Rechambering a H&R 22 Hornet to 218 Bee and 22 Rem Jet, can it be done?

[briannmilewis]

Rechambering an H&R usually involves making a new chamber that is bigger than the current chamber in all dimensions.

The 22 Hornet has a max case length of 1.403" and max overall length of 1.850".

I want to do a simple 22 Hornet rechamber to 218 Bee that has a max case length of 1.345" , which is .048" less than the Hornet, and max overall length of 1.680", which is 0.170" shorter than the Hornet.

I want to do a simple 22 Hornet rechamber to 22 Remington Jet that has a max case length of 1.288", which is .105" less than the Hornet, and max overall length of 1.695", which is 0.155" shorter than the Hornet.

Is the 218 Bee and 22 Rem Jet "jump to the lans" anything to worry about?

Will it help to use heavy bullets for caliber in the Bee and Jet, and seat those bullets at max OAL to minimize the jump further?

[gunnut69]

The 'jump to the lands' is called freebore. It is used pretty extendsively in the Weatherby line of cartridges. Still I don't know how it would work out in your case. Normally the freebore is left at groove diameter and it still provides guidance for the bullet in its jump to the rifling. In your case there would be a length of neck diameter chamber in front of the chamber. I believe this would do really bad things to the bullet and produce poor accuracy. If more power is wanted the perhaps a rimmed 222. It would be a handload only proposition but cases used to be available as the round is fairly popular in europe and standard 222 dies work fine. A proper shell holder would be needed but that's a small cost. Then there are wildcats.. There are seveal based on the 357 magnum and maximum but I would consider a round based on the 32 mag or 327 for a base. The resulting wildcat should be long enough to clean up the existing chamber and make considerably more power..

[stimpylu32]

Brian

Both my 218 Bee as well as my 22 Rem Jet were done with 22 Mag barrels , neither are high pressure rounds so the milder steel of the mag barrels does not cause a problem .

It also made for a very clean chamber with no freebore to deal with , the newer 22 LR barrels are also .224 so even those will work for this project , I just got new Sportsters and am saving the actions for a cheap 17 HMR or 17M2 barrel to come along .

You can even sell the extra stock sets and re-coup some of your money . 

stimpy

[trotterlg]

It is even more than freebore, it is cut to the diameter of the cratridge neck which is a lot larger than the bullet.  The bullet will need to fly through some empty space from the case mouth to the throat in the barrel, cannot imagine that would be a good thing.  Like stimpylu32 says, use a .22rf barrel.  Larry

[briannmilewis]

I was wondering if the conversation would end up with 22 WMR or 22 LR barrels.

I know I can get a Sportster for $135, so I think you have settled it for me.

I was worried about the barrels being able to take the Bee and Jet pressures.

That's why us newbees ask for a lot of help from you experts, someone has always been around the block once on the questions I can pose.

Thanks gang.

[trotterlg]

I've chamber a bunch of H&R 17 HMR barrels to 17 Fireball, and they work fine.  I have chambered several H&R RF barrels to Hornet and they work out great.  Larry

[briannmilewis]

It is even more than freebore, it is cut to the diameter of the cartridge neck which is a lot larger than the bullet.  The bullet will need to fly through some empty space from the case mouth to the throat in the barrel, cannot imagine that would be a good thing.  Like stimpylu32 says, use a .22rf barrel.  Larry

Why would the accuracy be significantly affected with a relatively small amount of freebore, when those that ream a 357 Mag to Max, have a lot larger freebore to deal with, up to 0.450", and they do not seriously impact their accuracy when shooting 38 SP and 357 Mags? Wouldn't a Sportster have the same problem shooting 22S and 22L?

Almost ready to capitulate and use RF barrels, but not quite!

[trotterlg]

A 22 Rimfire is a "healed" round, the bullet it the same diameter as the case, so the bullet is supported no matter how long the throat is.  Modern ammo has a bullet that is smaller than the brass, so if the neck is cut for long brass the bullet has nothing touching it until it gets to the throat, that is where the step is in the chamber to accomadate the neck of the cartridge.  There is a big difference in a long throat and a neck that is cut long in a chamber.  Larry

[briannmilewis]

Larry - Got it. I live and learn.

Thanks, 22RF barrels it will be.

[fredster22]

  I have a bbl that was rechambered from 22 hornet to 221 fireball with no problems except for a little tinkering with changing from
rimmed to rimless ejection which worked out and is easy to load for and very accurate.

[briannmilewis]

  I have a bbl that was rechambered from 22 hornet to 221 fireball with no problems except for a little tinkering with changing from
rimmed to rimless ejection which worked out and is easy to load for and very accurate.

Fredster22: Yep, the 221 Fireball was one of the first I inquired about and nobody said it could not be done with a Hornet barrel. But my reason for asking about the Bee and Jet is that I want rimmed, old cartridge designs, for the purpose of just having the old cartridges. The Fireball is on my "performance" rechamber list for sure. Every confirmation of it being a great rechamber is useful, and just backs up how wise it is to make that rechamber.

Do you make your own Fireball brass from 223 cases?

[fredster22]

  Brian,
         The cases are available yet from Midway, I bought several hundred at the time they were on sale, they still may be. Dies and
such are readily available. Reamers & headspace gauges from 4D & ejector part(223) from Brownells. Not a Hard conversion.  Fred

[briannmilewis]

  Brian,
         The cases are available yet from Midway, I bought several hundred at the time they were on sale, they still may be. Dies and
such are readily available. Reamers & headspace gauges from 4D & ejector part(223) from Brownells. Not a Hard conversion.  Fred

Fred: Midway has Bee cases for $36/100 and Grafs has Jet cases from $27 to $35.

If I make that kind of investment in brass, what is the case life like? Especially if you paid close attention to annealing and used RCBS X-Dies, and used low pressure loads?

[gunnut69]

The Bee is a long lived case if proper handloading procedures are followed. As a rimmed case it can have the same problems the belted mags do, case seperations.. The dies need to be set to allow the case to headspace on the shoulder, not the rim. The 22 K-Hornet was deve3loped mainly to give this very tapered case a prominent shoulder to delp with the same problems.. I use the Hornet a lot and partial sizing even with the standard Hornet helps case life a lot. The Bee has much thicker brass and with good handloads case lide is quite long. My Bee is a Winchester M43 and I love the rifle and the round..

[Antietamgw]

My current Bee is on a Martini action with a rimfire barrel. Due to the 1-16" twist, it likes the shorter bullets and is used mostly with mild cast loads and WW brass that probably been loaded at least 20-25 times, neck sized. I quit counting the number of loadings on them a few years ago and suspect eventually split necks will be the only reason to cull them. I believe I've annealed them twice.  My full power cases have been loaded 3 times or so, neck sized as well. My Redding FL die seems to match this chamber pretty well with minimal excess sizing of the body on fireformed brass. I have a neck size die as well or can back off the FL die for partial neck sizing. A Mashburn Bee I had on a Bullberry TC carbine barrel gave real good case life as well. I prefer the Bee case over the Hornet and sold my T/C Hornet barrels a few years back as they were such touchy little princesses. Other guys have Hornets that seem to shoot most anything well.

[gunnut69]

I've found the Hornet more than a bit touchy, it's just plain difficult! The 222 Rem seems to spit nearly any sane load into little groups but Hornets can be almost diabolical.. I've had many over the years and most eventually were coxed into shoting something at least passably well. They included a M54 Winchester and a Kimber. The Kimber showed promise but the bedding went bad and groups became patterns. Then I bought a CZ527FS.. The first shots fired on a cold miserable day at the range and were FACTORY Remington fodder went under 1/2".. Handloads have been easy with almost any rasonable concoction shooting under and inch or slightly more.. Prior to that my best groups and easiest rifle to load for in a Hornet was  an H&R.. A break action single it was amazing.. the chamber was a bit rough but after a little burnishing and some polishing the brass came out slick and the groups were always just fine.. Reloading can be a daunting thing. My worst experience was with a DanWesson 44. With a 6x scope on board it would shoot 2" groups with all 6 chambers at 100 from the bench with 300 XTP's. Trying to build a cast bullet load went horribly wrong.. Groups at 25 yards would barly stay on a slow fire pistol target.. I remembered reading one of the gun mags an article that had the writer having the same problem and solving the problem by swapping primers. I didn't see the need for anything but stabdard force CCI primers with the fast burning powders I was using but the article concluded the ignition in the large case was erratic with then and swapping to a hotter primer flash solved their problem. I tried the magnum CCI's and groups went down to minute of squirrel head.. Go figure!

[bcp]

But my reason for asking about the Bee and Jet is that I want rimmed, old cartridge designs, for the purpose of just having the old cartridges.

219 Zipper is a rimmed, old cartridge design that would clean out the Hornet chamber.

Bruce