Puma Bounty Hunter "Mares Leg"

[dave hall]

Anyone buying on of these.I love watching Wanted Dead or Alive. I've had the 9 DVD box set for a year or so,but I never thought someone would mass produce the '92 .I know JB Custom made a few.
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_bhunterm87shot.html

[Rangr44]

A local FFL has had one hanging on his back wall for a while now - with no takers @ $1200 or so.

I know that I didn't even want to handle it, at that price.

.

[Graybeard]

I see ZERO practical use for one. Oh sure it looked good in the TV show and might look good on your wall if you have that kinda money to spare for a wall hanger but other than that what the heck would you do with it?

[dave hall]

I could carry it hunting in the swamp by where I live 35 yd shot if your lucky.The same place I carry my 45 Blackhawk.Target shooting would be fun,too.Alot of people spend more than that on semi-autos an you can't even hunt with those here.

[dpe.ahoy]

I would really like one, but the money they have on em is more than I will spend on one.  DP

[45-70.gov]

i  have  one  in 44 magnum

i  always wanted  to get the paper work and build  one

this is a cheaper  and easyer way to go

it  has zero practical use  as  Mr, Beard  said

but  it is unique  and not for sail

i would never prefer  it  to a good revolver

but  i dont know how many revolvers i have  and  one mares leg

[Cabin4]

SASS.

[Graybeard]

SASS.

To what end? As a rifle it won't hold the required ten shots for a relay and I seriously doubt they would accept it for a handgun and even if they did it would be slower and likely less accurate than a revolver.

[Cabin4]

SASS.

To what end? As a rifle it won't hold the required ten shots for a relay and I seriously doubt they would accept it for a handgun and even if they did it would be slower and likely less accurate than a revolver.

I'm not familair with the details of the gun. SASS was my only thought on what practicle use it could be. I agree its likly less accurate than a revolver and I did not realize or consider shot capacity. Perhaps it has no real use other than a fun tin can shooter. But at over a grand, its a tuff sell.

[Oldshooter]

Alls I can say is that I remember the show and and the link says 50's. Can I be thaT OLD ? I was sure it was the sixties !

McQueen brought in many a desperado with one of those! Guess he got the drop on them while they was scratching their heads? Wondering what use it was?

 

[45-70.gov]

the  JB custom  is  1.5 inches  longer  than steve mcqweens gun
so  it  would  hold six rounds  makeing it  ''more'' practical for sass

it comes with  ATF letter  stating it is a pistol
''mares leg  pistol''  stamped on the barrel

steve  mcqueen  carried  45-70  bullets  in  his  belt  for  show
his  gun was   chambered  for  45  colt  blanks
the  gun  you saw  on  TV  was  a registered  NFA  weopon

this  gun  certainly  gets  a closer  look at the range
if  not for the  paper  work  i would love to install  a full stock
my  trappers  have a full  lenth  stock and are  only six inches longer barrel


if  you   got the  itch....scratch  it.....
.get  one......you can  always make  more money...
.money all  looks the same
this is a truely  unique gun

[gstewart44]

The TV show had a great amount of "Cool" to it.   However, the practicality of a Mare's leg harkens back to the original Volcanic repeating pistol.  Didn't work very well as a handgun but spawned the Henry rifle and the generations of all other lever rifles/carbines that followed.   

[gstewart44]

steve  mcqueen  carried  45-70  bullets  in  his  belt  for  show
his  gun was   chambered  for  45  colt  blanks
the  gun  you saw  on  TV  was  a registered  NFA  weopon

this  gun  certainly  gets  a closer  look at the range
if  not for the  paper  work  i would love to install  a full stock
my  trappers  have a full  lenth  stock and are  only six inches longer barrel

Just got to thinking - would it be legal to have a 4-6"  "lace on" or "slip on" leather/rubber recoil pad on the Mare's Leg?   Not trying to suggest trying anything illegal but is the recoil pad considered seperate from the stock?

[Kal52]

I am guessing now that it has proven itself to be an extremely potent zombie killer, zombieland, it will become much more popular now.

I know I still want one, dont care one bit if it doesnt have a practical use, ive bought more guns that ive no use for than i have that do.

I think its a very fun looking gun, and may just be a good coyote popper, yeah thats it, hmmmmmmm 

Ok, just got back from a local gunshop, and guess what they had in the case, LOL, nice feeling/looking gun, though I wish that the lever wasnt so dang big, makes it super bulky for no purpose, I can definately see myself with one now, put a red dot, or one of those little halos on it, lol. It would make a nice tree stand gun for sure, dont know how accurate they are though.


Dave

[45-70.gov]

it  kicks  pretty  good   in  44 mag

that  12 in barrel   with  no gas  leaks at the cylender
squeezes  all  the house power out  of this round

44  speacials  are  real  nice and  easy and  quiet

i  put a wrist strap  on  the saddle ring
don't want  my face behind  that straight grip and steel butt plate  with out  the strap

almost  went  with    357

[Cabin4]

What do you think of this idea: You pick up a used lever gun, say a Puma 92 for about $350 in your favorite caliber. Take it to a gunsmith and have him cut the bbl back and redo the wood. I'm not a smith but I'm guessing you could get a smith to do that work for about $400. Now instead of $1,200 for a new Mares Leg, you get one for about $750ish range, maybe less. I sure would like to get a smith who may be reading this thread to comment.

[gstewart44]

Cabin4 - A smith could chop a Win 92 down to 12 inches but it would take a BATFE permit and a $200 NFA tax to own it as it has become a "sawed off rifle".    The company that makes the "new" Mare's leg has built them from the ground up as a "lever action pistol" and can be sold without the permit as a regular handgun.   

[Cabin4]

Cabin4 - A smith could chop a Win 92 down to 12 inches but it would take a BATFE permit and a $200 NFA tax to own it as it has become a "sawed off rifle".    The company that makes the "new" Mare's leg has built them from the ground up as a "lever action pistol" and can be sold without the permit as a regular handgun.   

So it sounds like it could be done but the $200 extra BATF tax cost might make it financially not reasonable. Still curious what a smith would charge for the job. The other point might be, you have an old lever gun laying around so the $350 cost to buy a used one is not part of the calculation. Just interesting and thanks for the insight.

[45-70.gov]

Cabin4 - A smith could chop a Win 92 down to 12 inches but it would take a BATFE permit and a $200 NFA tax to own it as it has become a "sawed off rifle".    The company that makes the "new" Mare's leg has built them from the ground up as a "lever action pistol" and can be sold without the permit as a regular handgun.   

So it sounds like it could be done but the $200 extra BATF tax cost might make it financially not reasonable. Still curious what a smith would charge for the job. The other point might be, you have an old lever gun laying around so the $350 cost to buy a used one is not part of the calculation. Just interesting and thanks for the insight.

also  crossing  state  lines  is complicated


but  doing  it like you  want  you can  have  a full stock...
.i  can't  with out  paying  the  $200  and  complications

i  have  a  nine inch  12 gage o/u
i  like  it much better with  the full stock  attached

[teddy12b]

I'm young enough I don't have a clue about that tv show.  I think the rifle looks cool and I'd probably buy one if it was in the same price range as the other puma 92 rifles.  The gun isn't $1,200 cool for me, but I could see why someone would buy one.

[wganz]

Cabin4 - A smith could chop a Win 92 down to 12 inches but it would take a BATFE permit and a $200 NFA tax to own it as it has become a "sawed off rifle".    The company that makes the "new" Mare's leg has built them from the ground up as a "lever action pistol" and can be sold without the permit as a regular handgun.   

So it sounds like it could be done but the $200 extra BATF tax cost might make it financially not reasonable. Still curious what a smith would charge for the job. The other point might be, you have an old lever gun laying around so the $350 cost to buy a used one is not part of the calculation. Just interesting and thanks for the insight.

Most gun smyths won't touch that job and you would have to have it sent to those that have (I believe,haven't had my java yet ) a Class 03 license to build an SBR. Most are fairly reasonable with their prices from what I recall when I last checked with prices going ~$45 but this would have extra work to move the magazine band and reblue. The barrel may be tapered which would cause some additional work/fitting.

In the end, it would be simplier to get the Mare's Leg, go the trust route to get the tax stamp on the Form 1, and fit a stock once the tax stamp is in hand. Getting a 5320.20 for interstate travel with it isn't a problem unless you're trying to take it to a nonpermissive state.

As for the 'practicality' of it all, a carbine is always more accurate and faster on target than a pistol. Period. Especially with multiple shots that would be required for multiple perps in a home invasion.  A 12" carbine is highly mobile and gets more velocity(hence KE) out of a pistol caliber cartridge than a 4" pistol does.

I'm not going to get one since I've already got a couple 11.5" AR15 SBR's and have one that is out of the safe at night by the bed. There has never been anyone charged for using a legit registered NFA weapon in self defense. If it is a righteous self defense shoot, then it is a righteous self defense shoot. Those that claim contrary are challenged to post linkage to the incident. Also, on my ATF Form 1's in block 4i, I put as the reason, "SELF DEFENSE, HUNTING, COMPETITION, AND ANY OTHER LEGAL REASON". So if questioned at the grand jury hearing on why I shot little Johnny Nogood with such an 'evul black rifle' whose baby ain't done nuffin and was going to turn his lifes arounds, I can respond that a federal regulatory agency had previously approved its use in self defense.

Always remember that FDR wanted the 1934 NFA to apply to all firearms.

[wganz]

I'll address the concerns about the "practicality" of an SBR carbine vs. a handgun. The following quotes are from the FBI's "HANDGUN WOUNDING FACTORS AND EFFECTIVENESS".

page 3
A review of law enforcement shootings clearly suggests that regardless of the number of rounds fired in a shooting, most of the time only one or two solid torso hits on the adversary can be expected. This expectation is realistic because of the nature of shooting incidents and the extreme difficulty of shooting a handgun with precision under such dire conditions. The probability of multiple hits with a handgun is not high. Experienced officers implicitly recognize that fact, and when potential violence is reasonably expected, their preparations are characterized by obtaining as many shoulder weapons as possible. Since most shootings are not anticipated, the officer involved cannot be prepared in advance with heavier armament. As a corollary tactical principle, no law enforcement officer should ever plan to meet an expected attack armed only with a handgun.

The SBR will have four points of contact with the shooter; these being butt stock to shoulder, one hand to grip area, the other hand further out on the forearm, and the cheek weld on the stock. The handgun shooter will have only one hand directly on the pistol and the other should be on the second hand. The sights of the SBR are separated further than on the handgun and are better held in alignment by the cheek weld. The handgun's sights are held at arm's length from the shooter and are steadied by 1 1/2 hand grips. The six shots of the Mares Leg should get the two COM shots needed. What is amazing is the number of people that have a six shot revolver for home defense but say that the same number of shots from the Mares Leg is somehow inadequate.

Advantage to the SBR here in being able to sight more accurately when stressed to get more hits.

page 8
Frequently, forensic pathologists cannot distinguish the wound track caused by a hollow point bullet (large temporary cavity) from that caused by a solid bullet (very small cavity).

Thought that this was interesting since I've used .45 ACP FMJ almost all my life.

page 9
Psychological factors such as energy deposit, momentum transfer, size of temporary cavity or calculations such as RII are irrelevant or erroneous. The impact of the bullet upon the body is no more that the recoil of the weapon. The ratio of bullet mass to target mass is too extreme.

...

A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.

So much for the old story about 'blowing someone away' with a 12 gauge.

page 11
Handgun bullets expand in the human target only 60-70% of the time at best. Damage to the hollow point by hitting bone, glass, or other intervening objects can prevent expansion. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of the bullet in a cocoon like manner and prevent expansion. Insufficent impact velocity caused by short barrels and/or longer range will prevent expansion, as will simple manufacturing variations. Expansion must never be the basis for bullet selection, but considered a bonus when, and if, it occurs. Bullet selection should be determined based on penetration first, and the unexpanded diameter of the bullet second, as that is all the shooter can reliably expect.

It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration of up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.

It is easier for a strongly built bullet to reach the 18" penetration goal with higher velocities of the longer SBR barrel that is 2~3X longer than a pistol barrel. Here is one of the best sites on this:  http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Page 13
Further, it appears that many people are predisposed to fall down when shot. This phenomenon is independent of caliber, bullet, or hit location, and is beyond the control of the shooter. It can only be proven in the act, not predicted. It requires only two factors to be effected: a shot and cognition of being shot by the target. Lacking either one, people are not at all predisposed to fall down and don't. Given this predisposition, the choice of caliber and bullet selection is essentially irrelevant. People largely fall down when shot, and the apparent predisposition to do so exists with equal force among the good guys as among the bad. The causative factors are most likely psychological in origin. Thousands of books, movies and television shows have educated the general population that when shot, one is supposed to fall down.

Interesting.

Page 14
The factors governing incapacitation of the human target are many, and variable. The actual destruction caused by any small arms projectile is too small in magnitude relative to the mass and complexity of the target. If a bullet destroys about 2 ounces of tissue in its passage through the body, that represents 0.07 of one percent of the mass of a 180 pound man. Unless the tissue destroyed is located within the critical areas of the central nervous system, it is physiologically insufficient to force incapacitation upon the willing target. It may certainly prove to be lethal, but a body count is no evidence of incapacitation.

Page 16
Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "Too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of the hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.

A .44 or .45 won't shed diameter. It is easier to get heavier bullets faster and fired more accurately from the four contact points of the SBR and its longer barrel.


http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

[45-70.gov]

great  post

but  the mares  leg  has no stock