Author Topic: Enfield L1A1, .308 (Read 2863 times)

rawhidekid · « **on:** September 11, 2009, 08:36:56 AM »

I bought an L1A1 in .308 cal made in Ishtapore, India. The gun shot great and I picked up some Indian ammo (one belt with stripper clips). Thought I had a match made in heaven. Ran out of ammo found 500 rounds of the same stuff at a gun show and bought all 500. The third round blue off my extracor. I weighed some and found 45 grn difference in weight from round to round. Bought a die set after replacing the extractor and pulled those bullets reloading them with new powder, primers and started to use 168 grain match bullets. Did not get the acuacy I expected and tried some of the pulled 147 Grn. Shot great! Now just got 450 to reload! Anyone else had expearance with these rifles?

AtlLaw · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2009, 10:06:53 AM »

Are you talking about the Indian copy of the FAL L1A1, or the SMLE 2A/2A1?

I have an Australian L1A1 and a SMLE 2A1, really like them bolth!

mannyrock · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2009, 01:35:22 PM »

Have you tried putting ten rounds in the magazine, and then firing all ten? Alot of the Ishapores will only feed about 5 or 6, and then the rest won't feed. Don't know why.

Regards,

Mannyrock

rawhidekid · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2009, 05:21:42 PM »

I went back to the safe and checked, it is the smle 2A, (is my face red). It has the 12 round mag and everything worked fine until the Indian ammo blew. I'll be reloading rounds for a month. It shoots great with my reloads though, rely like it and only paid $135.oo for it.
Does yours prefer the 147 grn also?

AtlLaw · « **Reply #4 on:** September 11, 2009, 07:29:11 PM »

I've got a few (thousand) rounds of Australian 7.62 147 gr. and the SMLE likes it just fine!

But then so do my FALS! Good stuff.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2009, 11:21:49 PM »

Like I said the stuff I got at the gun show is anything but good. 47 grains variation can and did cause severe trouble. When that case blew the extractor broke, the primer blew out and the primer hole became twice normal size. Luckily the overpresure gas vent on the left side of the chamber worked. I felt the gas but no damage to me. As I pull these bullets, the powder case to case is different. The cases evan when empty though do not weigh the same. This deffinetly is not match ammo!

efremtags · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:31:07 AM »

I have a short tanker model .303 that will shoot 1.5MOA a 100yds open sights with remington soft points. Its brutal to shoot with the steel but plate. The gun is very accurate for a 60year old battle rifle that was never taken care of.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #7 on:** September 12, 2009, 03:00:12 AM »

I have owned and shot the Jungle carbine, was pleasant to shoot, can't imagine a brutal .303

AtlLaw · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:24:50 AM »

Trust me, the Indian 7.62 ammo has not had a good reputation. I've been buying surplus ammo for many years and I would not buy it or the Turk 8mm. Well, I have a friend who wants to sell me 1300 rounds of the 8mm Turk, but I wouldn't give him what he paid for it some years ago...

securitysix · « **Reply #9 on:** September 13, 2009, 01:22:36 AM »

I bet I know exactly what happened. The first ammo you bought was made in India in the 1970s. The second ammo you bought was made in the 1990s. Check your headstamps, you'll find it to be true. The stuff made in the 70s is good stuff, and known to be so. It's packed on 5-round stripper clips in bandoleers.

The 1990s stuff is known to be complete crap and is usually packed loose or in 10-round blister packs. It is known to have a widely varying range of charge weights, but it all "looks" decent. It had such a bad rep that J&G Sales was selling it for $99/1000 and few bought it. The best thing to do with the 1990s Indian ammo, if you're stuck with it, is to pull the bullets, discard the powder, charge with your own powder, and re-seat the bullets.

Quote from: AtlLaw on September 12, 2009, 07:24:50 AM

Trust me, the Indian 7.62 ammo has not had a good reputation. I've been buying surplus ammo for many years and I would not buy it or the Turk 8mm. Well, I have a friend who wants to sell me 1300 rounds of the 8mm Turk, but I wouldn't give him what he paid for it some years ago...

I've actually been pretty happy with the Turk 8mm that I've used. A lot of it has split necks, so you have to inspect it, but what doesn't have split necks is just fine. What did have split necks, I pulled the bullets (by hand, they were that bad), dumped the powder into primed, commercial brass, then seated the Turkish bullets into that brass. I didn't think to weigh the powder from the cases, but I didn't blow myself up in the process, and it was as accurate (if not moreso) than the original ammo, plus it was non-corrosive at that point thanks to the new, commercial primer.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #10 on:** September 13, 2009, 04:32:42 AM »

Secuity Six; you are very close. My ammo was in blister packs but was made in 86 not 90. I don't trust the primers eather the only thing I am reusing are the brass and bullets, adding new primers and powder.

Brithunter · « **Reply #11 on:** October 01, 2009, 11:16:01 PM »

I see typical "High Quality" from the Indians

when will people learn and not buy the trash they put out.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2009, 02:29:00 AM »

I guess you missed the part that said the 70 year stamp, and bandoleer was good!

Brithunter · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2009, 08:01:17 AM »

No didn't miss it but if you make several million then a few will even by accident turn out acceptable.

You know I even found an Indian web site about guns and shooting and the Indian shooters were complaining about the crap quality of their home products. Were you aware that they still make the No1 Enfield as a sporting rifle in 8x50R or 0.315" bore as BSA called it. They claim accuracy od about 6"-8" ( in metric of course

) at 100 metres if I recall correctly

as I said high quality stuff they make.

It's not only guns that make poorly their steel is rubbish too from my experience but that's another story.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #14 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:22:51 AM »

I guess I must have gotten an exeption. Using the Indian brass and 147 grain bullets, just replacing primer & powder; the open sights on my A2 will keep all in bull at 100 yards. I shoot with a friend using a scoped Savage rifle and he does not shoot smaller groups. Another friend just bought the Springfield A1 short scout rifle and his groups are not as tight as my A2.

I may have gotten one in a million but I find that hard to believe. I do not know why this rifle will not shoot 168 grain match bullets better, but it won't.

It likes the 147 Grn so that is what I will shoot.

Brithunter · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:33:25 PM »

Glad your happy

but I would not allow one into the house and I try to avoid shooting near them on the range. I do not trust Indian of Pakistani quality control one bit.

On a side note I have a letter here from the old BSA gun company stating that they sold all their centre fire production tooling to a company in lahore pakistan yet no one has ever heard of it being used. I wonder what became of it?

rawhidekid · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:06:37 PM »

With the way things are overthere, we will probly never know. I enjoy the Enfields and have had several. This will probly be my last thou as I am reverting back to my handguns for hunting. Take care!

Brithunter · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2009, 12:17:20 AM »

And you, good luck with the hunting.

I am rather partial to the Enfields have a couple still. This is a BSA made commercial sportign rifle that I acquired some years back:-

Tang Safety (BSA Patent one)

Then a couple of years ago I got this No4 sporting conversion. The recoil pad has gone and it has a slimmer BSA rubber pad on it now:-

Several years ago I had a Parker-Hale Supreme on a 1916 No1 Mk111 BSA action and a P-H De Luxe also on a 1916 No1 Mk111 BSA action. Had to sell them to pay bills when unemployed

Mikey · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2009, 01:03:08 AM »

Brithunter: my No1 Mk111 is a plain jane military rifle made in 1913. The last I shot this for accuracy with open sights I was able to group within 2" at 100m, which I thought was just excellent (for me....).

rawhidekid · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2009, 01:19:46 AM »

The problem with the Enfield using anything but fullmetaljacket is the magazine. If you fire it singleshot, it will put one bullet atop the other. A soft nose bullet in the magazine however will strike the inside of the mag on recoil and you end up with three inch group if lucky!

I spent three hours one day trying to figure out why my gun would cluster if fed singly but spred with full mag. After emptying the mag after first shot and seeing the bent tips I figured it out.

That was with a mint MarkI number 2 by the way.

Brithunter · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2009, 02:41:22 AM »

Hmmm I have never noticed that problem

it may depend on what case and magazine follower you have there are several different ones meant for different bullet shapes. those for the RN MkV1 don't feed the spitzer MkV11 very well. The MkV I believe it was was in fact a RN Soft Point but of course that was banned under the Haigh Convention. I believe the No4 is harder to get this swopped round as by thier time the MkV11 was the basic ammo that had been in use since 1910.

The other thing is that the cartridge should not be able to travel forwards in the magazine

as the front ribs stop the shoulder moving forwards. I have the cut down Enfield case with Savage follower for that No4 sporter with a hand load in it in front of me now. My handload in this instance has a 200 grain cast gas checked lead bullet in it (actually loaded for the 303 Martini Muscat carbine) but it was too hand and saved me opening up the lockers and the tip of the bullet is over 1/8" away from the front of the magazine..

Oh BTW I found that the 174 Grain Hornady Round Nosed bullet is very accurate in the 303 Lee Enfield. I would have to look up my notes as the the powder and charge weight but it was accurate in several rifles I tried it in, think it was about 6 different rifles including a century Arms sporterised P-14, it shot high left or high right depending on the twist direction when compared to MkV11 ball. Same amount high, Enfields have left hand twist but the new Century barrel has right hand twist.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:05:13 AM »

I wasn't reloading at the time, factory Winchester ammo was used. The bullets flying forward in the mag was the problem, but over here in Arizona you must have no more than five round capable mag to hunt. This ruled out factory mag anyway. It is interesting on that note, that Midway USA offers a 5 round mag for my A2 for hunting!

On my wish list. Problem is I have so many kis & grandkids a month doesn't go by without someones birthday.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:06:41 AM »

I almost forgot, those are some fine rifles you have there!

Brithunter · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:23:47 AM »

Thank you, the magazine I have just put back in the rifle holds 5 rounds

it's a cut down Parker-Hale one and I also have a spare one like it as well. The BSA as you can see has a virtually flush magazine but I believe you can squeeze 6 rounds in it but that it forcing them in. The Lee Metford carbine had a 6 round mag if I remember correctly. The original Lee Metfords had a single stack 8 round magazine.

Of course the BSA of mine cannot be scoped as it has the bolt dustcover and no charger bridge. It would require removal of the dustcover and a side mount

so it remains an iron sighted rifle. As for the Winchester ammo I have shot a fair bit of that (X303B1) although I don't think that I have any left now. It's pure murder of Red Fox

:-

Another BSA, this time a Model E (sporterised P-14 dating from 1949-53)

Notice the bullet shape in the ear!

the fox turned his head as I squeezed the trigger. Winchester 180 grain factory.

As you can see I am fond of the 303

.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:43:08 AM »

Nice Fox, those dates remind me of age; I was born in 49, my wife 53!

I once had a jungle carbine I suspected started life as a number 4. The nice part was no floating zero, one of the many guns I miss.

It had the ladder sight w/peep. The peep wasn't accurate but oh man that ladder was right on.

Brithunter · « **Reply #25 on:** October 03, 2009, 07:12:20 AM »

Ahhh the battle sight, the large ring that's used when the ladder is folded down is set of 300 yards with boynet fixed or so it's claimed. My mate brought a No4 Conversion to No5 specs that i found. it was marked on the left wall No4 Conv. It too shot very well indeed.

saltydog · « **Reply #26 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:12:33 PM »

There are numerous posting on the internet warning - DO NOT USE INDIAN headstamp 308 AMMO Take heed and be thankful that was all that happened.

mike@nds · « **Reply #27 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:56:29 AM »

Ishapore 2A rifles are known to go out of headspace and start blowing extractors.

You probably helped this along with the bad ammo.

Unfortunately, they only list one bolt head size on the list of spare parts for the No.2 rifles.

Unlike the No.1Mk.3 which has 6 bolt head lengths.(IIRC)

I converted my 2A into a .22lr after I found that it was waaaaaay out of headspace.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #28 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:45:52 AM »

I replaced the extractor and reloaded the ammo, no further problems and the headspace is fine. Maybe you missed that there was 40 grns spread between cartridges?

This rifle is a tack driver with my reloads, in fact my best friend just bought a Springfield M1a tanker, we set the targets at 100 yrds and the Enfield shot significantly better. How much? He had a 4 inch group for 20 rounds three inches high and as many left. The Enfield was three inch and centered on the bulls eye.

This was done from the kneeling position shooting as fast as we could align the sights.

Brithunter · « **Reply #29 on:** November 28, 2009, 06:52:30 AM »

Glad you got it all sorted out

and yes I am even pleased it's proving accurate for you