Author Topic: spine shots  (Read 2127 times)

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Offline catdaddy

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spine shots
« on: August 29, 2009, 03:05:16 PM »
what will the outcome be if a misplaced arrow hits the lower spine. ???

Offline Graybeard

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2009, 06:10:11 PM »
Didn't realize deer even hand an upper and lower spine.  :o

I made a poor hit once and it went into the spine. Result was the ONLY deer I've shot with a bow that fell dead rat there and didn't go anywhere.


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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2009, 06:51:29 PM »
Well the one I hit that way layed there and made the most pathetic bleating noise you can imagine. Second shot quickly ended the event. Don't know how long it may have taken to bleed out. I would not take a chance and wait as you might just "stun" the spinal cord not sever it.
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Offline 41 mag

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 12:11:47 AM »
My first archery buck this past fall was a bad hit. At 7:00 am, it came walking up a road under my stand and stopped broadside at 20yds on the money. When the release broke, he evidently tried to duck the arrow but it caught him square between the shoulder blades, and out his lower abdomen just in front of his offside ham.

At impact he was nearly knocked off his feet, and about two feet sideways. He took off somewhat peculiar running into and through the small trees and brush. I knew it was a good hit, but wasn't sure just where. After 15 minutes of quiet, I eased down to find the arrow covered in the unmistakable green stuff. At this point I had no idea of how a lower lung shot could have resulted in this sort of hit, so we waited several hours before tracking him up. He made it to adound 70 yds from the initial hit and laid up in some 6' tall weeds, where we walked within feet of him several times but didn't see him. There was only three drops of blood along the whole way, and after some of the stuff I went through could have easily been mine. We did find him with the help of the buzzards late that evening, but with the 89 degree temps and them doing what they do best, all I managed to salvage was the tagged horns.

The broadhead opened up an almost 3" hole throught he spine and hide, blowing vertabre and muscle apart as it went through. When inspecting the inpact and exit wound it was a wonder he made it one step much less as far as he did.

IF your aiming for this shot, DON'T. It is a makeable shot, however it wil not be reliable and will result in most cases of a very long tracking job and/or as previously mentioned a slow agonizing expiration of the animal. Stuff happens like in my case and I am sure others, but the best thing is to wait for the broadside shot that will allow you to put the arrow into the vitals directly.

Offline catdaddy

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 12:01:57 PM »
thats what i mean,if hes standing broadside and the arrow clips his lower back

Offline Graybeard

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 12:52:00 PM »
My shot was from a platform 16' high with me standing looking down on the doe from at most 15 yards. She ducked at the shot and it caught the spine and severed it right above the aiming point which had been lungs. The arrow could be seen sticking out with minimal penetration from the stand. She was down for the count so no need to shoot again for me. I'd sure not try for such a shot on purpose.


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Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 05:33:48 PM »
Alright fellas!  My son stuck a nice 3X3 Mulie right in the spine a bunch of years ago.  Deer dropped n started dragging himself around with the front hooves. Son of a gun rolls over, breaks the arrow (aluminum) gets up n walks away like nothing happened!!! Broke off about 4" of arrow n broadhead, took it with him!

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 03:46:33 AM »
Illustrates my point about "stunning" them. Spine obviously wasn't severed, a second arrow quickly applied wouda anchored him.
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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 06:05:49 AM »
Spined one a few years back from about 25 yards, stand on a hillside sharp downhill angle, should have known to shoot plenty low, apparently not low enough. Dropped him immediately, dragging his butt downhill, got down and finished him from about ten yards. Not something you want to see or do if you can avoid it.
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Offline a45gunslinger

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 04:48:33 PM »
I used to spine deer all the time, I had a really loud bow and they would try to duck the arrow..I used to hold at the bottom of the heart because i new they would react this way.. there was an awful lot of racket and some uncomfortable second shots..so I got a newer quieter bow.- kevin

Offline Mohawk

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2009, 05:10:21 PM »
My shot was from a platform 16' high with me standing looking down on the doe from at most 15 yards. She ducked at the shot and it caught the spine and severed it right above the aiming point which had been lungs. The arrow could be seen sticking out with minimal penetration from the stand. She was down for the count so no need to shoot again for me. I'd sure not try for such a shot on purpose.

  I got my first deer with a crossbow a couple of weeks ago and hit mine exactly where GB hit his deer. BUT, mine did not drop and die like GB's. I could see my arrow sticking out exactly the way GB described his. The deer dragged itself across the ranch road and to the edge of the brush. But whatever the broadhead did, it was permanent not stunned, as the deer layed up quickly and could barely move much less stand or run.  I was able to walk up and finish it off with a rock to the head, ending it quickly. Two inches lower would have been a good high lung hit.

Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 07:56:29 PM »
Empty, he was drawing the 2d arrow but, well, we all had that WT? look as he left the scene.

Offline horseman308

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 01:27:09 AM »
Last year, I shot two with spine shots. It was NOT on purpose. I don't really know what happened, other than they probably moved a bitat the time I released. Both of them feel where they stood, but thrashed around b/c their back legs no longer worked. It took another arrow (to the lungs on one and the jugular on the other) to finish each one. I gotta tell you, it was one of the worst feelings I've had on the first one - even worse the second time. It's not something I want to repeat.
You only take one shot at a time, so don't waste it :cb2:

Offline Graybeard

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 02:54:48 AM »
A spine hit too far back will allow a deer to drag itself away using front feet. I've had that happen twice with a muzzle loader. Both were running and both hits to spine were behind the center of deer. One I was on the ground and quickly got to it to finish it off. The other I was in a tree and by the time I got reloaded it was out of range and by the time I got down it was out of sight. I trailed it quite aways but then the trail just ended. I was in a WMA and I think someone else got the deer. I figure it crawled up to where another hunter was and he finished it off and took it away quickly before I got there. I gurantee you that one didn't magically get up and walk away.

I'd never intentionally aim for a spine shot unless in the neck and personally don't aim for it there either but if you sever it above the lungs the deer ain't going anywhere. Further back and it almost certainly will drag itself with front legs.


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Offline BUCKDUSTER

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 03:18:35 AM »
there is an area below the spine and above the vitals that an arrow can pass thru without being a fatal shot. kinda a no-mans-land.  on smaller deer the broadhead will probly hit the artery and they wwon't go far at all, but large deer there is a section where you may find a blood trail for a short distance, than it will pitter out.  happened to me on a big buck that my friend shot a month abd a half later.  the wound was healed and there was a scar and missing hair where my arrow passed thru.  my broadhead actually deflected internally of the shoulder blade.  muzzy 3 blade.  i switched broadheads to rage 2 blade and killed 3 deer with them.  excellent broadhead in my opinion.  typically if you hit the spine, they dont go much further.

Offline snapcrackpop

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 04:00:51 AM »
THERE IS NO VOID!

The lungs actually go above the vertebral body of the spine in some places.
It might be possible (but extreamly unlikely) that your could hit a deer in one or two lungs and it would still survive.

The other fact is that the spinal cord is a few inches below the top of the back, especially at the shoulders.  So you could shoot below the skin, but above the spinal cord (backstrap area).
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 08:15:21 AM »
http://trailcameras.net/hunting-blog/bow-hunting-shot-placement.php



  The "No-Kill" zone sounds physiologically sound to me. These shots don't look they were placed that bad.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 05:41:19 PM »
A problem with your no mans land scenario is what they call collapsed lung land. you don't just ventalate the chest cavity and go on about your life like nothing happened. More likely the arrow is quicker than the eye, what happened and what you think happened are similar but not the same.
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 07:13:28 PM »
A problem with your no mans land scenario is what they call collapsed lung land. you don't just ventalate the chest cavity and go on about your life like nothing happened. More likely the arrow is quicker than the eye, what happened and what you think happened are similar but not the same.

   Very True! But I've seen deer living normally with injuries that no human could ever withstand. The highest population of white-tailed deer in the world are concentrated in my area, along with heavy vehicle traffic. Broken hips, broken backs, even broken necks( had a deer at the office we named "Tilt" because his neck was stuck to one side, probably due to an auto collision. Didn't stop him from chasing does, though ;) ) I could very well see a deer, or any animal, surviving a traumatic chest cavity decompression event and moving on with their lives. Animals are much, much, much, much, tougher than people.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2009, 05:55:32 AM »
Living without breathing would be tough at best. I suppose the hole could be plugged by fat. but any hard work before it were to plug would tend to ruin the plug. This is the best arguement for a three or four blade broadhead I can think of. No way for the broadhead to turn and not break a rib, or at least make a bigger harder to plug hole in chest cavity. I read an article in a bow mag yrs ago that very succesfully argued that a chest shot deer would die of asphixiation before they bled out.

I have witnessed what I believe is this scenario several times. Deer runs full tilt for about 20 seconds after shot. Then just bags up and tumbles, this is where I believe the deer passes out from a lack of oxygen. In another few seconds the deer struggles and may even get to its feet, goes a few steps and falls over to not move again. This is when I believe the deer actually bleeds out, is in these last 40 seconds or so. A liver hit deer bleeds out only, if you fail to get inside the chest cavity with your arrow. That is a mortally hit deer, but as many know it's going to take a lot longer time for that deer to bag up. The blood keeps clotting and trying to do its job. What blood is left if perfectly good unlike the chest hit deer who's blood is oxygen starved and needing to be pumped twice as fast to do the same amount of work supplying muscles with oxygen.

Never is a strong word when it comes to deer. I'm just saying that a chest wound is awfully hard to overcome. Lots of biological reasons argue against survival. Deer are indeed tough though, and like I said never is a strong word to be used in a sentence with deer.
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Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: spine shots
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2009, 03:33:05 PM »
Empty, we watched a liver hit for 1hr 45mns! Last 30 mins or so looked like a drunk with his head bobbing.

Cant really beat that chest cavity hit. Gets em every time. Have seen a few look like had gone thru the upper cavity but really passed thru the strap.