57 PM »

I gotta have confidence in what I'm using.

nomosendero · « **Reply #41 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:18:29 PM »

Swampman
Every time someone mentions the 7-08 here you come with this goofy story. It's just pure ignorance & to people that actually shoot animals with a 7-08 it is a joke. My Wife has zero issues shooting Deer with a 6.5X55 & I sure can't say that the 6.5X55, esp. loaded in her Swede are more powerful than the 7-08, yet it works in grand fashion, as do others with even less power.

You stated earlier "I even quit the 308 cartridges completely." So that would be saying that the 358 Win &
the 338 Fed. are too light for Deer as well. Gotta tell you, that is stupid, a little harsh, but I have been watching this nonsense for 2-3 years.

Mr. Graybeard is a very patient man!!

Graybeard · « **Reply #42 on:** September 07, 2009, 04:45:32 PM »

Swampy merely shows his true ignorance with the kinda comments he makes and then he'll follow it up by telling you he "doesn't think, he knows". What I know is he DOESN'T THINK before he posts.

We have an old M7 7-08 with 18.5" barrel used first by me then by our oldest son and now by Faye. With three of us using it over a time span of over 25 years on all sorts of critters from squirrel to deer to hogs to exotics the gun has NEVER missed, NEVER required a follow up shot. Every time it has been fired on game it has been a one shot kill. EVERY TIME.

Swampy just needs to learn to shoot and where to place bullets. One day he'll tell you a BT will go thru with no effect and another day tell you they blow up on the surface and don't penetrate.

rickt300 · « **Reply #43 on:** September 08, 2009, 05:46:24 AM »

I didn't use Baliistic Tips for years after the solid based bullets were mostly discontinued for two reasons, I really liked the solid base bullets and was pissed about their being discontinued and all the horror stories people were telling about them. About 5 years ago I started hearing the newer versions were fine bullets so I started using them. Now I believe properly used they are the fastest killing bullets I have used on deer, my favorites being the 150 gr. 7mm and the 165 gr. 30 caliber bullets. And yes I consider the 7x57 and the 7-08 to be the perfect deer cartridges.

Swampman · « **Reply #44 on:** September 08, 2009, 11:20:19 AM »

I would have thought 4 heart lung shots on a small whitetail buck would have done the trick. The 5th shot right between the eyes at point blank rage did the job. Maybe the 7mm-08 is ok for head shots. I'll keep my .30-06 thanks!

nomosendero · « **Reply #45 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:12:10 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 08, 2009, 11:20:19 AM

I would have thought 4 heart lung shots on a small whitetail buck would have done the trick. The 5th shot right between the eyes at point blank rage did the job. Maybe the 7mm-08 is ok for head shots. I'll keep my .30-06 thanks!

I was tempted to delete the post but decided it would be better for everyone to be entertained with this
TOTAL NONSENSE!!

Swampman · « **Reply #46 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:21:13 PM »

We did a real through autopsy. Hole in hole out....say what you like. The fellow that helped me do it was an experienced veteranian.

nomosendero · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:34:22 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 08, 2009, 01:21:13 PM

We did a real through autopsy. Hole in hole out....say what you like. The fellow that helped me do it was an experienced veteranian.

Or was he a Vegetarian?

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #48 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:42:37 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 07, 2009, 02:01:45 PM

I was using Federal Premium loaded with 140 grain ballistic tips. They went right through the boiler room and out the other side with no apparent effect.

Quote from: Swampman on September 08, 2009, 11:20:19 AM

I would have thought 4 heart lung shots on a small whitetail buck would have done the trick. The 5th shot right between the eyes at point blank rage did the job. Maybe the 7mm-08 is ok for head shots. I'll keep my .30-06 thanks!

Federal loads the 7mm-08 140g BT to 2800fps. At 400yards it is still doing almost 2100fps with over 1360fpe, easily enough to cause reliable expansion.

I’m calling “B.S.” on this – we’re not getting the whole story.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #49 on:** September 08, 2009, 01:49:11 PM »

It was probably a DNR decoy that took 4 shots through the "boiler room" I would like to see the marksman that can shoot a deer 4 times thru the lungs, then one in the head! I call BS on this story too.

squirrellluck · « **Reply #50 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:11:22 PM »

I can put 4 thru the heart/lungs and 1 in the head but ammo is expiensive and why shoot it 4 more times after its dead??

mechanic · « **Reply #51 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:25:14 PM »

Back to the man's original question.....just about any centerfire rifle will kill deer. Some will kill at greater distances. Some will blow a bigger hole. With the proper bullet and the proper placement, all should kill deer. Most of the time when they don't, I betcha' it's one of the two reasons I stated. If you know your gun's limits and stay within them, and learn to HIT where you aim, there is no reason not to kill deer. The deer I have shot at and not killed were either poor shots, or using the wrong ammo. In the latter case, the deer died I am sure, just not where I could trail them. To my knowledge, I've let three get away, one was a clean miss. If a 7 mag. won't kill a deer, theres not much use trying. Just use an expanding bullet and put it in the vitals.

yooper77 · « **Reply #52 on:** September 08, 2009, 04:31:35 PM »

Quote from: mirage1988 on September 08, 2009, 01:49:11 PM

It was probably a DNR decoy that took 4 shots through the "boiler room" I would like to see the marksman that can shoot a deer 4 times thru the lungs, then one in the head! I call BS on this story too.

Great point, I have heard poachers said to the game wardens that they actually seen the decoys breath.

yooper77

nomosendero · « **Reply #53 on:** September 08, 2009, 04:46:58 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on September 08, 2009, 04:31:35 PM

Quote from: mirage1988 on September 08, 2009, 01:49:11 PM
It was probably a DNR decoy that took 4 shots through the "boiler room" I would like to see the marksman that can shoot a deer 4 times thru the lungs, then one in the head! I call BS on this story too.

Great point, I have heard poachers said to the game wardens that they actually seen the decoys breath.

yooper77

Yea, but what about the Vegetarian that did the autospy?

mirage1988 · « **Reply #54 on:** September 08, 2009, 05:05:54 PM »

Not sure but,
The few dozen deer that I have shot in "the boiler room" have either tipped over in their tracks (bang flop), or the death run (40-80 yards with their eyes shut). I have yet to see one stand there and let me shoot three more into the "boiler room", then a finisher into the head!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #55 on:** September 09, 2009, 03:48:45 AM »

Quote from: mirage1988 on September 08, 2009, 05:05:54 PM

Not sure but,
The few dozen deer that I have shot in "the boiler room" have either tipped over in their tracks (bang flop), or the death run (40-80 yards with their eyes shut). I have yet to see one stand there and let me shoot three more into the "boiler room", then a finisher into the head!

An antelope that I shot at 297 measured yards with my 7mm RM failed to behave as desired. The load was 160g Barnes XLC’s, launched at over 3000fps, which had proven inconsistent on coyotes as well. One coyote was pretty torn up. The other, at about 100 yards, dropped straight down and try as I might I could not find either the entrance or an exit wound. (I did not skin it out.)

The antelope took the first bullet through the lungs. It hung its head and coughed up blood for quite a long time. A second bullet, also through the chest, caused it to lay down, but it kept its head up as if sunning itself. I worked my way around the hill and, from about 100-125 yards, got ready to shoot it a third time. The buck struggled to its feet and took a couple faltering steps before I hit it in the ribs with a quartering away shot.

On autopsy only the third bullet track showed much evidence of expansion. Nevertheless, each of the first two definitely caused big problems for the antelope as opposed to the “no apparent effect” claimed by Swampgas on his deer.

Given that experience, I will accept that bullets that don’t expand can fail to provide the desired results. I doubt the Ballistic Tips failed to expand, however, and I completely reject the “no apparent effect” claim based on Swampgas’s own statement that “The 5th shot right between the eyes at point blank rage did the job.”

Swampgas wants us to believe the first four shots had “no apparent effect” but the deer just let him walk up and shoot it between the eyes?

As I said, were not getting the whole story - or even a reasonably accurate one.

Considering the source, I’m not surprised.

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #56 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:07:02 AM »

Must be the new FMJ version of the Ballistic Tips, can't seem to find those in any of our retail stores around here...
I can relate though, I've had fixed blade broadheads go through deer without expanding, had to give one in the noggin' to shut the lights out

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:16:18 AM »

is the 7mm to fast for deer ? well how fast was the truck going when your frind shot those deer ?
was drinking involved ?

does he think the 7mm kills as dead as say an 06 ? ( they can be very close in preformance of the bullet you know )

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #58 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:20:54 AM »

I to have used the 708 great deer gun , the 7X30 is good also and quick .
BTW not one 120 gr fp bullet from my 7X30 has remained in the couple doz deer i have killed with it and most dropped at the shot or only went a few steps , even the ones running when shot .

yooper77 · « **Reply #59 on:** September 09, 2009, 06:23:44 AM »

Quote from: Coyote Hunter on September 09, 2009, 03:48:45 AM

An antelope that I shot at 297 measured yards with my 7mm RM failed to behave as desired. The load was 160g Barnes XLC’s, launched at over 3000fps, which had proven inconsistent on coyotes as well. One coyote was pretty torn up. The other, at about 100 yards, dropped straight down and try as I might I could not find either the entrance or an exit wound. (I did not skin it out.)
The antelope took the first bullet through the lungs. It hung its head and coughed up blood for quite a long time. A second bullet, also through the chest, caused it to lay down, but it kept its head up as if sunning itself. I worked my way around the hill and, from about 100-125 yards, got ready to shoot it a third time. The buck struggled to its feet and took a couple faltering steps before I hit it in the ribs with a quartering away shot.

On autopsy only the third bullet track showed much evidence of expansion. Nevertheless, each of the first two definitely caused big problems for the antelope as opposed to the “no apparent effect” claimed by Swampgas on his deer.

Given that experience, I will accept that bullets that don’t expand can fail to provide the desired results. I doubt the Ballistic Tips failed to expand, however, and I completely reject the “no apparent effect” claim based on Swampgas’s own statement that “The 5th shot right between the eyes at point blank rage did the job.”

I have never and will never use Barnes X- bullets because I saw the same thing happen to my buddy using a 25-06 Remington and 100 grain Barnes X-bullets. He shot the antelope lengthwise from chest to tail and the bullet failed to expand. There was the same size hole from entrance to exit.

I have used Hornady Interlock’s, Nosler Ballistic Tips and Partitions and never have failed to expand to include the 100 grain Nosler Partition out of my 243 Winchester at 300 yard Antelope.

I have used the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips out of my 270 Winchester for deer and they always expand violently every time.

yooper77