Author Topic: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.  (Read 4249 times)

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Offline jimster

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2009, 07:16:11 AM »
Agreed TM....this HC is not good, and won't likely get good. 

About the deal where other countries don't complain as much on HC...they don't complain too much about not being able to shove a handgun down their pants and go to the store either, nor do they complain much about the high taxes. 
You tend to get used to those kinds of things when your born into it.  Someday, sorry to say, there won't be as much complaining here anymore either, most of us will be dead, and the rest will be born into it.

You are so right about what they are about to do with this HC...or try to do.  Not good.  But neither was the Stimulus or the bail outs.  Hope we don't get too used to that and keep complaining.

Jim

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2009, 08:07:16 AM »
The government does a good job with the military, space program, public works.  BUT when it comes to social programs, they screw everything up.  Welfare for people who don't need or diserve it, Social Security created a surplus, so they raided it and now it constantly needs more money.  People need and want choices, not someone telling them what to do, and what they can and can't do, etc.  Social programs either need to be ran locally or no higher that the state.  Feds should stay out of it.  They are only supposed to "regulate" commerce between states, not within a state.  Health care is and should be commerce.  We need to be allowed to buy a cheaper policy from another state.  We need tort reform to limit lawsuits against doctors and hospitals so their mal-practice insurance isn't so high.  We need to allow registered nurses to prescribe antibiotics with simple accidents and injuries, like a bad cut, or for colds and flu.  Simple things to keep down costs.  I read somewhere that 20% of all research money went to AIDS research.  This only affects about 1% of the people.  It can be quarantined, like any preventable disease.  It should have been to start with.  Any non-curable but easily spread disease should be quarantined until it runs its course.  There are also a lot of self inflicted problems, obesity, smoking, excessive drinking, drug use.  Why should my taxes pay for someones bad choices.  They should either suffer the consequences or buy their own insurance.  Families used to take care of themselves and help other family members in need, then the church, if they were a member, helped, then the local community.  Now everyone wants a handout from Uncle Sam.  Even big business and banks, Enough is enough. 

Online Casull

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2009, 09:48:06 AM »
Quote
True, but do you know that MOST hydroelectric energy in this country is produced by river systems that are managed by the GOVERNMENT!!!  So, your tax dollars are paying private utilities to make money from YOU!!. 


Are there any private hydroelectric utilities?  I don't know.  But, your response is meaningless, since it is referring only to hydroelectric.  Which was my point from the beginning.  The only reason those rates from your public utility are low is because the government (us, we, the people) paid for the infastructure.  How can you possibly compare that to a coal or nuclear plant that was paid for with private dollars?  Now, amortize those millions upon millions of tax dollars spent to build the dam, add them to your monthly utility bill, and THEN tell me about your cheap public utility rates.   ::)
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2009, 09:53:01 AM »
Cassul I am sure he like many others thinks the money came from the government and does not understand the concept of how the government got that money.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2009, 09:58:31 AM »
I'm pretty sure Wareagleguy is in Bama or at least must have once been to be  war chicken fan.  ;D

While it is true Alabama Power as well as others owned by The Southern Company produce a good deal of power via hydroelectric dams by no means does ALL their electricity come that way. They use coal and perhaps even nuclear power as well.

They are NOT government by any stretch but a publicly traded corporation. You can own shares of their stock if ya want to.

They sure aren't as cheap as they used to be. My last power bill was over $300 for the first time in my life even tho I had nothing running that wasn't or hadn't been for a long time around here. Still the bill was fully $75 or more over the previous high one.


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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2009, 10:47:36 AM »
Alabama Power's breakdown is approximately the following: 25% nuclear, 45% coal, 10% hydroelectric, 20% natural gas.  They have a 2 nuclear power plants near Dothan, hydro is in the center of the state.  Dams were built by the Army Corp of Engineers in the 1920's and 30's for flood control primary, with electric production secondary.  Like I said, sometimes the government can "build things" well, and run a military well, but social programs should be left to the states, individuals, churches, and charities.  Once people are on the government dole, it is hard to wean them off, and they become lazy and inefficient.  Private companies always produce more, better, than the government.  And private companies inovate and invent things.  Look where Lenin and Stalin's Russia ended, bankrupt and reorganized.  They had to allow some capitalism for efficiency.  Same with China.  They opened the doors to capitalism so they could feed and produce for their masses.   

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2009, 10:58:34 AM »
Graybeard, thanks to Obama's "Cap and Trade" bill, your power bill will probably go up 25-40% in the next few years.  Don't know how it is going to affect natural gas....since it is a dirty carbon based fuel too.  Hope we can survive the next few years.  Our country is falling apart before our eyes and we can't seem to do anything about it right now except tea parties and community organizing conservative voters.   

Offline DDZ

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2009, 11:56:01 AM »
I get tired of hearing the BS that government can’t do a better job when I know better.


The difference between the Government and the private sector is that there is no incentive to make a profit from something the government does. Or there is no incentive to spend money wisely or cost effective.   The fact is that profit motive and competition keep business’s lean, efficient, innovative, and costumer friendly. Its called capitalism, and its what has made this country an economical power for many years.  Government run programs or government run anything has none of this. A good business is run by businessmen, Government run programs are run by politician’s, whose only incentive is to get reelected.
        Its easy to do something when you have an endless supply of tax dollars at hand. Its another thing to do it efficiently when there is no incentive to do so.
This government you speek of is the same government that was going to rid this country of poor people. All they have acomplished is creating a new breed of people that are dependant on the people that go to work every day.

Government can't do anything better than the private sector. I do know better.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Questor

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2009, 12:42:53 PM »
If Canadian health care is so good, how come all of them die eventually?
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2009, 01:05:03 PM »

My health care is better and cost less for 30 years now. So I could care less about Canada or anyone else’s issues in this country for that matter. The over whelming majority of Americans are on a private policy provided by their employer like me. Nearly 90% of us like our policy and do not want to change it so I can pay more and get less quality like in Canada.

This so called fight for universal health care is a farce. The Obama plan will cost more and provide less. So if we have an alleged  gap as compared to Canada now, then the gap will grow under the Obama plan. It’s a farce and nothing about health care. It’s all about control of people and socialization.
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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2009, 01:48:32 PM »
DDZ,
The bottom line in profit is the problem.  Companies will only do anything that helps the bottom line.  The government should be the one to fill the gap.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline billy_56081

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2009, 02:24:23 PM »
"Profit is the problem"


Spoken like a true socialist comrade.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Online Casull

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2009, 02:44:37 PM »
Quote
"Profit is the problem"


Spoken like a true socialist comrade.


Bingo!
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Offline jimster

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2009, 02:57:05 PM »
The government should be the one to fill the gap.

Now that does not make any sense at all.  Everyone has watched trillions of our dollars funneled off to thousands of questionable places for years, and more so recently.  Why in the world would we trust government to get it's hands on anything,  given their past and current track record?  That's just plain not logical to say government, in it's current form, or any form,  should be in control of much of anything.  There are reasons for that.  And if legislation that just passed had billions of dollars of our money funnled away to bogus places (and it did), why let them pass more of the same?  Don't make sense to me at all.
Al Capone ran all of Chicago and half the police force with a 300K payroll in the late 20's...or somewhere in there.  Congress gets around 2.3 trillion of our tax dollars per year, we all know money breeds corruption at all levels.  Imagaine where all that money has been going and what they control with that.  The problems we have today is because of government intervention over the years past.  Not from lack of it.  
Heck, the government are the only ones who can even create an economic problem in my view, the people left alone would be just fine.  Just printing the money we already printed was stupid, we already had lot's of money...in our paychecks, being taken away from us.  The money is there, they just don't want us to spend it.  We would not willing give billions to ACORN. GM, or the funding for the study of pig oder.  Who would?  
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
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Anyone that thinks government needs a large role had better stop and think about the outcome of that.  So far, it has not been good.  


Offline 351 power

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2009, 03:26:09 PM »
the savings&loans problems were based on free market abuses by big business. car manufacturers are an example of inefficenies in big business. stock markets are big business taking money from fools. and medical insurance is huge business that doesn't want anyone to look at options that will interfer with their profit margin. problem with the medical system, if you are a pro football player, you get an x-ray before the game is done. but if you are a 16 yr old mother to be, you can't get an ultrasound at all, cept if you got rich parents. reason the govt has to legislate health care is cause the social conscience of the country is of not caring at all
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2009, 03:40:40 PM »
DDZ,
The bottom line in profit is the problem.  Companies will only do anything that helps the bottom line.  The government should be the one to fill the gap.

Oh yes, profit is evil. Afterall, that's how companies pay employees & all of that silly crap.  ???

"The gov. should be the one to fill the gap" With what/ Oh yea, I forgot, they have a money factory.  ::)
Sadly they really do.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline DDZ

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2009, 03:57:14 PM »
DDZ,
The bottom line in profit is the problem.  Companies will only do anything that helps the bottom line.  The government should be the one to fill the gap.

If it wasn't for the freedom to make a profit in this country we would be less than a third world country. Profit is what spurs innovation. Its what brings gas to gas stations, its what brings food to grocery stores, Its what provides every service that you have ever paid for. Its a wonder that any bussiness's can survive today, with all the government regulations and taxes that are thrown at them.
 If the free market is left alone by government, our economy would never need any gaps filled. As I said before, capitalism is what made our economy the greatest ever, and it will continue to be great unless government destroys it like they are trying to do.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline billy_56081

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2009, 04:02:53 PM »
We really are seeing who are "comrades" are in this thread. As the T shirt says "Why so socialist?"
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline jimster

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2009, 04:21:38 PM »
the savings&loans problems were based on free market abuses by big business. car manufacturers are an example of inefficenies in big business. stock markets are big business taking money from fools. and medical insurance is huge business that doesn't want anyone to look at options that will interfer with their profit margin. problem with the medical system, if you are a pro football player, you get an x-ray before the game is done. but if you are a 16 yr old mother to be, you can't get an ultrasound at all, cept if you got rich parents. reason the govt has to legislate health care is cause the social conscience of the country is of not caring at all

Well, let's look at one at time here.
Savings and loan problems were caused by people borrowing money that could not pay them back. So let the bank fail.  There were tons of banks that did not do this, they are still around.  They did not listen to government officials telling them to lend the money anyway.  Your world would not have ended if we would not have bailed them out, they lied to you, and government bailed them out, then admited...whoops...kind of a mistake. Guess we did not know where the bail out money was going...(didn't read our own legislation)  Next time we will do better. Sure.  Stimulus package was their "next thing"...did ya read that?  I did.  

Car business is inefficient.  So they go banakrupt. So what?  You would not have died should a private car company go down in smoke.  No big deal...we bailed them out, they went bankrupt anyway, had to do the same thing regardless but got billions of our dollars first...whoops.  Bad legislation again.  Then they told us they were not sure where that money went. Big surprise there.  I don't work there...but it seems to me a lot of votes are now secured for any party that wishes to keep holding them up with my money.  Somehow I remember our fore fathers warning us about government money buting votes.  Do you know what that means?  If your working for GM now, or the Union...you might not think it's right to have tax payer money holding just your company up, but if the opposite party wants to stop all that...who will you vote for if it feeds your family?  They bought votes...lots of them.  You'll be interesed to know that buried in the HC package is lauguage that can funnel tax money to the Unions.  Sound like health care to you?  But then, there are lots of things buried in their legislation as always.  Read it.

Stock markets taking money from fools speaks for itself...you nailed it without even trying.  You like to gamble...fine..good luck.  Government is not there to legislate fools into being smarter.  That is not their job.  Making money in stocks is not a constitutional right I'm afraid.  

Medcial insurance...government made laws that keep us from shopping for it across state lines...gosh...government already got involved huh?  They made it more expensive with stupid legislation.  Reverse that...cost zero...reverse some tort laws while they are at it that they messed up...cost zero.  Then get out of the way and stop "fixing things for us"....please.

Football players and their health care...be a football player...you'll make millions and can have great health care.  For that matter you think a CEO makes too much money, be one.  It does take some dedication that I myself am not willing to do though...I like being home and forgeting about work myself.  Your choice to be whatever you want. I don't mind reforming some things...funneling more money around does not seem like a good idea to me.  Making it a law that you have to have it does not sound right to me. Leveling fines against those who don't buy it is not right.    

Government fixing the social conscience of the people....your kidding right?  We are going to legislate morality and social conscience, that should be about 1000 pages I reckon.  Oh...it is...they are trying this.  Forgot.  The ironic part is...our government has no the conscience at all....as you can plainy see from the legislation they have passed already.  Barney Frank and Dodd and Polosi...will fix this for us?  They have already crashed us with their earlier antics have they not?  Where is their social conscience?  In their legislation somewhere?  You can't legislate morality or conscience.  Impossible.  If that was true, you would not have a problem in the world right now because most of the legisaltion and regulations already passed over the years...were exactly for those reasons.  Or so they told us.


Jim



Offline DDZ

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2009, 04:28:48 PM »
the savings&loans problems were based on free market abuses by big business. car manufacturers are an example of inefficenies in big business. stock markets are big business taking money from fools. and medical insurance is huge business that doesn't want anyone to look at options that will interfer with their profit margin. problem with the medical system, if you are a pro football player, you get an x-ray before the game is done. but if you are a 16 yr old mother to be, you can't get an ultrasound at all, cept if you got rich parents. reason the govt has to legislate health care is cause the social conscience of the country is of not caring at all

No, the savings and loan companies failed because of government intervention. The UAW union is an example of an inefficency in big business. The stock market has made a lot of people rich. The medical insurance companies are like they are because government intervention dosn't allow compitition.
What is a 16 year old doing having a baby anyway? She should still be in school getting indoctrinated in one of the government run instutitions.  Is this 16 year old mother to be, married with a working husband? Oh, I forgot, in todays society no one has to have personal responsibility. Just blame your problems on someone or something else.
No, the majority of the people in this country care. People in this country give more money to charities and other countries, than all other countries combined.(except democrats) If government didn't tax us so much, there would be a lot more giving. And no, government dosn't need to legislate healthcare. Its because of their legislation that got healthcare to where its at.  
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #80 on: September 24, 2009, 10:21:47 AM »
Hey wareagleguy the government run power company's you are so proud of.

 The Tennessee Valley Authority chief said Wednesday that nearly $3 billion in projected cleanup costs and resulting operational changes from a major coal ash spill will show up in customer bills

 The government doing it's usual bang up job! ;D
                         Beerbelly

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2009, 10:54:28 AM »
Privately run utilities are regulated because they have no competition.  The price they charge their customers is regulated.  I know I also work for one.  We can make between 9-13% profit above operating costs.  If we make below 9 we get a rate increase, if we make above 13 we have to give a rate cut.  This is in Alabama, and don't know about other states, but many states use this formula.  The profit is poured back into new capital expenses, such as mains, vehicle replacements, etc.  The operating costs include, rents, gasoline, payroll, and the cost of operating the business, and does not include capital expenses which are purchased from the profits.  The profits also go to pay dividends to shareholders and bonuses if there is enough profit.  Car companies have competition.  Best managed companies stay in business, poor companies go out of business such as Hudson, Studebaker, etc.

Offline 351 power

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #82 on: September 24, 2009, 12:06:01 PM »
hey, i know little about your private market economy but you guys know nothing about my canadian health care. i posted to make that point. mainly to say that until you get some real information and consider all the variables all you have is opinion based on propaganda. health care change may be good for the majority of people. but you are too divided to try to see other people's perspectives. that's just how it seems from my side of the fence
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2009, 12:13:23 PM »
hey, i know little about your private market economy but you guys know nothing about my canadian health care. i posted to make that point. mainly to say that until you get some real information and consider all the variables all you have is opinion based on propaganda. health care change may be good for the majority of people. but you are too divided to try to see other people's perspectives. that's just how it seems from my side of the fence

Most of us don't need to know about the Canadian system. The over whelming majority of Americans have a health care policy and don't want to change out of it so the government can tell us what to do. There are only about 23million not on a policy long term here and the rest (280 million)are just fine. Obama care is about the 23 million. The only way he can pay for their health care is to tax the 280 million of us and reduce our quality of care. I feel no need to pay more to get less so someone can get it for free.
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Online Casull

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #84 on: September 24, 2009, 12:14:08 PM »
Quote
hey, i know little about your private market economy


Quote
mainly to say that until you get some real information and consider all the variables all you have is opinion based on propaganda

Yet you had the audacity to say this earlier:

Quote
the savings&loans problems were based on free market abuses by big business. car manufacturers are an example of inefficenies in big business. stock markets are big business taking money from fools. and medical insurance is huge business that doesn't want anyone to look at options that will interfer with their profit margin. problem with the medical system, if you are a pro football player, you get an x-ray before the game is done. but if you are a 16 yr old mother to be, you can't get an ultrasound at all, cept if you got rich parents. reason the govt has to legislate health care is cause the social conscience of the country is of not caring at all
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline billy_56081

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #85 on: September 24, 2009, 12:14:35 PM »
351 I do see Canadians coming to MN paying cash for health care they cannot receive in Canada in a timley manner.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #86 on: September 24, 2009, 12:21:28 PM »
 I knew a bunch of folks that work for Apple Computer in Markham Canada. They tell me the Canadian system stinks. Some of them are Americans working for Apple in Canada so they can compare the 2 systems. We had Canadians working here for Apple in California. They said the health care they get here is much better.

Look at this video. The only people who said their health care sucks are the Canadians.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EPd2i4Jshs
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Offline mechanic

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #87 on: September 24, 2009, 01:25:59 PM »
It truly does not matter if it's better or worse as far as the government is concerned....they have no constitutional authority to be involved with it.  They are mandated three jobs only and car companies, finance companies and health care ain't on the list.  If they can bypass the law on one thing (and they already have on many), they can do what they please.  We Americans are supposed to be self determinate...stand or fall on our own. 

I will and do willingly help unfortunate ones, but of that 23 million, or 40 million or what ever the number is this hour, probably hardly any of them are unfortunate beyond what they want to be.
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Offline DDZ

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #88 on: September 24, 2009, 02:02:35 PM »
hey, i know little about your private market economy but you guys know nothing about my canadian health care. i posted to make that point. mainly to say that until you get some real information and consider all the variables all you have is opinion based on propaganda. health care change may be good for the majority of people. but you are too divided to try to see other people's perspectives. that's just how it seems from my side of the fence

The fact is that, if you go into a hospital here in the US with a life threatening ailment, you are more apt to come out alive than anywhere else in the world.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline 351 power

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Re: canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S.
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2009, 02:29:30 PM »
number of uninsured i hear ranges from 90 to 120 million. why is it audacious to say something thats opinion from my perspective but not yours. no problem to find people, actual doctors practicing here, who like our system better. and people who can't afford your system, of course. but since they are the marginalized working poor, cronically ill, or unfortunates, their opinions don't matter. life threatening ailments are taken care of as long as you have insurance. ambulances have to keep searching for hospitals that will take in uninsured clients/patients. #1 question for tourists in the us who end up in hospitals is are you insured, not where do you hurt. see how easy it is to listen to a few complaints and form your narrow opinions? read the facts and investigate before you decide-that's all i suggest
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