Author Topic: primers sticking in MU plug  (Read 717 times)

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Offline Timbolero

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primers sticking in MU plug
« on: September 12, 2009, 10:46:31 AM »
  Got my 2nd plug from Nick at MU,installed it and decided to pop a few primers thru it minus powder/sabot/bullet. At this time I only have access to these 3 primer types,Federal Champion 209A,Winchester 209,and Winchester 777. The Federal and Standard Winchester 209s stick in the plug after firing ,requiring pliers to get them out,the 777 primers fall right out. I polished the inside of the primer pocket with a little emery paper wrapped around an undersized drill bit,still sticking. The standard Winchester 209s even blow fire out the primer carrier slot,enough to rip a hole in a paper towel draped over the hole.I had planned on shooting only Blackhorn 209 thru this rifle.I see some folks are using the 777 primers with BH 209 even though the company doesnt recommend it.Could I get some help on this one? Thanks

Offline Doug B.

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 10:58:32 AM »
For some reason my primers stick as well even after drilling the 7/8" plug primer pocket to 6.2mm. I am using the Federal 209A's which require me to use a tool that I bought to remove the primer after firing. Thought about drilling it out to .250" but not certain how that might effect the overall accuracy, or if blow back might become a problem. Right now I'm in a 3/4" circle at 60 yards with my red dot, 240gr. Hornady XTP and 90gr. BH209. Hate to wreck a good thing. Anybody with any experience drilling/milling out to .250" instead of 6.2mm? Not too much difference I'd say, splitting hairs.
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Offline Timbolero

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 01:17:32 PM »
Maybe Nick will come across this post and have some insight,if not I will try to call him Monday.My rough measurement of the flame channel is .050,but it sure seems to be building some back pressure.Any input is good input,keep em comin! Thanks Doug

Offline Nick Allen

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 01:56:34 AM »
Hi Tim, despite what everyone says......... The T-7 primer by Win, will light up the BH 209 with no issue what so ever.  ( in fact it is what I shoot with). What is happening with the hotter primers, they are expanding in the pocket like any primer does. They just do it a tad more because they are a hotter primer. If you insist that you want to use the hotter primers, I can send you a plug with the pocket reamed out slightly larger. Or if you want to try and do it yourself, feel free. I won't play they game of saying I won't stand behind the plug if you messed with it. After all all of these guns are slightly different so it is to be expected that a few have some issues.

So if ya screw it up, I'll send ya a new one. I am not worried about that at all.

Doug, give this a try.............. Try firing a charged gun with the hotter primer, but this time try it with out the o-ring. What this will tell you is, if the primer does not stick, the pocket needs to be slightly deeper to allow for the O-ring. If it still sticks I would like to see it come back to me. I would then need to ream the pocket a touch.

I hope this helps out guys.

Nick

Offline Timbolero

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 03:29:35 AM »
Nick,As soon as it dries out around here I will give it a range session with the 777 primers,some people seem to have misfires etc with the BH/777 combo,others have not.I dont have a problem doing a little work on the plug,just didnt want to go messin where I shouldnt till I heard from you. I think I speak for everyone here when I say Thanks for the great customer service,it IS appreciated! You're providing a great product at a very reasonable price.When things are made BY shooters,FOR shooters it just seems to work better all the way around. I will make a report here when I get things workin for me,Thanks Again!

Offline Kernbigo

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 04:38:26 AM »
I had the same problem with the win. 209 shotshell primers, Nick sent me a diferent plug and it works fine. The problem is some guns have such a tight breech clearance like mine.If you take the o-ring out it will work. Can't say enough about Nick's service. Kernbigo

Offline Busta

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 06:59:13 AM »
Timbolero,

Get yourself one of the flat steel 209 primer capper/decappers, they work wonders on stubborn primers. You can buy them for under $5, and worth every penny. It is a very good investment to have handy while hunting especially. I can go through a whole shooting session sometimes with no sticky primers, but other times, depending on the charges and bullet weights I will have some that stick occasionally. If you have the tool to remove them, it only takes an extra second. If you don't, you are done for the day. If you need a follow up shot in a hunting situation and you get a sticky primer, it will be money well spent. Not all primers are created equally, not even the same brand from one lot to another. Not everyone shoots the same primers, powders/charges, or bullets/weights, all factors of sticky primers.

Im with Nick as far a 777 primers go with the MU Plug, I have tested every primer I can get my hands on with BH209, and never had even the slightest delay. The short path to the powder allows a very large percent of the heat, flame, and pressure to reach the charge. I would not recommend them for a Knight, T/C, CVA, Traditions, or any other breech plug due to the long flame path they have to go through.

Like Nick has stated, the tollerances on these rifles must have a pretty wide window. You can get away with that when you use that leaky plastic primer carrier, as evidenced by the massive blowback, but when we want a precision fitted breech plug the differences in rifles is very noticable. There is only .003" difference in my examples, but there are others that have much larger deviations, maybe as much as .010" or more. Then add in ALL the primer variations, as much as .010" in just length alone, and you have a real headache to deal with. I really think that this is the reason nobody else besides Nick wanted to deal with it. Thanks Nick!

If Nick wouldn't have taken on this challenge, we wouldn't even be able to discuss shooting Blackhorn 209 out of the NEF Huntsman/Sidekick rifles without paying a gunsmith to custom make a breech plug for YOUR rifle. I would hazzard a guess that I have more Huntsman/Sidekick breech plugs (at least 18) than anyone I know of, and Nick's MU breech plug is the ONLY (non-custom) available plug that will ignite Blackhorn 209 reliably. The .25 ACP breeech plug will not do it reliably either, so save your $59.99 + Shipping. I have a custom Hubbard plug (needed .012" shim below the 209 primer pocket adapter), and another custom plug that will do it, but these were "one time deals".

Follow Nick's advice, and you will get it figured out. I have meet Nick in person, you won't find a better guy to deal with. All of my CUSTOM plugs had to be tweaked to fit the rifles just a little bit, it is just the "nature of the beast" when it comes to these H&R/NEF muzzleloaders. Once you get it right, you will love it. I will take my $200 Huntsman over any other muzzleloader in my safe, and it has some very good company. 3 White's, 7 Knight's, 3 H&R/NEF's, and 1 T/C.

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Offline Timbolero

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 07:49:09 AM »
Busta, I will pick up one of those decappers next trip to town...just in case.After deepening the pocket about .004 and slightly enlarging the diameter I had a Fed 209A stick so bad I almost didnt get it out. I believe this is now above my pay grade.I will shoot live loads of BH209 and 777 primers next week,if everything works I'm callin it good.I appreciate all the help from everyone,if not for forums like this I would put a bullet thru this computer and never look back...

Offline smokepole06

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Re: primers sticking in MU plug
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2009, 02:32:55 PM »
Nick,
I sent you a PM.
Smokepole06