22 ammo question

[marbill]

My wife and I recently received our ccw permits. She likes to shoot her 22 pistol and wants to carry it. Is there any decent personal defense rounds avail. for 22 Lr. ?  We have others she can use but she likes the 22 and shoots it very well.
Thanks. Bill

[Graybeard]

The .22LR is a piss poor self defense round at best. I strongly urge you to carry something more potent. I personally rate the .25 acp above it.

I guess if I were gonna carry one for protection (which I am NOT) then I'd like chose CCI Stingers assuming they feed reliably in the gun. You don't say what type gun this is or even if revolver or semiauto. If semiauto for sure what will function 100% is the most important consideration tho I must say I've yet to own or see a 100% reliable feeding .22LR semiauto.

I've seen some recommend solids as it has little enough penetration as is and they say you need all you can get. That's a hard argument to disagree with and if you subscribe to that idea then I'd recommend CCI SGB with the flat nose to deliver a bit more shock while still penetrating more deeply than would an HP. Still I've seen what the Stinger does to small game and I guess I'd rather trust it than a solid or any other HP. Those really are the only two I'd consider if I were gonna carry a .22LR for defense which as I said I NEVER WILL.

[marbill]

Thanks for the reply. I want HER to carry a 5 shot 38 much better choice IMO.
But she likes her 22 . Maybe in time she will be more comfortable with something a little bigger. Thanks again. Bill

[Bitterroot Bob]

Seriously,
I know that the First Rule of Gunfighting is to Have a Gun. But a .22LR won't even attract your assailant's attention right away. I suppose a 60-grain Aguila pressed against the bad guy might reach something important, but the whole point of the gun is to keep the bad guy from getting that personal.
Why isn't your wife comfortable with a .38SPL or 9mm? Women frequently surprise me by taking a liking to BIG guns. My daughter has her eyes on my .44WCF Colt clones after shooting some really tiny groups one weekend. My wife shoots my .41 Magnum Blackhawk without batting an eye and carries a S&W .38- because she understands and likes revolvers. Mikey's wife fell in love with the 1911 the first time she shot it.
My wife doesn't care much for auto-loaders because she isn't comfortable with their operation. I doubt that she would care anything about caliber so long as it was a revolver. I put a set of Lasermax grips on her gun and she now thinks it is the coolest thing ever.
Sure, buy a .22 to practice technique with, but do not rely upon it as a defensive weapon, unless you are planning to use it to obtain a larger one.
When the fertilizer hits the ventilator recoil won't matter. She'll be able to handle a 454 Casull in a bad situation.
Shoot more. Try more stuff.

Bitterroot

[blhof]

My wife was intimidated by my 9mm, but felt comfortable with my son's 380 and she shoots it quite well.  The 380 isn't very powerful, but it is still a lot more than the 22.  The 380's are relatively light recoiling, except in the ultra small pocket pistols.

[fr3db3ar]

You won't really gain a lot of benefit from shooting stingers over standard velocity ammo out of a pistol.  I like the sound of using the  60 gr just for impact.  I don't know about penetration on that round cause I'm pretty sure it will be tumbling right from the end of the barrel.

The best defense is distance.

[kynardsj]

Feeding reliably is a key issue here too. Unless I missed it you didn't mention what kind of 22 she was packing. My wife loves a 9 shot model 94 Taurus revolver. Little 4 inch gun is accurate and is about as bad as it's gonna be with Remington Yellow Jackets in it. I've seen what they can do to water jugs and although it isn't considered a man stopper it would surely mess up a bad guys day. That and she's very comfortable and confident with it.

[mcwoodduck]

I have carried my little Walther TPH when out on walks with the dog.  More as a noise maker and anti Coyote than anything else.
I carried in it what would cycle through the gun.  I thought heavier was better and tried some of the 60 grainers.
they worked and put down a good sized agressive Yote with a hit to the chest.  He needed four more to finish him.  But it did the job I wanted it to.  I guess it depends on what kind of situations you think you could get into as to what you are going to carry.
If she is confidant with the 22 and can hit what and where she is aiming and it is Legal to carry in your state.  
I say let her carry it and instill in her that it is not going to be a one round fight, even is it was for the 1911 Gold cup Vs. the Jennins in Marshal's book street stoppers.  Two men got into a fight in a boarding house and each went to get his gun.
the guy with the 45, loaded with 7 rounds of ball saw the Jennings and laughed and shot the guy with the jenning all 7 times with Ball ammo.
the guy with the Jennings shot one stinger strait into the heart of the guy with the 45.  Guy with the 45 died where he fell.  the guy holding the 22 with 7 ball rounds through him took two busses to the hospital and lived.
Shot placement is everything.

[Autorim]

Personally, I don't discount the .22LR as a defensive round. From everything I have read, the mere presence of a firearm can defuse a bad situation. My go anywhere handgun is an 8 shot .22LR Model 317 Smith with Lasergrips. I practice with it and shoot it quite well. If I want to carry more, I move up to the XDM9's. Past that I will carry the M29-2 .44mag.

Your wife can practice a lot with the .22 and can become quite proficient as well as having a lot of fun. I guess it depends on where you live and in what situations you place yourself or are forced to be in. I feel very comfortable with 8 shots of .22LR in most situations because I know where I can put them.

Is it the best defensive cartridge? No. But, the best gun is the one you have with you and can shoot really well.

[JJ79]

My wife and I recently received our ccw permits. She likes to shoot her 22 pistol and wants to carry it. Is there any decent personal defense rounds avail. for 22 Lr. ?  We have others she can use but she likes the 22 and shoots it very well.
Thanks. Bill

.22 is better than nothing at all...but she needs to understand that if it ever comes down to actually having to use the weapon, she can empty the mag into the BG, and unless she gets a head/spine hit...he can, and probably will, still get to her & do her harm.

deer shot through the heart/lungs with much more substantial weapons can travel for some yards....

if she's gonna carry, then she needs to be serious enough about it to develop the necessary skills...which would entail learning to shoot a larger caliber gun.

one piece of advice I'd give is...forget the idea that ladies need to carry small guns.  for some reason, everyone always thinks that women should carry little J-frames or pocket pistols...the hardest weapons available to shoot accurately...why???    we all know a longer barrel = more velocity/energy, as well as better accuracy.  and a heavier gun will recoil less with all loads you put through it...

most women would probably purse-carry anyway, so if concealment wouldn't be an issue, get her a bigger gun...the largest that she can still comfortably carry/conceal, and if necessary, use lighter loads.

look at a Springfield XD in 9mm....either the sub-compact, or service model.  shooting a lighter load, such as Hornady Critical Defense, these guns would have negligible recoil...and they're sturdy as a Mack truck.

or a Ruger SP101 w/3" barrel...load it w/.38s if that's what she's more comfortable with...still MILES better than that .22 

[marbill]

Thank you all for weighing in on this. My wife likes " her " 22 ". She has shot  38's, 357 mag, And my 45 acp. She has heard just about everything posted above. I think the more she shoots the more " she " will decide to upgrade to a larger cal. And that is what it boils down to .  She shoots the heck out of the paper targets , That is totally different from the point of carrying . She has come along way from where we started. I will support her but I will try to coax her into shooting the larger pistols alot more.  Thanks again.   Bill

[JJ79]

Thank you all for weighing in on this. My wife likes " her " 22 ". She has shot  38's, 357 mag, And my 45 acp. She has heard just about everything posted above. I think the more she shoots the more " she " will decide to upgrade to a larger cal. And that is what it boils down to .  She shoots the heck out of the paper targets , That is totally different from the point of carrying . She has come along way from where we started. I will support her but I will try to coax her into shooting the larger pistols alot more.  Thanks again.   Bill

say no more Bill, we all understand....  "if Mama ain't happy, nobody's happy."   

I think you're right...she'll get there in time.  you just gotta figure out a way to make it seem like it was her idea... 

[rockbilly]

If that is what she is comfortable with then by all means let her carry it.  It wouldn’t be my choice, but it better than a sharp stick.

Seriously, I think a lot of folks are carried away with big bore guns, look at the number of people that boast the .40 caliber class weapons.  Many of these folks gain their confidence by the size of the bore, not their ability to shoot.  If she shoots the .22 well it may be more effective in her hands than a bigger bore gun.  Three or four well placed shots with a .22 will do more to defuse a bad situation than several missed and bad hits with a .44 mag.  JMHO.

[SHOOTALL]

three or 4 well placed shots , like you will have time . The 357 mag. holds the first place position for one shot stops so why jump to the 44 mag ?
 The idea of self defense is to stop aggression plain and simple . If you want to kill someone thats different and illegal in most places . When choosing a bullet/gun /round then you need to address what will reliably stop an attack in a worst case situation . Think about it if you knew how volient an attack was comming and could match your gun then why go in the first place ?
So if you look into it then a 357 mag. is best with several other rounds neck in neck with it , 40 S&W , 45 ACP , 44 SPL. 45 Colt , 38 SPL +P to name but a few .
To be sure the 22 RF , 22 MAG. are not at the top of this list , something to consider as important .
If i suggested a round it would be the 327 federal mag. in either a SP 101 or J frame S&W . Pratice with 32 long ( not much more kick than a 22 LR then bump it up to 327 FM for carry .

[45-70.gov]

she  wants to carry......you  ahead in  this game already

cci stinger   33% stopper.....with a single hit  [according to the  ''book'']
22 40grain  solids     22%  stopper

i  still  preffer  the solids  tho
 but hard  to argue with documented results from actual shootings

38 round nose 50%
45 round nose  55%
9mm  round nose 5?%   all from memory
357 mag  125gr   HP  97%..........what  i carry

i  like the  sgb  small game bullet    a flat nose  but  done no testing
quick-shock  has a bullet  that breaks into 4 peices  i like  too

[mcwoodduck]

Oh the other think I wanted to say about 22 ammo is i have never had any of the CCI ammo go Click and not bang.
And since this is for personal Protection...... Click is a bad thing.
If she has an auto.
You may want to get some of the 22 snap caps and stick one in her mag to see what she does to clear a bad primed round and teach her what to do.

[bluecow]

I have stated in the past that id rather have a 22 that goes bang every time than something i have to wonder about.  having said that the 22 is far and away from my frist chioce.  get her as much range time as you can try  every gun you can lay your hands on.  if she must carry a 22, get her shooting in the face/neck fast and accurate.  its like birdshot the more pellets that hit the better.  ya there is doc. of people being hit with a 22 and doing all sorts of things, there is also doc. of elefants being killed with one 22 lr shot.  im willing to bet that most of us with 4,6,8 22 in the upper chest neck and face will be mighty sick and have change of mind.

[Oldshooter]

A man I respect told me once to never carry a 25 and if you do never ever shoot someone with it, cause if you do and they find out about it they are gonna be very angry with you!

Now i feel the same way about a 22, cause in close quarters someone shot with a 22 can kill you before he realizes hes dead!

The man I am speaking of was a Lt in the Louisiana State Police(former Marine) and leader of a swat team in Baton Rouge and I value his opinion! 

[GatCat]

CCI Velocitor.
Mark

[Mikey]

There are some wild stories of people being shot at near point blank ranges with 22s or 25s and then getting themselves to hospitals for help and there are tons of stories out there about bad guys showing off their bullet wound scars from even 32s and 9mms, but nobody talks about their buddy who got whacked with a 22 - bad Karma I guess. 

That being said, there are lots and lots of dead guys who never knew it was a 22 or 25 that got them and to be honest, anyone who can skip cans at close range with either of those two smaller calibers stands a much better chance at defending themselves with a pocket pistol than with something they cannot hit with.

Neither of these calibers penetrate well but penetrate they do and they will killya whether you think they will or not.  22lrs from short barrelled semi-autos or snub nosed revolvers do not even get up to 1000'/sec, but they will penetrate a neck or throat; at close range they will penetrate a chest, which is both painful and debilitating as is any bone injury - gut shots are usually deterring.  If you put two more on top of the first one you will have yourself a very sick assailant who will just want to get away from you.  If you try and shoot through heavy muscle you won't do much damage.

Pocket rockets are for those (my opinion only) who have experience using small caliber pistols in defensive or clandestine situations - they are not for everyone.  If you carry a 22 or 25 you need to be prepared to shoot, and shoot again or again and again.  You have a very small number of damagable body parts that if hit with a small caliber will either stop or deter a assailant, so you have to be good with the pistol and committed to your own defense to use one effectively.  That being said, a repeat of the statement that anyone who can skip cans with a pocket pistol stands a much better chance at defending themselves than with something they cannot hit with. 

I practice with my pocket rockets regularly.  I know exactly where they hit.  I don't carry anything expanding, I would rather trust to solids.  I would not get into a running gun battle with a pocket rocket but if I think I'm going to get jumped on by some idjits and my retreat is blocked, then the pistol comes out in one hand and the spare magazine comes out in the other and the first idjit who asks what I'm gonna do with that little thing is the first one to get shot.  jmtcw.

[Bob Riebe]

You still have not said which firearm she will be using.

My cousin once had, moron for selling, a High Standard Victor. Now how fast one can empty a firearm is not truly important but with that firearm one could easily empty the magazine and reload before a goblin could finish taking a second step.

The point is the quality of the firearm and ammunition. With a .22 if possible it would be best to shoot the goblins crotch. Unless the goblin is on drugs, no one goes far after that.

RWS high velocity .22 is as good as it gets, and not that expensive.

[1marty]

If she really needs it for protection I would ditch the 22 idea. Even if she shoots the bad guy the likelihood is she'll just wind up in most cases with a very angry bad guy. My wife has a ppks 380 and although somewhat marginal is 10 times better than a 22.

[45-70.gov]

You still have not said which firearm she will be using.

My cousin once had, moron for selling, a High Standard Victor. Now how fast one can empty a firearm is not truly important but with that firearm one could easily empty the magazine and reload before a goblin could finish taking a second step.

The point is the quality of the firearm and ammunition. With a .22 if possible it would be best to shoot the goblins crotch. Unless the goblin is on drugs, no one goes far after that.

RWS high velocity .22 is as good as it gets, and not that expensive.

people laugh about the croch  shot

the   aorta  and  femeral  arteries  connect  there

better  than  hitting the carodid artery  in the neck [some incorrectly call it the jugular]

and  yes  i feel  faint  thinking  about other  targets in that area

[SHOOTALL]

face facts , to be effective a 22 is a up the nose , in the ear , in an eye socket type gun . I have not seen many women or men that can make that shot while fighting off someone bent on killing , hurting or raping them . Self defense is about giving yourself the best chance you can not comfort . Anything else why bother ? false hope ?

[SHOOTALL]

BTW in a short bbl handgun the hyper 22's don't have enough bbl to achive top speed and are really a waste . Any good standard vel. solid would work as well as anything .

[Hank08]

I always think of the taxi driver in San Francisco who was shot 6 times in the head from a passenger in the backseat with a .22, don't know what gun or what ammo but they all flattened against his skull.  He apparently was very hard headed.  Another problem ,especially with .22 autos ,is the trip up the ramp sometimes dislodges the priming compound from under the rim and then it won't fire.  You'll get a lot more failures to fire in an auto than a revolver.
When a .22 cartride doesn't fire twist the bullet out and dump the powder in your hand you'll , usually, find the yellow or green priming compound , that's fallen out,in the powder.
H08

[rockbilly]

And when we talk of the under powered .22s and .25s I always think of the policeman in Jackson Ms that was killed by a single bullet from a Raven .25 at a distance of about .40 yards, and of the perp who was hit several times by the office with his .40 and survived to tell about it.

Each of can likely cite many cases pro or con for the little calibers, but bottom line, they are still better than a sharp stick.  IN addition, hasn’t the .22 been the weapon of choice for professional assailants for almost a hundred years?

While it wouldn’t be my choice for a personal defense weapon, I would not condemn anyone if it were their choice

[SHOOTALL]

never condem the person but have no problem pointing out the weakness of a 22RF

[southernutah]

smallest that is packed in this house is NAA black widow in 22 mag, next up Beretta Tomcat 32 with fmj ammo. goes big after that.

[WD45]

You say she likes her 22. well I would ask her how much she likes life itself or if she has children she may have to defend THEIR lives with her 22 and is she comfortable with that? I like my 22's also but would not want to defend my life with one. Yea it may be better than a stick but you may want to carry the stick too. If she is good and comfy with a 22 then she can get good and comfy with something larger in at least the 32/380 range. If she insists on the 22 then I would at least insist on the 22 mag. Also remember you are more than likely going to be tryng to hit a moving target ( you may be moving also )that could on top of you in a couple seconds. Try this one.. put your gun in the place you normally carry. Run up and down the stairs or hill a few times and get your heart pumping like it probably would be ,then pull your weapon and fire  ( at a target  )quickly like you may have to in a bad situation. It can be quit the eye opener. It's also fun to ride the guys that don't land even one on the target