was i a victim off profiling??

[45-70.gov]

we  were loading the boat back on the trailer at a public ramp

when  a deputy  noticed  my  soms 38  inside a clear plastic container

it  was ''securly incased and not readily accesable'' 
acording to florida law no  carry permit is requiered

one  of the deputies  ask if he  had a permit for that 
and  to remove it from the container  and give it to  him
my son gave it to him  along with his carry permit

at  that point  i told  the other officer
''i  supose  i am requiered by law to notify  you i am  armed  too''
and  handed him my permit
he  ask  where my gun  was  and he  needed  to take  it
''my left front  i can  get  it''
he  said  no  let me get  it
a  stranger reached  into my pocket  and took my gun

I WAS  BEING TREATED AS A CRIMINAL!!

what  is  the ''probable cause''  a crime was  commited?

they  ran the seial numbers  on  my sons gun
i  said  i can tell  yiou where  he got it.......i  sold it to him
''where did  you get  it''......texas
and  gave  them  each  a business  card  stating  i had  an  FFL
told  them  i had  2  more for  sale  at  $450

 finally  lightened up....said  their back  up guns  are what  my son was carrying
gave  us  our guns back  and thanked  us for  our co-operation
i  hid my  out rage  and  my     have found a new customer
and  explained to my son  that  they  noticed the guns  not the fact we had no trailer lights

also  i had a gun  like it stolen....if they don't run numbers  how will they find the stolen ones

but  was  i profiled  just  because  we chose  to be  armed?
what  did  i do  even  if my son was in the wrong?
all  is well  that  ends  well
and  i feel  i will  be on good  terms  should  i encounter  these  guys again
this  is a very  nice ramp/park  in  a bad  neighbor hood too

other deputies  have  told my they are told to be especially vigilent in this park

[williamlayton]

I suspose that you could consider it being profiled. I think of profiling as based on appearance and other such random suspence's.
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, I guess.
If they see it and don't check it out they could be critized for not doing their job.
If    "     "   "   "    do check it out they may be considered too be harassing.
The thing I think about is----they don't know me. They have NO idea what or who they are dealing with. If they don't take all precautions it is their life they are putting at risk.
If I was in their position I would take the sight of any weapon to be a serious concern to be handled in a most judicious method---for all's sake.
I think the results of this episode was good and it did not appear that they over reacted or caused a scene.
I think you also handeled it very well and did the proper things.
Just within the last week a police officer was shot and killed when he went too the scene of family disturbance, here in Houston, and he did not react too the situation properly--for his own safety.
Blessings   

[yooper77]

Profiling, nope not at all!

The officer was doing his job trying to verify you were legal.  People need to comply with whatever a police officer demands every time.  Like it or not, but they have this authority over you.  Actually if fail to comply with their demands, you are breaking the law by not following orders and should be and can be arrested.

yooper77

[Cabin4]

If I'm not mistaken, FL is a concealed carry state only. When I lived in PA my concealed carry permit allowed me to carry in FL & KY because those 3 states share reciprocity with each other. So the fact that the gun was not concealed, seems reasonable for the cops to ask questions about it. In your case, I don't think under FL law that you are required to notify them you are carrying. In PA, you are not required to notify the cops, say if you are pulled over in a traffic stop. I was pulled over in PA for passing over a double yellow line (I started my pass prior but ran out of room). A cop checking radar saw me do this and pulled me over. I thought about telling him about my Kimber Ultra Carry under by coat, but decided not too (I’m not required by law to do so). He let me go with a warning after I explained that I started my pass during the dash-line.

I think you disclosed something you were not required to disclose and usually cops like that behavior. Your nicer than me, I would not have said dittly-doo. If asked, I would have offered.

[Cabin4]

Profiling, nope not at all!

The officer was doing his job trying to verify you were legal.  People need to comply with whatever a police officer demands every time.  Like it or not, but they have this authority over you.  Actually if fail to comply with their demands, you are breaking the law by not following orders and should be and can be arrested.

yooper77

I agree in this case the officer was asking what he his legally capable of asking. The gun was not concealed in a state that only has a concealed required law. But to say you have to comply with "whatever" a cop demands is not true. They do not have any absolute or unlimited legal authority over you.

[rockbilly]

He may of had issues with your son, but when you produced your identification and concealed permit the conversation with you should have ended.  Were these young cops?  Sometimes the youngsaters like to show their authority just prove they can.

Incidents such as this remind me of the Mexican copos.  They don't know the law, are (for the most part) uneducated, have a gun strapped on their hip and do thing because they can.

[45-70.gov]

not  young  but  not  old gurs either

cop sees  you drive a car....does  he auto maticly ask for you lisence??

one cop  said  he hadn't seen a motor like that  since he was in louisiana for katrina
many  of those  folks still  haven't  gotten back  confiscated  guns

there  are  only   laws  about displaying  a gun in a threatening maner
in  a clear plastic container  going from canoe to jeep?
i  could tell  these  guys  were  a  little nervous and  that made me nervous
thats  why  i gave them a card and tried to sell them a gun
they  did  lighten up then and  laughed at my  card
''by appointment only
walkins will be shot''

other than  taking  our  guns  they seemed  like  really nice  guys

i was  stopped  a few months  ago driving
as  i showed my driver lisence  he saw  my gun permit
ask  if i was carrying now....yes
did  you know  you are to tell  me that  as soon as i stop  you??
no  they told  me  don't lie if ask  but don't  offer  that  info.....but  you know how they change  things
he  agreed
what  do  you carry.  he ask.....357 i told him
mmmmm   good  round  he  said
never  ask for  it......
i   explained  i was  swerving  trying to roll down the passenger  window
he  called in  my tag.....said  it wasn't in the system.
told  me to check  it  out  when  i get  back to my county

end  of story......i  didn't feel  like a criminal

i  just  hope  they don't  intimidate  folks  into  not carrying
we  will  make a better  effort  to be CONCEALED

 i was shooting a 9 inch 12 ga  at the police range once
a deputy  told  me  not to get caught with that
once  shot my sub 9mm  full auto at  police range...no one checked my  ID
they  even  invided  me back  and  gave  me bullets  to shoot my gun

[Land_Owner]

Exceprts from Florida Statutes Chapter 790...

760.06  License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.--
The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. emphasis added.

760.053  Open carrying of weapons.--
(1)  Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm...  emphasis added

760.25  Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--
(3)  LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes: emphasis added

(h)  A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition; emphasis added

(j)  A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

 (l)  A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession; emphasis added

===============================

There is "Statute Law" and there is "Street Law".  The officer(s) were acting on the visual evidence - in their capacity as LEO's, in (as you said) "a bad neighborhood".  Your son was not profiled.  Then you volunteered for the INQUISITION.  They just followed their job patterning after that.

There is nothing that I can find in the State Statute that dictates a concealed weapon must be declared.  I preceive it as a courtesy to the LEO's so they don't later "discover" you are carrying and get their undies in a bunch.

If I am incorrect in this, please advise. 

LEO's are naturally curious and inquisitive persons.  It is the nature of their trade and their way of staying alive in a violent profession of their chosing.  They are often not dealing with respectable folks like you and me, so either give them the benefit of the doubt, or SAY NOTHING.

[45-70.gov]

thanks
760.053  i new  to  me

760.25  seems to cotradict.......the gun was  ''securly incased

i  do  not  intend  this to be an  attack  on law enforcement
just  had  mixed  feelings  being approaced  that  way
also  hope if  you are  approadched  to be polite  and let them  know us gun  nuts are  good people  too

[yooper77]

Profiling, nope not at all!

The officer was doing his job trying to verify you were legal.  People need to comply with whatever a police officer demands every time.  Like it or not, but they have this authority over you.  Actually if fail to comply with their demands, you are breaking the law by not following orders and should be and can be arrested.

yooper77

They do not have any absolute or unlimited legal authority over you.

Yes they do, and people go to jail for not complying everyday as they should.

If you feel the officer(s) have done something against your rights then you file a complaint against them after, not while they are questioning you or holding you for suspect or whatever they feel is needed at the time.

Off the subject, but remember the old 72 Year Old Grandma Gets Tazzed, well she deserved it because she was warned and failed to comply to the officers demands.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31202935/

yooper77

[Cabin4]

That closely matches the PA concealed carry law requirements. KY will be substaintially similar as well.

[myronman3]

the answer is no.  these guys were doing their job.    and, i think you handled it well.  i understand you may have felt like you were treated like a criminal, but you have to look at it from their point of view.  YOU knew you were legal; but they didnt KNOW you were, they just knew you SAID you were.  dead cops dont get second chances.   besides, they lightened up after they knew you were legal, right?  cut them some slack.   sounds like you met two good cops. 

[williamlayton]

The "old" Texas law "required" a person to identify that he had a CW permit on a violation stop or risk loosing the CW for a year.
As of Sept. 1--this year--there is no penalty for not showing the CW permit BUT the Director of Public Safety pleaded for folks too continue showing the permit. He says it allows the trooper to do his job with less stress.
The new law was enacted because some felt that it was a harsh penalty to pay for forgetting too show it.
I carry my DL and CW in the same location. I don't want to create any more stress on a person than he has in a traffic stop. I will guarentee that any police officer, with a lick of sense, feels tension on each and every stop.
They have a tough job too do and I--for sure--don't want to escalate the tension.
Dead is dead and no litigation will bring back life.
Blessings

[searlock]

when is the last time you saw protect and serve on a cop car?

[Sourdough]

Here in Alaska, we are required to inform any officer upon a traffic stop we are carrying and that we have a permit.  When giving them our drivers license we also are required to hand them our cc permit as well.

[45-70.gov]

the answer is no.  these guys were doing their job.    and, i think you handled it well.  i understand you may have felt like you were treated like a criminal, but you have to look at it from their point of view.  YOU knew you were legal; but they didnt KNOW you were, they just knew you SAID you were.  dead cops dont get second chances.   besides, they lightened up after they knew you were legal, right?  cut them some slack.   sounds like you met two good cops. 

this pretty well  somed  up my feelings
just wondered  how others felt  here

any  law enforcement  here  ??  like to hear from them
and  if there  are law enforecement  reading  this...just  know  it upset some people  a little
and  their  thanks for our  co-operation went  a long  way

i  do  feel  i was  profiled
i  do  agree  with  profileing  tho

[SHOOTALL]

In Va. we do not have to say anything when stopped they know from lic.
Also here if the weapon can be seen , or it prints or as in your case be seen in a container it can be taken and lic revoked for life along with a mistermenor (sp) conviction and fine . I reall don't think you were profiled .

[slim rem 7]

 heck if its concealed properly they never know its there... in my recent scrap... i had my 38 in in pant pocket ,,the whole time..it never became an issue...

[Land_Owner]

i  do  feel  i was  profiled

You gotta stop wearing that Hand Cannon in your "way down" cut-off shorts, white socks, and high top boots...or expect the profilin' to continue Bro. 

Got to hand it to you though, drumin' up prospective business - at the boat dock - is different and unusual.

[LONGTOM]

Shootall:

Also here if the weapon can be seen , or it prints or as in your case be seen in a container it can be taken and lic revoked for life along with a mistermenor (sp) conviction and fine . I reall don't think you were profiled .

Is the above just for CC permitt holders.

As VA is an open carry state, if you don't have a permit than it better be out in the open where they can see it.
Being a VIRGINIAN myself who practices open carry all the time I have never really checked to see what is required of a CC permit holder.


LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

If you live here then i am sure you know open carry of a handgun is not allowed on a boat at a public boat landing , nor is it allowed in some cities or communities with a population of over 100000 if memory serves me of course you can carry one if your jobs requires it or you have to work where you fear for your life ( who makes that decision ? like carry in a church is only allowed if nessary ). And yes that rule about printing is CC . Did you also realize if by chance you have cross words with someone while carring open and during the exchange you put your hand on the weapon or in any way move or jester to the weapon you can be charged with brandshing a weapon , crazy ain't it

[45-70.gov]

this  has been a very good discussion

here  is what  i have  learned so far and  what to do in the future

1......re-read  the law books
2....got a concealed  permit ....USE IT...keep it concealed
3.....be  aware [sinsitivity training]  others  don't enjoy  our inthusiasum for  guns
        my gun  may  upset   some one  LE  or who ever....so  hide  them better
4....matt  has  got to fix  spel chek
5.....thanks to  those  that  told me  i handled it well.....some times  i am  2 faced 
         and smile when  i am not happy....in this case  it  paid  off
        those  guys  did not  look  happy at  first  but  looked happy when they left

[T/Chmr]

Alittle off topic, but the TX concealed carry law requiring permit holders to notify a LEO during traffic stops was changed due to the "Castle Doctrine" enacted 2 yrs ago....It allowed non-permit holders to have a concealed weapon in their vehicle and not notify LEO during a traffic stop....change was made to bring concealed carry law in line with the "Castle Doctrine"

[rak55]

you just got an over active imagination.

[Cabin4]

you just got an over active imagination.

Just like all the minorities in this country. Constantly complaining about discrimination and profiling.

[45-70.gov]

you just got an over active imagination.

Just like all the minorities in this country. Constantly complaining about discrimination and profiling.

can't  argue  too much with either  point
i  almost didn't start  this thread for that reason
but  glad  i did

my  sinsitivity  training
i  now have a little   understanding  how  a profiled  person feels

this  is not to  say profiling  should not  happen.....i think  it works

[LONGTOM]

shootall:
I knew about the boat part.
I was really refering to a vehicle as far as being in the open.
Didn't know about the 100000 pop of some citys.
The brandishing part leaves a lot up to interpation of those involved and the LEO who may respond.


LONGTOM

[swordfish]

That all sounded routine to me, your son should not of had it visible. All's good and now you both know better. I may be wrong, but I don't think you should have said anything about you having a weapon on you unless they ask. I don't blame them for not letting you get your weapon. When asked for my weapon, I tell them to get it, always. That makes them at ease, which is what you want. Yes sir, and no sir, works also.

You may have been reverse profiled.   

[jimster]

I know if I were a LEO I would be profiling for sure.  Like every time I was behind a car where the driver was leaning way over to the middle of the car and driving real slow, I'd just want to make sure they were OK and not sick or something.  I guess if your too weak to sit straight up and drive there must be something wrong....just making sure the driver is OK.   

Truth really is I can't stand people that drive their cars leaning way over with their head in the middle of the car almost laying down,  see that a lot in the cities here in Michigan. 

[Cabin4]

Truth really is I can't stand people that drive their cars leaning way over with their head in the middle of the car almost laying down,  see that a lot in the cities here in Michigan. 

Everyone of them should be pulled over to make sure they are in good health and do not need medical attention. this is referred to as caring fo rhte public health and would obviuosly be supported by the Liberals.