Author Topic: Glock Life Expectancy (Read 16138 times)

Tonk · « **Reply #30 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:07:13 AM »

Lawndart......I venture to say, that a new Glock in calibers of 9mm Luger, .40cal Smith & Wesson will last you some where in the 200,000 rounds fired. The .357-Sig or the 10mm may not go that far, simply because they are more horsepower but that is NOT a given, just my own personal conclusion OK.

Glock did a test with a 9mm Luger, firing it over 250,000 rounds and the pistol was still working with NO JAMS or Malfunctions or any kind. The average handgun owner might fire 2000 rounds a year, so that is several generations to come in your family. I have friend, who has had a Glock 9mm Luger for over 18 years and he has well over 300,000 rounds put through that pistol. He has replaced ALL working parts with Glock factory parts only. His pistols shoots 2.5 inch groups at 20 yards!

teddy12b · « **Reply #31 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:29:28 AM »

I've been thinking about about a 9mm glock, and this thread has been a great read. I have heard that there is supposed to be a fourth generation of glocks coming out in 2010. I guess they are going to have the different grip inserts like many polymer handguns have these days. Once the new ones come out, I'll be jumping on the old ones they'll want to clear off the shelves.

Tonk · « **Reply #32 on:** October 31, 2009, 02:47:00 AM »

Teddy-12, most places have been having sales on the Glocks in certain calibers such as the 9mm and the .40 cal. In my area there are a half dozen places that are selling them for $499 dollars. The Kimber's are going for $1000 bucks or better, Sigs are selling for the price of $750 to $875 dollars and this makes those GLOCK prices seem awfully nice one's pocket book!!!

teddy12b · « **Reply #33 on:** October 31, 2009, 05:38:10 AM »

I still think there will be some bigger sales next year. I don't think the 3rd generation glocks got all the love the other generations had gotten and once the fourth comes out, I think the older models will get a lot cheaper. Cabelas has those gen1 glocks for around $350 remanufactured or something like that.

Tonk · « **Reply #34 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:59:54 AM »

Teddy-B, I'll sum things up at this household by saying that we have the Colts, Springfields, Smith & Wessons and Kimbers. However, our CCW tools are both Glocks. I use the model 21-SF .45acp in a crossdraw holster (sitting in a vehicle) and model 29 - 10mm on my right hip most of the time

teddy12b · « **Reply #35 on:** November 17, 2009, 01:20:16 PM »

I've held many glocks here lately, but I just don't know if I live with that grip angle and the feel of the gun. I've tried, and tried to make myself love the glocks that I've held, but they just don't have that fits like a glove feel to me.

Keith L · « **Reply #36 on:** November 17, 2009, 01:40:31 PM »

Quote from: teddy12b on November 17, 2009, 01:20:16 PM

I've held many glocks here lately, but I just don't know if I live with that grip angle and the feel of the gun. I've tried, and tried to make myself love the glocks that I've held, but they just don't have that fits like a glove feel to me.

Then its easy: don't get one. Life is too short to make yourself comfortable with something you can't. I happen to feel it is a great tool. If you don't, then get what you are confident will work for you, and more power to you.

teddy12b · « **Reply #37 on:** November 18, 2009, 03:44:33 AM »

I still agree that it's a great tool if not the best, I just wish it would have worked out better for me.

Tonk · « **Reply #38 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:39:26 AM »

Teddy12B.......I won't say that Glocks are the best for everybody because everybody does have a different hand etc. However, if a Glock won't work, I am positive that a Sig or H&K, Springfield will get the job done for 90% of most people out there in gunland.

My wife loves the smooth feel of the Sig Sauer but can NOT negotiate that first double action shot to hit the target! I have addressed the 10-lb trigger pull with new spring kit, now down too 5.5-lb on first pull of trigger......however she will have to carry an extra magazine because the Sig P-239 only holds 7 rounds, where the Glock holds 14. She also hits the target on the first shot everytime and that is more important than feel anyday.

kdhibbs · « **Reply #39 on:** March 01, 2010, 06:00:03 AM »

This read reminds me of my first Glock, which I still have. Acquired it from the shop where I worked about the time Slick Willie's '94 crime bill became law. I was skeptical of the "plastic"...so I put the lower end in out solvent tank for about 6 months...got dirty but washed off ok...NO discoloration or fading or softening/brittleness. Then I figured this "plastic" would crap in the sunlight test...put it on the dash of a Ford PU truck for about six months...truck had no engine and was oriented to the south...after about 6 months I retrieved gun (it was never turned over) and I figured that it would be faded and brittle.....NOT SO...and I still carry this Glock 19 daily in an ankle holster.

There may be other more scientific torture tests...but my Glock passed my test...with flying colors....and now I heartily endorse/recommend them.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2010, 06:03:14 AM »

Now that's what i was wondering about thanks

demented · « **Reply #41 on:** March 05, 2010, 05:40:53 PM »

I know of a rental model 17 that at last count was over 110,000 and counting. The owner was fussing because the magazines wore out at about 5000 rnds and the mag latch on the gun itself had to be replaced every 25,000 rounds or so. So for any practical use, I'd have to say they can't be worn out.

glockman55 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 06, 2010, 02:25:55 PM »

Quote from: Lawndart on September 03, 2009, 03:13:52 PM

At what point would ya'll start to expect problems from a Glock? 2000? 5000? 10000? I know it's a hard question, with a ton of variables, I just was curious.

No one knows yet, not one Glock has died yet, We'll let you know when that happens..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:16:27 AM »

Well that's not quite true , I had one that was a police trade in that was supposed to be factory checked . It was well worn and the night sights were at least 8 years old ( dated ) . The gun would not feed any ammo not one time from any mag. The gun shop took the gun out and tried it and experinced same . They sent it to Glock and they returned what looked like a newer gun . All parts except the frame was new and the frame looked cleaned up better than expected ( gun had same ser # ) .The gun worked perfect on return . They sent 2 extra mags for my trouble . The shop seemed to think they can destory a gun and replace it using same ser # , I really have no idea .

glockman55 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:45:15 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 08, 2010, 02:16:27 AM

Well that's not quite true , I had one that was a police trade in that was supposed to be factory checked . It was well worn and the night sights were at least 8 years old ( dated ) . The gun would not feed any ammo not one time from any mag. The gun shop took the gun out and tried it and experinced same . They sent it to Glock and they returned what looked like a newer gun . All parts except the frame was new and the frame looked cleaned up better than expected ( gun had same ser # ) .The gun worked perfect on return . They sent 2 extra mags for my trouble . The shop seemed to think they can destory a gun and replace it using same ser # , I really have no idea .

And what was the cost to you?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:51:28 AM »

Nothing , they picked up shipping . The deal was if it was a bad gun the factory would pay all . If it was not they would run gun thru. their check and I would pay shipping both ways . They have very few problems to hear them tell it . On a side note my son who leaves his mags on his dash has had 2 split from being left in the sun . They will replace them also.

glockman55 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 08, 2010, 02:57:14 AM »

Thats great..can't get much better than that, for a gun you bought used..

teddy12b · « **Reply #47 on:** March 08, 2010, 04:04:04 AM »

Quote from: glockman55 on March 08, 2010, 02:57:14 AM

Thats great..can't get much better than that, for a gun you bought used..

Well said. That's great service from a company that stands behind their products.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #48 on:** March 08, 2010, 04:06:06 AM »

I agree but have to ask if the problem should exist ? Seems the sun effects mags .

4sooth · « **Reply #49 on:** January 23, 2012, 03:14:05 PM »

I have a second generation G17 which has not been cleaned since 1996 and has between 20,000-30,000 rounds through it with no malfunctions. Some local shooters have more than 100,000 rounds through their Glocks.

JeffG · « **Reply #50 on:** January 25, 2012, 07:06:01 AM »

I am the senior firearms trainer for a small municipal police department. We have several Glock 23 40cals that have an estimated 20,000 rounds through them...thats twenty thousand. They are in holsters,on duty as we speak. None of them have ever had a malfunction attributable to the gun. we have pre-emptively replaced small parts, but NONE HAVE EVER FAILED. I feel this is impressive. How many personal guns have you put this number of rounds through?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #51 on:** January 25, 2012, 07:14:51 AM »

There are 1st gen Glocks with frame failure . It would seem age more than round count is the problem. This is a problem with plastics in other products they get brittle over time. Military and police change out weapons on a reg basis the guy buying that one gun needs to consider the life of the gun .

mdwest · « **Reply #52 on:** January 25, 2012, 08:01:07 AM »

My G22 saw about 30,000 rounds before I traded it off a few years back.. I replaced the springs about every 10,000 rounds.. other than that.. it never needed any maintenance beyond cleaning..

Ive got a G19 now that has had roughly 10,000 rounds through it.. not a single hiccup so far..

both guns are 3rd gen glocks..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #53 on:** January 25, 2012, 08:03:44 AM »

My son has had 2 G19 mags split . His gun is first gen.

Glock Doctor · « **Reply #54 on:** February 03, 2012, 04:55:05 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 25, 2012, 08:03:44 AM

My son has had 2 G19 mags split . His gun is first gen.

OK, but that’s not really an, ‘apples for apples’ comparison. I’ll betcha those split magazines were of early non-metal lined/non-drop free design. Today’s metal lined/drop free magazines would not do that.

Now -

Hmmm, ……. At the moment I’ve got a relatively early (‘FCE’ prefix range) 3rd generation Glock Model 21 lying on top of my desk. It’s my EDC piece, shows some slide and frame wear, and has a good 13,000 to 15,000 rounds of (often) hot ammo through it. The springs and things on the inside are periodically replaced; and this pistol is in (Ready?) 100% perfect mechanical condition. With less than 20,000 rounds through it, I consider my Glock to be, ‘brand new’; and I really don’t think I’m that far off in the opinion. Sure as heck, I’m not going to be running out to buy something new and replace my usual EDC - What for?

Glock pistol longevity has long been a favorite topic of mine. Years ago it was my main objection to buying a, ‘plastic pistol’ and the principal reason, ‘Why’ I waited for more than 15 years to purchase my first Glock. (Which was acquired less than 6 months before the one that’s sitting on my desk right now.)

A local, ‘pay to shoot’ public gun range near my house has an early (2nd generation) Glock Model 17 that is presently working on its second 1/2 million rounds. Four or Five years ago it went back to the factory for a new barrel and replacement of most internal parts. This pistol is, only, rarely cleaned. It just keeps getting rented out, and shooting, and shooting, and shooting all day long.

What’s the first thing to go on a Glock? That would be the RSA. What’s the second thing? It might be the: trigger spring, the SLB, or the FP safety spring; but, on this pistol it was the barrel. At some point after, about, the 300 to 350,000 round mark the lands and grooves began to smooth out; and, as the round count approached 500,000 they completely disappeared. If the range owner thinks there’s anything remarkable about this G-17 it would have to be that nobody ever does anything to it in order to keep it up and running. Sometimes when it starts to, ‘get sluggish’ he’ll have one of the guys clean it; but, that’s about it.

So, in addition to a few chemical solvents, what is known to be destructive to Glock plastic? In the short term that would be hot water. Once water temperature climbs above 120 degrees you don’t want to be immersing your Glock frame into it; and exposing your Glock frame to boiling water (212 degrees) is just plain stupid - stupid!

Never happen, you say! Well, not too long ago there was a rash of, ‘pig nosed’ dust cover complaints running rampant on Glock Talk. The ill-considered and poorly informed popular fix became boiling some of these, ‘pig nosed’ dust covers in hot water for up to 3 minutes before straightening them out by pressing them down along a flat surface.

Yes, this hot water immersion of the front of a Glock frame did get rid of the, ‘pig nose’. Problem is that several months later the boiled polyamide would revert to its original shape, and that, (presumably undesirable) ‘pig nose would reappear. Even worse, Glock’s, ‘Nylon 6’ (A polyamide usually marketed under the trade name of DuPont, ‘Zytel’.) would, thereafter, lose a significant percentage of its hardness and durability.

All I can say is that it’s too bad more of the young pistoleros over at Glock Talk didn’t realize that polymer frames vibrate violently whenever a plastic pistol is fired; and that, ‘pig nose’ so many of the young ‘uns were so anxious to get rid of, in reality, worked as an additional mechanical stabilizer between the metal slide and rapidly vibrating plastic frame. Once Glock’s, ‘Nylon 6’ (polyamide) is boiled it will never again return to its original strength or structural integrity.

The long term enemy of Glock’s plastic frames is ultraviolet radiation or sunlight; and here is the best reason I know for, ‘Why’ all polymer pistol frames should be BLACK rather than any other color. It is the addition of, ‘carbon black’ to polyamide plastic pistol frames that prevents them from deteriorating excessively when routinely exposed to strong sunlight. *

Several well regarded tests have already been made to study this ultraviolet degradation phenomenon on modern plastics. (You can look them up; but, the artistic plastic tests conducted by the Museum of Modern Art come quickly to mind.) From what I’ve read, 'Nylon 6' - with the addition of 2-3% carbon black - has shown virtually no structural degradation up to a projected lifespan of approximately 100 years. (This would make Glock’s black-colored pistol frames even more durable than traditional gun steel!)

I’ve, also, read comments made by Gaston Glock that exalt the fact Glock frames are NOT, ‘glass reinforced’ and consequently are largely impervious to extremely cold weather. (I don’t know; but, this is what I’ve read in Glock’s own literature.) **

* A poster who goes by the screen name of, ‘GoGoGophers’ on Glock Talk has written a number of informative posts on this subject.

** My own Glock pistol buying days are over. I despise what’s going on with current production Glock pistols and, especially, with late 3rd and all 4th generation models.

Those Glock pistols I presently own were all manufactured BEFORE June of 2010. From now on I’m, ‘playing a pat hand’ and staying with what I’ve got. My Glocks have: Better metal finishes, better RSA’s, better trigger bars, better extractors, better ejectors, and - in my opinion - better magazine release buttons too.

As for those new interchangeable backstraps? As far as I’m concerned they’re just, ‘tits on a bull’. Ain’t going to do anything for my ability to hit the target. A pistol shooter, either, possesses an inherent ability to shoot straight or he don’t; and a different backstrap ain't going to make any real difference at all.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #55 on:** February 03, 2012, 06:53:35 AM »

Quote from: Glock Doctor on February 03, 2012, 04:55:05 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 25, 2012, 08:03:44 AM
My son has had 2 G19 mags split . His gun is first gen.
Yep
OK, but that’s not really an, ‘apples for apples’ comparison. I’ll betcha those split magazines were of early non-metal lined/non-drop free design. Today’s metal lined/drop free magazines would not do that. Yes one was the other I'm not sure but it may have been lined. That said it was still a product they put on the market . I didn't see where it was limited to only certian products.

Now -

Hmmm, ……. At the moment I’ve got a relatively early (‘FCE’ prefix range) 3rd generation Glock Model 21 lying on top of my desk. It’s my EDC piece, shows some slide and frame wear, and has a good 13,000 to 15,000 rounds of (often) hot ammo through it. The springs and things on the inside are periodically replaced; and this pistol is in (Ready?) 100% perfect mechanical condition. With less than 20,000 rounds through it, I consider my Glock to be, ‘brand new’; and I really don’t think I’m that far off in the opinion. Sure as heck, I’m not going to be running out to buy something new and replace my usual EDC - What for? Its not about round count its about age with plastics . I agree Glocks run up impressive round counts with out failure.

Glock pistol longevity has long been a favorite topic of mine. Years ago it was my main objection to buying a, ‘plastic pistol’ and the principal reason, ‘Why’ I waited for more than 15 years to purchase my first Glock. (Which was acquired less than 6 months before the one that’s sitting on my desk right now.)

A local, ‘pay to shoot’ public gun range near my house has an early (2nd generation) Glock Model 17 that is presently working on its second 1/2 million rounds. Four or Five years ago it went back to the factory for a new barrel and replacement of most internal parts. This pistol is, only, rarely cleaned. It just keeps getting rented out, and shooting, and shooting, and shooting all day long. There are reports of Glock frame failure on 1st gen guns , the factory is replacing them but as yet has not issued a recall. Time will tell if this is a problem or not.

What’s the first thing to go on a Glock? That would be the RSA. What’s the second thing? It might be the: trigger spring, the SLB, or the FP safety spring; but, on this pistol it was the barrel. At some point after, about, the 300 to 350,000 round mark the lands and grooves began to smooth out; and, as the round count approached 500,000 they completely disappeared. If the range owner thinks there’s anything remarkable about this G-17 it would have to be that nobody ever does anything to it in order to keep it up and running. Sometimes when it starts to, ‘get sluggish’ he’ll have one of the guys clean it; but, that’s about it.

So, in addition to a few chemical solvents, what is known to be destructive to Glock plastic? In the short term that would be hot water. Once water temperature climbs above 120 degrees you don’t want to be immersing your Glock frame into it; and exposing your Glock frame to boiling water (212 degrees) is just plain stupid - stupid! That is a good point but in some situations Glock rec that heat in normal use.

Never happen, you say! Well, not too long ago there was a rash of, ‘pig nosed’ dust cover complaints running rampant on Glock Talk. The ill-considered and poorly informed popular fix became boiling some of these, ‘pig nosed’ dust covers in hot water for up to 3 minutes before straightening them out by pressing them down along a flat surface.

Yes, this hot water immersion of the front of a Glock frame did get rid of the, ‘pig nose’. Problem is that several months later the boiled polyamide would revert to its original shape, and that, (presumably undesirable) ‘pig nose would reappear. Even worse, Glock’s, ‘Nylon 6’ (A polyamide usually marketed under the trade name of DuPont, ‘Zytel’.) would, thereafter, lose a significant percentage of its hardness and durability.

All I can say is that it’s too bad more of the young pistoleros over at Glock Talk didn’t realize that polymer frames vibrate violently whenever a plastic pistol is fired; and that, ‘pig nose’ so many of the young ‘uns were so anxious to get rid of, in reality, worked as an additional mechanical stabilizer between the metal slide and rapidly vibrating plastic frame. Once Glock’s, ‘Nylon 6’ (polyamide) is boiled it will never again return to its original strength or structural integrity.

The long term enemy of Glock’s plastic frames is ultraviolet radiation or sunlight; and here is the best reason I know for, ‘Why’ all polymer pistol frames should be BLACK rather than any other color. It is the addition of, ‘carbon black’ to polyamide plastic pistol frames that prevents them from deteriorating excessively when routinely exposed to strong sunlight. *
The mags that split were both exposed to sun light alot. Your point and our experince shows a weakness or condition that must be addressed ( which is my point ) with reguard to life expt.
Several well regarded tests have already been made to study this ultraviolet degradation phenomenon on modern plastics. (You can look them up; but, the artistic plastic tests conducted by the Museum of Modern Art come quickly to mind.) From what I’ve read, 'Nylon 6' - with the addition of 2-3% carbon black - has shown virtually no structural degradation up to a projected lifespan of approximately 100 years. (This would make Glock’s black-colored pistol frames even more durable than traditional gun steel!) They say the same about piping which has not lived up to the testing, and like Glock the product is replaced but as of yet no recall . Until 100 years pass by the test well aren't real time test. I mean is there a pcs of plastic like the Glock frame is made from a 100 years old to review ?

I’ve, also, read comments made by Gaston Glock that exalt the fact Glock frames are NOT, ‘glass reinforced’ and consequently are largely impervious to extremely cold weather. (I don’t know; but, this is what I’ve read in Glock’s own literature.) **

* A poster who goes by the screen name of, ‘GoGoGophers’ on Glock Talk has written a number of informative posts on this subject.

** My own Glock pistol buying days are over. I despise what’s going on with current production Glock pistols and, especially, with late 3rd and all 4th generation models.

Those Glock pistols I presently own were all manufactured BEFORE June of 2010. From now on I’m, ‘playing a pat hand’ and staying with what I’ve got. My Glocks have: Better metal finishes, better RSA’s, better trigger bars, better extractors, better ejectors, and - in my opinion - better magazine release buttons too.

As for those new interchangeable backstraps? As far as I’m concerned they’re just, ‘tits on a bull’. Ain’t going to do anything for my ability to hit the target. A pistol shooter, either, possesses an inherent ability to shoot straight or he don’t; and a different backstrap ain't going to make any real difference at all.

Glock Doctor · « **Reply #56 on:** February 03, 2012, 08:26:23 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL

Yes one was the other I'm not sure but it may have been lined. That said it was still a product they put on the market. I didn't see where it was limited to only certain products.

OK, I’m not arguing the point; but problems with Glock magazine bodies are very rare! In more than 10 years of doing this I’m only aware of mag body problems with the NML/NDF magazine bodies. With the possible exception of a few magazine lip problems, I’m not aware of anything else going wrong with Glock’s mag bodies - Exactly the opposite, in fact they seem to stand up to hard use pretty well.

Quote

Its not about round count its about age with plastics. I agree Glocks run up impressive round counts without (Ed.) failure.

Of course a handgun’s, ‘life expectancy’ is about total (useful) round count. In more than 50 years of using handguns, Glock's polymer frame pistols are the very first ones I’ve every owned that are able to go for 15 or 20,000 rounds without anything significant going wrong. Glocks are, also, the only pistols I’ve ever owned that I’m able to make repairs to, say, 98% of the time, right here, at my home workbench. (Try that with any other pistol manufacture!)

This said, I believe I’ve already more than adequately commented upon the durability characteristics of Glock’s polymer frames. (At least I don’t see anybody else around here who’s, so far, posted similarly detailed information; but, then again, perhaps I don’t fully understand the comment?)

Quote

There are reports of Glock frame failure on 1st gen. guns , the factory is replacing them but as yet has not issued a recall. Time will tell if this is a problem or not.

You know, I had to really think about this one! First generation Model 17’s? Yes. For awhile there was a problem with the frames showing stress cracks around those single (and very thin) combination trigger and lock block pins. Otherwise, Glock’s first generation polymer frames have been fine; and many of them are still in use. This occasional problem was corrected in all later Glock frames by the addition of separate lock block, and trigger pins.

It should be pointed out that these stress cracks around combination trigger/lock block pins were the result of a design flaw and not a failure of Glock’s polymer frames, themselves. To date, all of Glock’s 3 pin polymer frames have been, ‘rock solid’.

Quote

That is a good point but in some situations Glock rec (?)(Ed.) that heat in normal use.

The syntax on this remark leaves something to be desired; however, if I understand this statement correctly, it needs to be remembered that this temperature is NOT normally achieved while the frame is immersed in hot water - OK!

Quote

The mags that split were both exposed to sun light a lot. (Ed.) Your point and our experience shows a weakness or condition that must be addressed ( which is my point ) with regard to life expectancy. (Ed.)

Like the induced structural weakness(es) caused by those single trigger/lock block pins in early Glock’s frames, I really don’t think sunlight is the culprit, here. Instead I think these failed magazine bodies are the result of an improper use of un:reinforced plastic in the magazine bodies.

Quote

They say the same about piping which has not lived up to the testing, and like Glock the product is replaced but as of yet no recall. Until 100 years pass by the test well aren't real time test. I mean is there a picture (Ed.) of plastic like the Glock frame is made from a 100 years old to review?

Not that I’m aware of; however, Glock Talk’s, ‘MarkCO’ and, ‘GoGoGophers’ - whom I understand are both modern plastics engineers - have written some (I thought) well-informed articles on this subject. As already mentioned that report from the Museum of Modern Art is, so far, the most comprehensive report I have read on this topic. In a nutshell: ‘MarkCO’ and ‘GoGoGophers’ seem to think so; while the Metropolitan Museum does not.

These might help -

http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=Glock_FAQ_General_Glock_Info#polymer

Let%20me%20google%20that%20for%20you]Let me google that for you

ADDED, 02/15/12: Here! Just found this; anyone who's still curious should find it interesting:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/art/2009/07/does_plastic_art_last_forever.html

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #57 on:** February 03, 2012, 08:34:28 AM »

I work in the natural gas industry and we have been installing plastic gas mains since the mid-70's. Pipe has not deteriorated. We have found that what deteriorates plastic, and it may be true with polymers also, is UV rays from the sun. Not heat unless it is in the desert all day or something, not cold, UV rays. So keep your Glock out of the sun and it should be ok. When the gas main is buried, it is below the frost line and stays around 60 degrees year round 3' deep in the south, it may be 5' deep further north to maintain 60 degrees. If you leave your Glock in a car or truck, crack your windows slightly especially in the summer and keep it hidden. I never leave mine in a vehicle, allways with me, or in my safe.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #58 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:21:46 AM »

Quote from: Glock Doctor on February 03, 2012, 08:26:23 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL
Yes one was the other I'm not sure but it may have been lined. That said it was still a product they put on the market. I didn't see where it was limited to only certain products.

OK, I’m not arguing the point; but problems with Glock magazine bodies are very rare! In more than 10 years of doing this I’m only aware of mag body problems with the NML/NDF magazine bodies. With the possible exception of a few magazine lip problems, I’m not aware of anything else going wrong with Glock’s mag bodies - Exactly the opposite, in fact they seem to stand up to hard use pretty well.

Quote
Its not about round count its about age with plastics. I agree Glocks run up impressive round counts without (Ed.) failure.

Of course a handgun’s, ‘life expectancy’ is about total (useful) round count. In more than 50 years of using handguns, Glock's polymer frame pistols are the very first ones I’ve every owned that are able to go for 15 or 20,000 rounds without anything significant going wrong. Glocks are, also, the only pistols I’ve ever owned that I’m able to make repairs to, say, 98% of the time, right here, at my home workbench. (Try that with any other pistol manufacture!)I agree with the simple lock work added to the otherwise Browning design it is quite simple to work on . I guess round count is ok to judge a handgun if you negate the long term effects of the enviroment , When Glock has been used as long as you have been using handguns then we will have a "track record" that will tell us something other than what should happen.

This said, I believe I’ve already more than adequately commented upon the durability characteristics of Glock’s polymer frames. (At least I don’t see anybody else around here who’s, so far, posted similarly detailed information; but, then again, perhaps I don’t fully understand the comment?) I like to buy police trade in guns, we have several dealers here that trade in them. The guns are well worn but well maintained ( yes some of the mags that failed were trade in's) so I think I have seen several well used Glocks, one gen gun was almost smooth where the plastic had been worn down and where the top of a glock bbl shows wear it was worn to the point there was metal worn down. The gun functioned flawless but not so accurate as when new . I had a mod 23 factory reconditioned gun that would not feed . It was sent to the factory and came back with new slide and internals , it then was 100% . I have heard of some gen 1 guns having frame problems so again we will see after some time goes by.

As for plastic gas pipe ( poly ) I have installed it since the 70's , been certified to install several brands of gas and othe types. All are to be stored out of direct sunlight. I have seen some waste pcs that were in scrape piles become brittle like most plastic does over time.

I have no problem with a plastic pistol or revolver for that matter. My point is they one at a reduced cost to a quality metal gun. I see why military and police would opt for such as it would be more cost effective to replace a less expensive gun with a new more up to date one than rebuild over and over on a gun with less useful options. Its just important to note the pros and cons , who cares if the life of the frame is 40 years if it will be traded in 20 ?

Quote
There are reports of Glock frame failure on 1st gen. guns , the factory is replacing them but as yet has not issued a recall. Time will tell if this is a problem or not.

You know, I had to really think about this one! First generation Model 17’s? Yes. For awhile there was a problem with the frames showing stress cracks around those single (and very thin) combination trigger and lock block pins. Otherwise, Glock’s first generation polymer frames have been fine; and many of them are still in use. This occasional problem was corrected in all later Glock frames by the addition of separate lock block, and trigger pins.

It should be pointed out that these stress cracks around combination trigger/lock block pins were the result of a design flaw and not a failure of Glock’s polymer frames, themselves. To date, all of Glock’s 3 pin polymer frames have been, ‘rock solid’.

Quote
That is a good point but in some situations Glock rec (?)(Ed.) that heat in normal use.

The syntax on this remark leaves something to be desired; however, if I understand this statement correctly, it needs to be remembered that this temperature is NOT normally achieved while the frame is immersed in hot water - OK!

Quote
The mags that split were both exposed to sun light a lot. (Ed.) Your point and our experience shows a weakness or condition that must be addressed ( which is my point ) with regard to life expectancy. (Ed.)

Like the induced structural weakness(es) caused by those single trigger/lock block pins in early Glock’s frames, I really don’t think sunlight is the culprit, here. Instead I think these failed magazine bodies are the result of an improper use of un:reinforced plastic in the magazine bodies.

Quote
They say the same about piping which has not lived up to the testing, and like Glock the product is replaced but as of yet no recall. Until 100 years pass by the test well aren't real time test. I mean is there a picture (Ed.) of plastic like the Glock frame is made from a 100 years old to review?

Not that I’m aware of; however, Glock Talk’s, ‘MarkCO’ and, ‘GoGoGophers’ - whom I understand are both modern plastics engineers - have written some (I thought) well-informed articles on this subject. As already mentioned that report from the Museum of Modern Art is, so far, the most comprehensive report I have read on this topic. In a nutshell: ‘MarkCO’ and ‘GoGoGophers’ seem to think so; while the Metropolitan Museum does not.

Here, these might help -

http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=Glock_FAQ_General_Glock_Info#polymer

Let me google that for you

Glock Doctor · « **Reply #59 on:** February 06, 2012, 05:38:47 AM »

A few words about police trade-in Glock pistols:

Over the years that I've worked with, and studied, Gaston Glock's, 'wunder pistolen' I've noticed a couple of (peculiar) things:

(1) Many of the larger law enforcement agencies tend to trade-in their service Glocks at between 7 and 12 years. If I've seen this once, I've seen it a dozen times.

(2) Same thing with pistol round counts. All of the agencies that count their rounds (Probably, by keeping track of ammunition purchases.) tend to trade-in their Glock pistols at, and in between, 40,000 to 50,000 fired rounds.

The question that come to mind is, 'Why'? Based on my own experiences with Glock pistols I have formed the following opinions:

(1) Over time, Glock's polymer frames DO show more wear than do metal frame pistols. It's just that this wear tends to show itself as a lot of small nicks and, 'rub marks' - Nothing that's really substantial or might actually stop the pistol, though.

(2) It's, now, known and widely agreed that polymer frame pistols do vibrate violently whenever the pistol is fired. I believe, and it is my opinion, that the long term effect of these vibrations is to weaken polymer frames - I further suspect that some parts of a polymer frame are weakened more severely than others.

(3) Those large government agencies that tend to regularly trade-in their Glock pistols do not suffer from the phenomenon of reading too much Glock Talk.

Instead, they have their own better informed and more reliable sources of information. I'll, also, bet that these agencies have more experience with, 'field failures' of polymer frame pistols and, consequently, have a pretty good idea of both, 'Why' these failures tend to increase over time as well as, 'When' to trade-in their old polymer frames for new.

While I'll admit my criteria is arbitrary, at the same time, I personally wouldn't want to rely upon any Glock pistol that's fired more than 80,000 to 100,000 rounds for my own self-defense. It's NOT a matter of Glock polymer frames not being able to be used beyond 100,000 rounds; instead it's a matter of a constantly increasing probability for something to go wrong.

Is 100,000 rounds a lot of shooting? For many, if not most, pistol shooters 100,000 rounds would equal more than 2 lifetimes worth of pistol shooting. For anyone who shoots frequently, however, 12 to 15,000 rounds a year is entirely feasible - entirely feasible! So, the Reader can do the math! Notice, though, that the respective quotients correlate nicely with the usual polymer pistol trade-in times of many government agencies.

Consequently, 'how long' a polymer frame pistol will last without experiencing noticeable polymer deterioration is NOT the same thing as either accumulated round count or actual field usage. In my opinion (and this is, only, my opinion) while Glock's 'D6/Nylon 6' polymer frames might, indeed, last for 100 years without showing any of the visible structural degradation common to a wide variety of modern plastics, at the same time, I (personally) do not believe that any of these polymer frame pistols are going to maintain enough structural integrity to be reliable EDC or self-defense weapons much beyond 100,000 expended rounds.

Remember: I'm not saying that Glock polymer frames cannot shoot past the 100,000 round mark; I'm saying that the probability for something to go wrong significantly increases - Especially when hot (self-defense) ammo and pistol accessories (like tac lights) are also regularly used.

It's tests like these that I would like to see THE GLOCK FACTORY run. However, I think the probability for Glock, GmbH to actually perform meaningful tests like this - rather than all of the cheap advertising stunts Glock representatives have been known to pull - is very unlikely to occur.

In fact it amuses me, no end, to read about that Helicopter drop stunt one of the Glock reps pulled - What, 'techno-crap'! At the present time, at least, two government agencies have, 'put the lie' to this popular myth - It's just that the general shooting public (and Kool-Aid drinkers everywhere) has yet to figure things out.

So, OK! Now that we're comparing, 'apples for apples' I find that I really do have to agree with much, but not all, of the objections that have been raised. Are Glock pistols good serviceable guns with a generally prolonged service life? The best answer I'm able to offer is, 'Yes, they can be; and many Glock pistols - but NOT all - have been exactly that.'

Should a pistolero run his Glock past the 100,000 round point? This can, certainly, be done; BUT, for serious self-defense use? ....... Let's just say that I don't see the United States Marine Corps warehousing Glock pistols for 40 or 50 years in the same way that The Corps did with steel framed 1911-A1's. Right now, the best that can be said is, ‘A 40 or 50 year old steel frame pistol is definitely going to work and work well when it's taken out of prolonged storage while a polymer frame pistol might, or might not.

(One more thing: All of this, kind 'a, points out the uninformed stupidity of people who, 'get their jollies' cleaning their Glock pistols inside of a dishwasher - Right!)