Hunting in South Africa - Cheaper??

[Bushwack_007]

The economy seems to be every one’s problem around the world now a day. South Africa is offering good and affordable hunting packages. Plains and Dangerous game hunts have come down; packages for 5, 7 and even 10 days plains game lead the best offers with hunts starting UNDER the US2500.

If you ever considered hunting in South Africa, now would be an excellent time finding your hunt that suits your budget and GO…

[Cabin4]

I do think there are great deals out there than ever before. Outfitters are having to really get creative to attract clients. I know a couple of outfitters in Idaho and Montana that are on the verge of going out of business if things don't turn around. Some that I don't know but know of have already gone over the edge. Its a bad situtation out there and booking a hunting trip is a luxury that many folks simply cannot afford or don't want to risk spending the money on in case they loose their job later. I personally passed on a trip this fall but did already book a trip for fall of 2010 (not in Africa). It was a great deal and just could not pass up the offer.

[Grumulkin]

Unless providence smiles on me, I'm not taking a hunting trip this year but plan on one next year and the year thereafter.  I don't know where yet; maybe Canada, Australia or Namibia.

The fact is, it's probably just as cheap to fly to Africa and hunt a number of animals over a couple of weeks as it is to spend 5 days hunting in Texas or Alaska.

[GRIMJIM]

Under 2500? That's a good deal. Does that include trophy fees? Any other costs?

Even still after you add planefare and taxidermy it's more than a lot of people are willing/able to spend right now.

I wish I could go. My wife asked me what I wanted for our 20th anniversary next year. I said I wanted to go to Africa.

I just don't know with work being spotty if I can afford to go.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  We made some excellent trips to S. Africa in the mid 90's things were very reasonable, there was some game we did not take eland, springbuck, bushbuck, and maybe another or two. Often the really cheap deals only offer a couple larger antelope and the rest very tiny ones. Now prices have gone up a good deal since then, and the flights are expensive. The biggest downer for me is the very long flight. If I came into lots of $, I would return, but right now, a nice moose and big bear are tops on my list.

[GRIMJIM]

Honestly, the only things I would like to take would be a nice grand kudu, doesn't have to be record book but nice, and a couple of big warthogs. Maybe a waterbuffalo but that's about it.

I've always wanted to go on a horseback moose hunt. Sorry I'm daydreaming again. Don't want to go off topic.

[Graybeard]

Maybe a waterbuffalo but that's about it.

That's not Africa, they have cape buffalo not water buffalo. So to do that you'll need to make a different trip. IF you meant Cape Buff you better have deep pockets.

[Grumulkin]

Under 2500? That's a good deal. Does that include trophy fees? Any other costs?

I found out about one RSA hunt recently for $200/day with bunches of impala and blesbok included in the price and even a few eland.  That price is for a cull hunt; if you hunted trophy animals you would pay the going trophy fees.  Air fare, of course, isn't included and the flight from the East Coast is a bit long (about 16 hours).  I would go but it's only for this year and I can't take off work with such short notice.

[GRIMJIM]

Maybe a waterbuffalo but that's about it.

That's not Africa, they have cape buffalo not water buffalo. So to do that you'll need to make a different trip. IF you meant Cape Buff you better have deep pockets.

That's what I meant, and I do not have very deep pockets. Especially right now.

[Graybeard]

I've long operated under the assumption a cape buff could be had for around $5000 or so but in a conversation with Jim last year I think it was he told me he doubted I'd see a hunt for much less than double that as I recall the discussion at least.

I think some of the outfits that advertise those cheap hunts in the backs of magazines aren't exactly on the up and up and what they promise and what they deliver might be a very different matter.

[quickdtoo]

A friend and retired co-worker runs Iron Mountain Adventures, he charges $13000 for a Cape Buffalo trophy fee, plus $550-$650 for the DG fee, it aint' cheap, he's offered to take me along on one of his hunts just for the cost of getting there, but I just don't have the desire to spend that much money for a trophy on the wall that my wife wouldn't care for, she complains enough about the elk antlers I have already, different strokes I guess. 

Tim

http://www.ironmountainadventures.com/about_us.htm

[Grumulkin]

I've long operated under the assumption a cape buff could be had for around $5000 or so but in a conversation with Jim last year I think it was he told me he doubted I'd see a hunt for much less than double that as I recall the discussion at least.

I think some of the outfits that advertise those cheap hunts in the backs of magazines aren't exactly on the up and up and what they promise and what they deliver might be a very different matter.

Definitely don't go for cheap hunts offered in the backs of magazines.  You have to know the market and how to shop and then you'll find some quality hunts at quite reasonable prices.  A membership in Safari Club International and attendance at their auctions is a good place to start.

[WL44]

I've recently seen 7 day deals in Zim and Zambia for trophy buff of between $7k and $10k. Graybeard is correct, at least until about the start of this year when some "better" deals popped up.

I didn't vote as I found the poll confusing. I think rates for DG and plains game are quite good currently. In the big game areas trophy prices are largely determined by the governements, so $2500 for a buff before day rates is probably not negotiable. I'm not sure whether that could change for the next season and I don't know when these things are renewed, or negotiated etc. The day rates are, but guys need to run a camp and pay staff. I think much below the bottom of the range mentioned is getting below a level where guys can do business, so I doubt prices could drop much, short of prepaid and unsold trophy quotas.

I'd guess it's not improbable that if we see a weaker US$ this could mean a fairly sticky, or higher US$ price.

The South African situation differs in that most of the game is "privately owned". We host the 2010 Soccer World Cup next year and there was lots of talk about price hikes due to increased tourist interest from those coming over to see the soccer. I'm not sure that a bunch of soccer fans will be doing hunting though. What SA prices do remains to be seen.

Maybe JJ will chime in.

[JJHACK]

People need to be very carful about what they read and how they understand what many of these hunts are about. Hunts can be had for very cheap, however you will not likely ever see airfare more expensive then next June and July. Even if you can find a seat it will be 2-3 times the cost it was last year. The world cup is killing the hunting seasons with complicated air travel and insane price levels.

Next issue is the location. You must understand that all of Africa does not include all of the game. There are habitats and locations that animals live natural and wild as God intended, and other areas where man has relocated animals to be shot or "hunted" as they claim. Some of these areas have 30 plus big game species and of those maybe a 1/2 dozen or more are not even from South Africa, some not even from Africa period! There are no deer in Africa, no Tahr, no Aoudad, etc. These properties have both species of Wildebeest and neither is natural!

If you hunt one of these places, save your money and hunt them in Texas, flights are easy, no passport, customs, dip pack, everyone speaks english, it's a no brainer to just stay in Texas and hunt them. They are not natural in Texas either so why travel to Africa to hunt game that is not natural in the area you would be hunting anyway! These animals are farmed and stocked with a Put and take operation, these are not natural wild animals.

Get a wildlife book and look at the shaded areas you see for each species you desire. You will see a trend with the game and where the majority of them live natural. However you will also see the list of animals on the outfitters trophy fee list and few if any may be living natural on his property. Either the outfitter will drive for days to hunt wild game where they live, or you will be put in front of stocked trophies on a high fence game farm.

There are provinces in RSA that do not allow this kind of operation. Then there are provinces where the laws are far more lax and they will allow almost any kind of hunting and stocking. Some of these farms have blue and black wildebeest which have never lived in the same habitat. Yet they will cross breed into some mutant wildebeest, same with Blesbok and Bontebok, and red hartebeest, all will cross breed in captivity, but never live in the same places natural. Greater Kudu will breed with Cape Kudu, so what are you shooting when you hunt these places?

For the man who wants to shoot and kill lots of game, these cheap places are a great idea.  For the sportsman who wants to experience a true hunt for natural wild game, it would be a good idea to dig further into this and choose wisely. I cannot tell you how many people have hunted with me on a second trip and seen the huge difference in habitat and animals up north. They ALL seemed quite embarrased about the first hunt on the stocked farm when they realized just how different it was to hunt natural wild game. They simply assumed it was natural and wild because it was in Africa. After all Dall Sheep moose and caribou all live in America, but not in Florida!

Be warned, not all hunting in South Africa is for natural wild game, many species are farmed and stocked for "shooting" and these usually tend to be the dirt cheap operations.

[Grumulkin]

For the first visitor to Africa, the Impala, Springbok, Blesbok and Zebra seem so unique and valuable.  What many don't know is that they breed pretty much like rabbits (I know, a little exaggeration) and each year hundreds, yea thousands, are culled and sold for their meat.

I think South Africa is fine for the first trip or two and fine for a cull hunt but, as JJ said, a lot of the animals are stocked on game farms.  That doesn't mean it isn't fun though.  Also, there are various sizes of operations.  The biggest piece of ground I hunted in South Africa was about 85,000 acres and, from what I understand, that's exceptional since most hunting areas are smaller.

I'm planning on another African hunt in 2011 but probably in Namibia and hopefully something entirely free range (a half million to a million acres would be nice).

[JJHACK]

Namibia's farms may not be fenced and may be on millions of acres. However with the minimal water all the game is within a short distance of the water. So even without a fence, they are kept somewhat within the reach of the thin bush and the water supply. Lets face it many of the islands of Alaska are less then a million acres and I have never head anyone complain that it was not fair chase.

Just pay attention to the natural habitat if you want a "real hunt". Other wise why go all that way to shoot farmed game?

[WL44]

JJ introduces very valid "issues" surrounding hunting in SA. There was a good discussion about this some time ago too if you check in the history.

I have hunted areas which carried introduced species. It was tough hunting, but these animals were not put and take (i.e. they had bred on the property, but obviously were intially introduced with new genes introduced from time to time, but you get the idea). Certainly they hadn't been "delivered" only days before, leaving them confused and uncertain as to topography, position of fences etc. To me that is certainly not a "hunt" and I want no part of it.

That said, I still prefer to and really endeavour to, take animals where they naturally occur. The photographs are in the right setting and you then truly had the experience related to the species that you hunted. You will have experienced the use of their instincts and selection process through hundreds of years of survival and see that applied in the natural habitat; including vegetation, topography (hills / dunes etc), winds and so forth. I realise that this is not always practical for a US hunter who would need to travel to various areas quite far apart to achieve this. You pay your money and make your choices. This has been the success of one of the areas in SA where not that many species occur naturally (and that I'd guess JJ was hinting at); they've stocked the area to the brim with virtually everything and it is possibly one of the most popular destinations, but I haven't hunted there much (mainly for that reason).

There are very large areas in SA which do not give you the "high fence" type feel. As an example one property that I hunt is in excess of 60 000 acres, I'd guess the camps are about 40k and 20k respectively. I've also hunted areas as small as around 5000 acres, which were tough to hunt because of the dense bush and topography. Even here I never felt that it was a "canned" type hunt. That said I prefer larger areas, but economics determines the size of proeprties in certain areas to a large extent. Bear in mind also that hunting from vehicles is legal and commonplace in certain parts of Southern Africa. Whilst my health permits I'm not interested in that either. This is not some kind of attempt to tell you all how wonderful some of us are, but to present the choices and stuations that you might encounter when hunting here and that you may want to decide about upfront. Know how, what and where you'd like to hunt and what type of trohpy quality you expect and then set about making your enquiries.

Another point to bear in mind is trophy quality in the area that you hunt. I've hunted more cheaply in areas where quality was maybe not as good as elsewhere and where animals were less plentiful. It was a tough hunt and I was not unhappy, but  you could make better choices as to area and it would have cost a bit more. This can be very relevant for DG hunting from what I've seen.

You just really need to ask a lot of questions if these points are important to you and know what you letting yourself in for.

This is the view of an SA sport hunter; just to put it in perspective.

[efremtags]

I understand the sentiment of wanting a fair chase hunt, but bear in mind if you only enjoy hunting local species, that means Pheasant and wild boar in the US would not be on the agenda (both are non-native species). If you wait a few hundred years, they will be native too.

New Zealand built a tremendous industry out of wild hunts with non-native species. If you have wild habitat, the animals will behave wildly.

[JJHACK]

Agreed that there are exceptions to the way people think about these things. However to travel all the way to South Africa you may as well hunt in the north of the country for all the natural species then hunt the south for the same animals that have been farm raised and released for your "shooting" pleasure.

I have about 40 head of Corsican sheep on my farm. They are wild and you will not get close to them. I shoot them with my bow when I want to eat one, or sell one. Its an entertaining experience and a challenge, however I don't mistake it for hunting. And I sure as heck would not fly 1/2 way around the world to shoot that kind of game.

If comes down to what the hunter is expecting. So long as the outfitter is honest and the hunters know this, I'm good with it. The problem is that the great majority of outfitters do not tell the hunters this little tid bit of fact. It's been going on for so long now that PH's under 30 don't even know that this is going on. They have seen these animals theirt whole lives and will argue that they are all natural. It's been farmed for game for 50 years now and so many imported species exist that even some residents are confused about what is real and natural  there.

[elmer]

Jim,

I think you hit on two of the important things for me.

1. Why fly 1/2 way round the world to hunt non-native game, particularly when just north of there you have another option. When we are talking non-native game it isn't like hunting Tar in New Zealand where they were release generations ago and adapted to environment.

2. Is the outfitter being honest about the situation. Based on some of the ads I have seen for el cheapo hunts I would have to vote no.

[Bushwack_007]

Gentlemen,

Not all Outfitters that offers cheap hunts, are Outfitters that is un-realiable, unethical or untrustworthy. Keep in mind that a quota of species have to taken off in a hunting season; if not, farmers will file for bankruptcy because they have to hand feed those animals now. For proper game management you have to 'cull' or offer cheaper hunts to stay in business...

[JJHACK]

In 17 years as a PH and outfitter in the EC, Natal, and the NP I have never once heard of a discount hunt for superb trophies to be "culled"

Again if the outfitter is honest with the offer, as in a discount hunt for culling non trophy animals, (see my website for this exact culling offer in 2010) or if they tell the prospective hunter that they are coming to hunt game that is not natural and has been raised on high fence farm properties then all this is great!

My hunters and many of the people I speak to at sporting shows after they have come back, have been disgusted that they were hunting on a property that had more then half the species stocked for shooting because they were not indigenous. They were never told this before they booked the trip.

All Foreign hunters ask is 100% honesty, they can make a good educated decision with proper truthful and fair information.

[Bushwack_007]

JJHACK,

Do you run you own farm in S.A?. What happens to the 'trophy' animals that you don't take off in the season? Do you know that some 'trophy' animals wouldn't make it to the next season? Did you know that not all regions in South Africa had the same rainfall as in EC and KZN. Another option is to do some game capturing, but that is expensive - especially if you only have to capture one or two species - Do you know how much a chopper cost to be in flight - quite expensive.

My grandpa always said to me - "try to cut your losses, son" and that is what i do - try to get something for a 'trophy' animal than nothing at all...

"Not all Outfitters offers cheap hunts with an intension to be dishonest, there is more to it than the naked eye only - I call it GAME MANAGEMENT..."

On the indigenous specie issue, i do agree; firstly it's against the law and secondly it's against nature (Never put Blue & Black Wildebeest together, and never with species like Blesbuck and Bontebok / Red Hartebeest.)

In my 17 years as qualified tour operator and on a very young age hunted as dedicated hunter and 7 years as PH and Outfitter, i did see farmers give away animals...for FREE...and that for SURVIVAL...

All in good hunting,