The Wildcat name has been decided upon - 223 Short! Thanks. Done.

[briannmilewis]

223 Wasp? Then 204 Wasp, 257 Wasp.......
It is just a little hotter than the Hornet.   

Are you referring to the WASP family that owes its parent case heritage to the 30-30, via the Zipper, or are you talking about the Bulgarian WASP?

My question is are you trying to make it short so it will fit in a certain action.
And if so why?  most 22 Mag actions are not strong enough for what you want to do and anything that will fit a Hornet will fit a 221.
What will it do that 221 loaded slower will not be able to do?

I don't have any agenda for what action it may fit. Rechambering an H&R 22WMR or 22LR barrel is the bottom of what I see being done with it. Cheap, cheap, cheap. I just consider a cartridge designed to do its best work compared to the same work a downloaded Fireball does is a smarter solution. I can download any exisitng cartridge to do the same job as a lesser cartridge, but I do not believe that is why you want a particular caliber. You don't want a Fireball because you want Hornet perfomance. You don't want a Hornet because you want 22WMR peroformance. I want a modern cartridge that will do the job in between the Hornet and the Fireball when it is loaded normally. Plus cheap parent case, plus little or no investment in additional reloading hardware if you already reload the parent.

Wid cating has nothing to do with making money, Hell most of the time it doesn't fill a nitch! WE DO WILDCATS BECOUSE WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup iffen yer doing it for some other reason chances are ya just really don't understand what's out there already.

Again, the three reasons are what I said above.

Obviously I have stepped out of the usual frame of reference about why one wants to build a wildcat. Unless I am severely uninformed about wildcats, the usual reason other than "because we can" are usually better performance, meaning faster, more energy. More accuracy etc.

My wildcat improved performance is not to exceed the speed or power or report of the next cartridge above it, the 221 Fireball, but sit between the 22 Hornet and the Fireball with 1cc of case capacity, and cheap home made cartridges etc., etc, etc.

Remember...cheap, cheap, cheap is a very big part of the reason.

the .223 Lewis Lite is the best name for the round i have heard so far.

Thanks for your vote.

[mcwoodduck]

OK, did not know about the whole Wasp family of things.  Sorry.
I was looking at making case out of necking a .25 ACP to 22 so it would fit in a Buck mark and quailfy for a centerfire bowling pin gun when I was shooting pins.  The 22 is more than enough to knock the pins off the back of the table and the 25 was the smallest caliber able to be used but none of the guns were large enough to be accurate.  I ended up spending the $ on 9mm ammo and getting really good with it to be able to make it do what the wildcat round would be able to do and not have all the head aches.
I just see a lot of work to get a little and if you have a bolt action you now need a new mag configuration that moves the case forward.
If it is going to basicly do what a 22 Hornet or 22 Hornet AI will do at three times the cost, I now want to change my name suggestion.
 223 Teddy Kennedy - Does a lot less than it's parent at 3X the cost and a lot of Liquid Lubrication is needed for it to make sense.

[briannmilewis]

  ...Brilliant name, I think we can use it as a working title...Now your little wildcat project sounded like a lot of good challenges to overcome, forget about the $.

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to spend as little as possible and my goal for performance is better than the Hornet or K, and less than the Fireball, right smack in the middle like the Bee and more so the Jet.

I wonder what is it about doing a wildcats? I am barely wet behind the ears as far as my reloading experience, wildcats are just seductive I guess. Is it just because we can, or are we easily bored, or we have too much time on our hands, or do we just think we can do it better than anyone else has? It'll go one as long a there are ammunition and guns to be had.

[mcwoodduck]

I know i always thought a brass 12ga shell necked to .577 and shooting the Black powder Mini balls would be a great Bear gun out of a Pump shot gun.  But it does not offer much over a 12 ga slug plus with the pointy end you have to worry about a chain fire with the rounds in the tube mag.

[briannmilewis]

I had high aspirations about finding a "Meaningful" name, however, 223 Stryker lasted about 5 days.

I made the decision to call it simply, the 223 Short. It says it all, it's simple.

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

[bill439]

Has anything been called a .217 something or other yet?  now that sounds catchey!  and will fill what-ever gap there is if any.  Bill439

[beadlescomb]

how bout a 223 SN shag nasty

or 243 SB skitn back

hah just a though

[briannmilewis]

how bout a 223 SN shag nasty

or 243 SB skitn back

hah just a though

[Steve P]

A guy I shoot with once a year has a couple of those.  One in .224 and one in .243.  He calls the .243 one Wee something.  Both of his are on XP100 actions.  Recoil is nil, but he knocks over steel targets with it.  Bullet is longer than the case.

Steve

[briannmilewis]

A guy I shoot with once a year has a couple of those.  One in .224 and one in .243.  He calls the .243 one Wee something.  Both of his are on XP100 actions.  Recoil is nil, but he knocks over steel targets with it.  Bullet is longer than the case.

Steve

Steve: That is great to know. I am going to take 3 H&R Hornets and modify for the 223 Short, 221 Fireball and the 222 Rem. The 221 and 222 are simple rechambers, the 223 Short will require a 22WMR barrel as a donor because the 1.125 case is too short for a Hornet rechamber. That way my two sons and I can go to the range or go afield and have 3 different power levels available for whatever we meet and for basically any range.

[Bull45cal]

.223 Short  This is great. I have been researching this design for a couple weeks.  I was working on my own drawing, since I couldn't find where this wildcat had already been done.  Today, I did another search and found your project.  I am highly interested in your .223 Short, and I am wondering where you are in the process?  I was looking at all the same criteria that you have been, and coming up with the same results.  You, were just ahead of me.  I am planning on using mine for 200-300 yard F-class practice.  I want to use heavy bullets at lower velocities, and at low cost.  Please let me know where you're at in the development.

Thanks,
Shane

[briannmilewis]

Shane: Thanks for following up. We have an updated thread with info and pics here in Wildcats on the first or second page, the title is weird...

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,200121.0.html

We have just produced the first dummy rounds, we know we can form cases in one single press stroke from well lubed 221 or 223 cases... ...that was a key design goal, least cost for parent brass. Jed has machined down and opened up a 221 FB FL Die, and also machined down the 221 FB bullet seater. I supplied the dies and 20 221 FB cases, and Jed provided the machining and 223 cases. I need to find a a 221 Neck sizer die and send it to Jed. (This is as low budget as we can make it...) I have been unemployed for a year and had some surprise cash that kicked it off last month...

We have settled on Cartridge OAL of 1.625" (Changed from 1.555" on 4-17-2010). The neck thickens up when the forming is done, but as we can control our own design, and in an effort to make this as easy as possible for everyone, we are going with the neck OD of about .260 (see details in the other thread) and we will not factory crimp as the hold on the bullets will be just fine. I do not want anyone to have to turn necks...

Larry T will be making the first proto reamer for us that will cut a couple of chambers, we expect to ream a 22WMR Handi barrel and fit it to an SB2 receiver as the first prototype. The alternative is to get a Stevens 200 in 223 and change out the barrel and ream a new blank.

Shane has stepped up with his Savage, invested in a barrel that is being sent to Larry. I was thinking 225 yard coyote round, well Shane wants a cheap practice round for 200-300 yard targets, and had in mind what we are developing. See the other link for the latest info, I add to it after every bit of progress no matter how small. But most of all, we appreciate your interest in our low budget wildcat project.