Author Topic: Need some help with a new cannon (Read 1227 times)

Matt Dixon · « **on:** September 15, 2009, 04:26:06 PM »

Okay, my dad is getting into cannons now and he is an accomplished machinist with years under his belt. so he is starting to build one and he has a few questions: 1. He would like a good picture of a 24lb navel cannon to copy, he really wants one like on "Old Iron Sides" but all I can find is pictures taken at an angle. so does anyone have prints or good pictures of a 24lb navel? 2. He wants to know where he can find prints of any cannon. We heard the Library of congress has archives of the prints which is open to the public but I have no luck finding them on line. 3. He wants to know were he can find a gun drill 1.75" diameter. So I told him that if any one knew the answers to these questions than you would be the ones to know. Thanks, Matt

RocklockI · « **Reply #1 on:** September 15, 2009, 04:44:33 PM »

a gun drill ? is he going to bore a solid piece of stock .....?

believe me i'm no expert but i'd chat with board sponsers .....? maybe the irishman as he bores holes in brass stock .

or a finishing drill or even a deep asc'ed reamer ...... also see dominick .....

m,t, just posted on a gun drill ........but it is a total handbuilt effort iirc ......

if i'm missing something .........well never mind .

Matt Dixon · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2009, 05:00:38 PM »

Yah its solid all right its just something laying around and Dominick uses steel tubing witch is easer. But thanks

GGaskill · « **Reply #3 on:** September 15, 2009, 05:14:11 PM »

There used to be a CD-ROM available from the Naval Historical Center Detachment Boston that had plans for most of the equipment on board the Constitution as of 1930 or so. I looked at their current web site and cannot find any reference to it now. I sent them an email asking about it. If it turns out they are not selling ($15) the CD-ROM any more, I will make you a copy.

leesecw · « **Reply #4 on:** September 15, 2009, 07:18:49 PM »

try antique ordinance publishers here in michigan. They have original plans from the national archives for sale. Should be an adress on the stickies

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2009, 08:00:42 PM »

Here is a link to the current AOP catalog sheet. But their stuff is mostly 19th century, basically stuff used in the Civil War or soon thereafter.

cannonmn · « **Reply #6 on:** September 15, 2009, 08:09:45 PM »

Quote

There used to be a CD-ROM available from the Naval Historical Center Detachment Boston that had plans for most of the equipment on board the Constitution as of 1930 or so.

A few years ago I got hold of part of the set somehow and had asked them some questions about the authenticity of some of the drawings in that set. I didn't get very good answers. I think what they were selling was someone's idea of what might have been onboard, as reflected in an earlier (1920's?) restoration. One of the problems I seem to recall were large gunades they had cast and put topside, when CONSTITUTION really had carronades at one time, but not gunades. That, for one, was a pretty big difference. I'm not sure those gunades were shown in the CD or not, since I don't have the CD.

I posted some questions on discussion boards about those drawings also. I don't know if my questions had anything to do with the current unavailability of the CD or not.

GGaskill · « **Reply #7 on:** September 15, 2009, 11:27:42 PM »

The gunades are included in the material on the CD. I think, at least by the time I bought the CD, that they were saying that these drawings represented the ship as it existed in the late 1920's. NHC has later said that the armament on the ship during the 20th century was always reproductions with no documented connection to specific periods or cruises.

The drawings claim to be Royal Navy patterns of 1779 and derivations. Still worth the $15 I think.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2009, 01:07:59 AM »

Might want to consider something a whisker less than 1.75 IF golfballs are going to be used for ammo; like about 1.70 or 1.72".

Rickk · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2009, 02:14:18 AM »

I have the CD... I can maybe email you the gun plans. I'll see if I can figure out how to extract them tonight

armorer77 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2009, 11:25:40 AM »

For your bore , I bought a 1.750 reamer from Enco and had it re-ground to 1.730 . Armorer77

GGaskill · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2009, 12:53:25 PM »

Here is the reply from NHC Det Boston:

Thank you for your inquiry concerning the Constitution drawings CD. We have pulled the old CD from circulation as the platform on which it was built is no longer viable with most current computer programs. We are in the process of creating a new compilation of the ship's drawings and that CD should be available in early 2010. Please consult our website again for further up-dates.

In the mean time, if there is a single drawing that you are interested in, please let me know and I may be able to send it to you electronically as a PDF file.

Thank you again for your interest.

The CD works fine with XP and predecessors; perhaps it doesn't work with Vista. If that's the case, it is in good company. If you have an appropriate platform, I can make a copy of my CD or paper prints of things that interest you.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #12 on:** September 16, 2009, 02:52:52 PM »

Armorer77, it would be instructive to the membership of this board if you would explain how you lubricate this fairly large reamer and what equipment you use. This might keep someone from injuring themselves while trying to run this op. dry! We use a water-sol misting machine and compressed air when we ream 1.167" bores while spinning the tube on a lathe and holding the reamer in a large mono-block mounted on the cross-slide.

Thanks,

Tracy and Mike

armorer77 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 16, 2009, 11:08:06 PM »

I was just saying where I got the reamer . But if you really want to know , my equipment is much more primative than yours . My lathe is a 1959 LeBlonde , I set the RPM's at 74 and with a squirt bottle of water soluble coolant I feed .200 , pull out , clean with air line and repeat . Takes a while to ream 12" but it gives a good finish . Armorer77

b. snipes · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2009, 06:30:06 AM »

Hi, a carbide spade bit using a holder will do the job. I have one of these in 1.750" with a 12" holder and I made an 18" holder. The big issue here is machine power. I can drill brass and aluminum using the tail stock, but holding this set up for steel requires a torque arm drill holder for the tail stock or a cross slide block of some type as mentioned. Mechanical tubing is great in its own way. I bought a piece 4" OD 1.75" ID and make threaded, flanged breech plugs. I do not weld them in, this allows for cleaning and inspection. The mechanical tubing has a forged bore and needs to be reemed. The larger the lathe the cheaper they are to buy it seems. This large work gets done on a 16x54 Hendey. If I had more room I would go for a 20". I have seen them around cheap. Some day I am going to figure out how to get a "large" drill press in my garage! beech

GGaskill · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:12:21 PM »

He would like a good picture of a 24lb navel cannon to copy, he really wants one like on "Old Iron Sides" ...

Has this fallen by the wayside?

Forward Observer · « **Reply #16 on:** September 24, 2009, 03:16:39 PM »

If one simply does a google search for "plans for a naval 24 pounder" the first two hits are both sites that offer plans for what they claim are copies of USS Constitution 24 pdrs. The first site is by machinist and he offers 8 sheets of detailed plans for $13

The second site offers a much simplier single 11.5 by 17 inch sheet with a set of drawings for only $3.50. I happen to have this set of plans that I bought from Dixie gunworks about 25 years ago, but Dixie longer stocks them.

Cheers

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** September 24, 2009, 04:28:19 PM »

There is a link to plans for a 24 PDR on the Blackpowder cannon internet resource list sticky at the top of the page.

http://www.jerry-howell.com/1779.html

Matt Dixon · « **Reply #18 on:** September 24, 2009, 04:36:27 PM »

Thanks Guys this will help big time its just hard finding a good pic of one.

GGaskill · « **Reply #19 on:** September 24, 2009, 04:41:14 PM »

I started with the Howell plans and there are some omissions plus it is to 1/10 scale. The NHC plans are available for the asking.

Rickk · « **Reply #20 on:** September 27, 2009, 08:25:01 AM »

Here is one picture of a Constitution 24 pounder. I have many more if you want them. Give me an email address and I can send you a whole bunch of Hi-Res pictures.

Rick

cannonmn · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2009, 11:38:24 PM »

Quote

Here is one picture of a Constitution 24 pounder.

I'm pretty sure that cannon and the others near it are reproductions. I'm not implying RickK doesn't know that, all I'd like to know is whether the folks who made them copied an original cannon or not.

The reason I ask is that CONSTITUTION has a history of doing non-authentic restorations which look pretty to 95% of the visitors but irritate anyone who wants to know what the ship really carried while she was in service. Remember the non-authentic repro gunades?

dominick · « **Reply #22 on:** September 28, 2009, 01:07:58 AM »

Quote from: cannonmn on September 27, 2009, 11:38:24 PM

Quote
Here is one picture of a Constitution 24 pounder.

I'm pretty sure that cannon and the others near it are reproductions. I'm not implying RickK doesn't know that, all I'd like to know is whether the folks who made them copied an original cannon or not.

The reason I ask is that CONSTITUTION has a history of doing non-authentic restorations which look pretty to 95% of the visitors but irritate anyone who wants to know what the ship really carried while she was in service. Remember the non-authentic repro gunades?

Like the fake Napoleons at Gettysburg.

Rickk · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2009, 03:11:50 AM »

My understanding is that the barrels are original, but the carriages are all reproductions. I can't think that they made the entire design up from scratch. They would have had the decaying originals to go by for a pattern.

GGaskill · « **Reply #24 on:** September 28, 2009, 03:04:42 PM »

I think it would be reasonable to think that the barrels presented as the Constitution's armament are reasonable repros of originals; the real question is whether that style of gun was ever emplaced on the ship.