The role of ammunition in failure to fire or failure to cycle failures.

[trotterlg]

I have a dead simple little automatic in 25 ACP that funtions perfectly every time, except when I get a short round, (artillery talk for a round with not enough powder behind it).  I don't know what you call it with a hand gun round, but it fires but does not cycle the action to fire the round after it.  Please don't tell about a .25 being useless and I deserve these failures etc, the gun works perfectly with good ammunition, it works properly and is small enough to carry ALL the time.  The other day at the range I was shooting this little guy and had two incidents using S&B ammo, first one was very light recoil, but the action cycled, second was light recoil and the action did not cycle.  Easily fixed by manually cycling the action, but a failure none the less.  I came home and wieghed some un-fired rounds, pulled some bullets and weighed the powder, but with a powder charge of 1.2gr it seems that this is not a way to sort out bad loads.  Short of reloading for this little guy is there any way you know of to assure a properly loaded round, or is there any maker that has more consistant loads that I can try.  I picked up some CCI Blazer to try but haven't got the the range yet.  Any experience with reliable ammo in this cal would be appreciated.  Larry

[rockbilly]

I have a Colt that has the same problem with some ammo, and won't feed all .25 caliber ammo.  My Seacamp feeds and fires most anything I feed it.

My question to you, does it do that with all ammo?  I would suspect that is not the case, and perhaps you may have to experiment a bit to find something that functions properly.

[trotterlg]

I agree that I will have to experment some, I was just wondering if someone had found a way to sort good rounds from bad, or if it is just grab bag for finding the right one.  When a short round is fired is is very noticable and can be delt with, but it would be nice not to have the problem to begin with.  Larry

[Graybeard]

Ya really just can't sort rounds for a shortage of powder by weight. Cases will on average vary as much or more than the weight of powder in such a tiny case so that's just not a reliable method. I've found no such really and it might not be a powder shortage at all but just a primer that wasn't fully seated or for some other reason failed to fire with enough power to properly ignite the charge or even a wee bit of powder contamination.

I think the real answer is finding a brand of ammo that has a high enough quality control to work as it should. I've no experience with S&B ammo but personally prefer to stick with Made in America ammo for self defense firearms.

[WD45]

What brand is your auto ? The reason I ask is someone else may have the same gun and have a brand that functions well in thiers. BUT Unfortunately it still may not work in yours and the only way you will find out is going to be expensive. On the bright side it's a good excuse to shoot more.  FTF  can make any gun equal to a rock whatever the calber is ..

[federali]

An under-loaded round is called a squib load. If you're using bargain basement ammo with poor quality control, you might expect problems. I would try some Winchester, Federal or Remington. With a semi auto, the problem could be in the ammo, the gun, the magazine or the shooter. It helps to use the proper nomenclature so that others might better assist you. For example, a "cycling failure" says nothing, Is it a failure to feed, failure to chamber, failure to fire, failure to extract or failure to eject?

Most .25 autos excepting the Seecamp, were designed in the day when only ball ammo was available. Attempts to improve terminal ballistics often results in stoppages. Might be a good idea to test the gun with full metal jacket or ball ammo to better identify the source of the problem.

[Savage]

Actually a "Squib" is a low powered round that leaves the projectile obstructing the barrel. An "Underpowered" round would be one that does not generate enough pressure to cycle the action. I believe the OP is referring to the later. There can be large pressure variations from one manufacturer to another. Especially some of the European stuff. I haven't shot more than a couple of boxes of .25 acp in my life, but I have found the Seller & Beloit (?) ammo in .32acp and .380 feels hotter than the domestic ammo I've tried in those calibers. I would assume the .25acp would follow that pattern. Let us know how the Blazer ammo works. I've had good luck with it in 9mm back when it was cheap.  A good high quality synthetic lubricant might solve your function problems. Good Luck!
Savage

[trotterlg]

Thanks for the replies.  The failures are clearly due to a low energy round, the pistol fires and has much less felt recoil, the action fails to operate far enough to either load another round or cock the hammer, however the empty is cleanly ejected.  Nothing is jammed and a fresh round will load and fire if the slide is cycled by hand.  I am guessing that more consistant ammo is the answer, but finding a variety to try now days is not real easy.  This is one of the famous (infamous) Raven 25's, if you look at how they are made they are just dead simple, the engineering to reduce parts count was very well done, for example, the hammer, fireing pin and ejector are the same piece, amazing how something can be made simple with some thought.  I think any of the automatics would fail in some fashon with the low energy loads that cause this one to fail, atleast nothing is stuck inside and cycling the action fixes everything up.  I am hoping the CCI will be more consistant, about the only thing I can find for it around here is the S&B and CCI.  Larry