Author Topic: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????  (Read 3361 times)

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Offline Axehandle

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2009, 08:09:20 AM »
You know we are just here to help!   ;D    You said that MASS won't let the FA 83 in....  How about the FA 97? 
My little 4.25 inch 41 mag sure makes a compact little handful...

Offline blhof

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2009, 09:42:16 AM »
The 454 with the short barrel is a handfull even ported, with a lot of muzzle blast, but with the 45 colts it purrs like a loud kitten and is fun to shoot.

Offline drdougrx

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2009, 03:25:49 PM »
Nope...no FA unless it was purchased prior to October 1998 and has documentation to prove it.  Ax...I'm drooling....

Blhof...I'm rapidly sliding over to the heavyily loaded 45LC camp at this point!  Tomorrow I'll see what my good friend Dave has by way of a ruger SA frame..I suspect it's an SBH, hope it's a BH......we'll see.
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Offline Axehandle

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2009, 05:04:34 PM »
Dang man!  I hate it for you and the FAs.....   Guess we better get back to Rugers....   The one below looks like my 500L by John Gallagher I showed off earlier but it is in fact a 5.5 inch 44 mag...  It would have been a 45 Colt if there had been any 45 barrels left at the time....


Offline Axehandle

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2009, 05:09:42 PM »
And....  Just so you guys don't think that I have only Gallagher stuff the little jewel below is a 5 shot 45 Colt Bisley Ruger by David Clements...  When it moved into my house it was already wearing the African Elephant Ivory grips....

Offline drdougrx

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2009, 02:52:54 AM »
Jeez Axe....I gotta lotta catch'n up to do!
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Offline mk454

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2009, 06:56:49 PM »
well, i just did some testing on my 454's and i have some interesting chrony numbers.  i use W296 and the difference b/w my 7.5" and 10" is pretty marked, at least with that powder and those two individual guns.  using federal 250gr barnes x bullet loads, their data says 1530fps out of a 7.5" gun.  not sure if that's with a ruger with a larger cylinder gap or if the rounds were hotter but my 7.5" was averaging about 1610 fps and my 10" was 1770fps.  with my own loads worked up very very carefully and slowly which i won't post what i use for it b/c it very very well may not be safe in other guns runs hornady xtps 300 grains at 1940 fps out of the 10" and 1760 fps average out of the 7.5".  out of my buds 6" he bought from me the loads ran right at about 1650fps.  with the shorter barrel the muzzle flip was most impressive and despite how you'd hold the gun it was still pegging him at the top of the forehead about 50% of the time.  the 10" was much much more tolerable.  predictably the 7.5" was right in the middle.  i find the 7.5" the best all around in that caliber but the 10" is great with the millett sights for strictly hunting.  6" and down for packing woods backup, but if i wanted shorter than 6" i'd go with a 475 or a 45 colt. 

btw, those rounds did not show any signs of pressure or primer flattening.  still easy extraction and i've had some earlier corbon factory loads blow primers out the back of the case and so i know they were higher pressure but they were old factory 240 grains and listed velocity was 2090 fps out of a 7.5" gun. 

these rounds have the most impressive results on deer i've seen.  the xtps on axis deer hold together, have not had a failure or jacket seperation and expand to over an inch.  wound channels are much beyond what i've ever got with flatpoint cast bullets out of any of my other pistols so while in the minority, i do choose jacketed bullets for elk and below, though with elk i use the barnes.  have not had a failure.  i had a friend have his 480 ruger cast bullets fail on a bison's shoulder.  it appeared two of the larger fragments penetrated into the vitals but on autopsy it was hard to tell if the first shot was enough to finish it but the second passed through.  i've had great results with beartooth bullets out of the .475 and i've found them a little tougher than the cast bullet perfomance hardcasts.  anyway, i did mispeak earlier and the .475 i sold was a 5.5" gun and i should have a 4.75" gun in the spring.  hope this in anyway helps.
a gun owner that votes dem is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.

Offline MePlat

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2009, 04:28:33 AM »
I will say this.  I have 2 FA 454  43/4 and a 71/2 inch and did have a 10 incher but traded it and still have a 12 inch Encore.
Even with FA ammo loaded back when they were the only ones and they were loaded right on up my 71/2 incher only ran 1625 average with the 43/3 inch gun around 1530.  The 10 incher was faster than the 71/2 incher but no more than 90 fps.
The Hornady FL with the 300 gr XTP-Mag ran 1810 from the 12 inch Encore.
Randy Smith told me at the time tha FA used Cannister grade H110.  Not commercial grade.
If you are getting actual chronoed  velocities that high I would rethink things.
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Offline mk454

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2009, 01:04:29 PM »
 8)
a gun owner that votes dem is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.

Offline mk454

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2009, 02:55:55 PM »
FA factory loads at 1625fps are not close to max loads on their published data.  max loads run 1780 fps from a 7.5" gun.  btw, old triplex loads are fun.  FA own H110 published data would show a max of 1870 with 300gr in a 10" data if you only gained 90 fps froma  10" gun.  not far off my numbers which are chrony verified for an avg of at least 10 shots.
a gun owner that votes dem is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.

Offline MePlat

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2009, 03:09:03 PM »
I don't know what loading data you are referring to but if it is on FA's sight one of us is smoking something off the wall or on oc's

FA300JFP  H110  28.5  1589  44,400  31.5  1780  55,000
+FA300JFP  H110  31.0  1625
This is from FA's site.  You will see the 1780 figure is from a 71/'2 inch test barrel with the 31 gr load fired in a production 71/2 inch revolver.
I don't see the 1780 you are talking about in the revolver.
Show me where it is.
Be sure to READ all that is said about the data then get back to me.
I am curious where I messed up on what I said.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2009, 12:03:00 AM »
guess i have to ask what your gaining pushing them that fast anyway. I cant see a lick of advantage between pushing a 300 to 1700 over pushing it to 1500 other then a marked increase in muzzle blast, recoil and gun wear. Just about any bullet ive shot out of the 454 preformed better at a bit more sedate velocity anyway. I have to agree with metplat. If you think your going to a longer barrrel to get that 200 fps is actually making your gun more effective in the field then id like it explained to me how? Me ill take the 1500 out of a gun that sits comfortably in a hip holster thats handy when i need it. If i have to haul a 7.5 inch revolver around let alone a 10 inch one id just as soon take a short handy lever gun. There isnt much differnce in weight and if you have to sling a sixgun a lever gun is just as fast and handy and easier to shoot well.
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Offline mk454

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2009, 03:30:34 PM »
well.....................to answer the question.  first, i posted those loads to give an idea of velocity and recoil diffs per MY experiences and chrony'd data.  the second, is b/c i just really wanted to see how many posts there would be before someone would post the points you made.  it happens ad nauseum.  lots of opinions and observations.  i strictly experiment in animals and could care less about wet newsprint that has no standard or anything scientific about it.  that said, i have gone to expandable bullets on everything except easy loads for the kids to shoot deer and for me on the largest game.  with reliable bullets that i have come to use and the failures i have seen or should i say lack of perfection from hardcasts on large buff i love to experiment.  back when i was a fighter there was one way to train, one way to eat and to question it was heresy.  20 years later the standard in that game has changed.  well there's alot of dogmatism in handgunning around here and other sights.  you disagree and you're branded an idiot and the like.  i like more velocity at times and i like to experiment to see how much velocity does affect things. especially on medium size game.  expandables on deer and elk have given me phenomenal results.  i don't much care who agrees and who doesn't but so far i've had a couple friends that were hardcast afficianados rethink what loads they want to use and if were to hunt anything bigger than a buff i would use punch bullets.  and in those, more velocity affords more penetration.  in expandables it opens them up further and affords more penetration. 

me and the kids shoot 5 axis a year and two buff a year for the "meat pot".  they're more of a meat shoot than hunt but it affords good comparisons and lots of animals to compare to.  i have several uncle's and cousins that farm in the north texas panhandle and have big hog issues.  we get to shoot as many as we want and donate what meat we don't need to the hunter's for the homeless program.  that doesn't count whitetail season and any extraneous elk hunting.  i have two close buds that participate in these hunts and handgun hunt.  we have plenty of comparisons on calibers from .44 to .500 smith.  gotten to know what works well from my experience on buff and elk, and on deer and i couldn't have disagreed more than the dogmatism i see on the issue of handgun hunting.

the correct statement is that.............................all the variables you listed lloyd are correct............that is if you mean shooting hardcasts into newsprint.  and yes they'll kill animals and big ones.
a gun owner that votes dem is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.

Offline mk454

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2009, 03:31:30 PM »
and.............meplat.  you indeed are correct.  i stand corrected.
a gun owner that votes dem is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.

Offline mk454

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Re: 454 Casull and barrel length....recommendations????
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2009, 03:33:51 PM »
the real advantage in a 10" is sight radius, the velocity doesn't hurt.  7.5" is by no means to much. 
a gun owner that votes dem is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.