Author Topic: Jesus a socialist? (Read 754 times)

guzzijohn · « **on:** September 21, 2009, 09:57:38 AM »

Please keep this in the context that I am not putting anyone down, just curious. Not surprisingly there are have been many posts putting down anything that even remotely smells of socialism and many of the same posters have at one time or the other referred to themselves as Christians. How do you then interpret the teachings of Jesus which have very strong socialistic foundations?
GuzziJohn

Cabin4 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2009, 10:25:36 AM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on September 21, 2009, 09:57:38 AM

Please keep this in the context that I am not putting anyone down, just curious. Not surprisingly there are have been many posts putting down anything that even remotely smells of socialism and many of the same posters have at one time or the other referred to themselves as Christians. How do you then interpret the teachings of Jesus which have very strong socialistic foundations?
GuzziJohn

I don't beleive Jesus ever advocated for government to take on this role. I'll let those more educated on His teaching to better answer this but my understanding is He felt it was the role of individuals and church, not the Roman Empire.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2009, 10:26:47 AM »

Jesus's teachings were for individual responsibility, not socialist. The first Christians shared everything in Jerusalem and almost starved. That is why Paul later took up collections from the Christians in Greece and Asia Minor to give to the Jerusalem Christians. If you read Proverbs, it advocates hard work and scorns laziness. Jesus even said the poor will always be with you. You can have a giving heart and be rich, and have a coveting or greedy heart and be poor. Jesus taught it was what was in your heart. The Bible says you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2009, 10:45:58 AM »

I really don't think they do have socialistic foundations in the modern political sense of socialism. The reason is that the new testament uses the old testament as its foundation. This is more totalitarian than socialist because the rule of kings is the sociological framework for so much of the old testament. For the most part, there are two classes, the rulers and the ruled. There really is not much that I can recall about redistribution of wealth by taking from one class of people and giving to another class, except in conquest.

The old testament is the story of the civilization of man and it is mostly about how we have learned to treat each other through the millenia. The tradition of generosity to people less fortunate than ourselves goes back to the oldest books, representing relative brutality, where people were stoned to death for working on the sabbath, or for having homosexual relations.

The main lesson from the story of Jesus is that God has been ultimately generous in providing a son that died for our sins, yet ever reminding us that we are sinners and that our destiny must be to improve ourselves. This seems to me to be an extension of the old testament in that it follows the pattern of how man improves himself over time. Generosity is still elective, or by way of miracles. Conquest is still the main way money passes from one group of people to another throughout the new testament.

DDZ · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2009, 10:50:26 AM »

Socialism means economic control of the people by government. With socialism the state is all-powerful. Such an all-powerful state views itself, and not God as the ultimate authority. Socialism leads to abolishment of the family, marriage, and religion as well as private property. Under a socialist system the state determines what is right and wrong — without any loyalties to God, family, or country.
If you want to see socialism in the raw, go live in Cuba or North Korea. What goes on in these countries, is not what Jesus wants.
Before the government nanny state took over in this country. People, churches, and communities used to take care of the people that were truely in need. Socialism in government is not about caring for needy people, its about power and control.

Questor · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2009, 12:09:21 PM »

A relevant question for this thread is: why might socialism and the teachings of the new testament be seen as similar? They don't seem similar to me, but I'm interested in alternative views.

I'm stumped. I just can't think if an example in the bible where the concept of private property was violated for the benefit of others. (Conquest excepted.)

ironglow · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2009, 12:36:09 PM »

Just look at them, one-by-one. The severe Socialist countries..uba, China, Venezuela, North Korea, Pol Pot's Cambodia and almost any other radical leftist regime you can think of, consider Christians as "the enemy". Christians do not seem to "need" a "god-like" leader.
...And it isn't lost with the radical leftists in this country.

Jesus never taught socialism..if you believe so..give us ...book, line and verse..

pastorp · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:29:46 PM »

Jesus was not, nor did he teach socialism.

He taught a "thearchy" as the corect form of government.

Regards,

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:50:27 PM »

What is thearchy?

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:55:35 PM »

jesus taught love an care for each other ...he taught that the father would in the end
be the only one able to rule ... man kind is too subject to unrightousness...
so for now our form of govt at least allows freedom of belief an thought as well as speech etc...
marx had ideas that represented a perfect society of the people,, meeting all the peoples needs...
just one problem ...everytime its tried ,,the ambition and selfisness of those who start the movement
again prove that man in his natural state,, is just too corruptable to make it work or to sustain it...
always will be ,,while we are in this dispensation... this my opinion..... slim

pastorp · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:57:27 PM »

Theocracy, govenorment in which God is recognized as the supreme civil ruler. sorry for the typo.

regards,

Cabin4 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2009, 02:27:48 PM »

Quote from: Questor on September 21, 2009, 01:50:27 PM

What is thearchy?

A typographical error.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2009, 02:51:23 PM »

In addition to what has been previously said, two very important aspects are brought about in the Bible. We are told to "be prosperous", in essence reap the fruit of our labors and be successful as individuals. We are also reminded of our individual responsibility to help the less fortunate among us......to be charitable.

Socialism does not encourage individuals to be prosperous and then mandates "charity" to all in the form of government taxes doled out to everyone whether they work hard or are lazy.

Many of Jesus' parables describe reaching good fortune by working hard and being smart and faithful. No socialist government could compare.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2009, 03:11:57 PM »

So therefore, socialism can be interpreted as evil according to those of us that believe in Jesus, His teachings and the Bible.

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2009, 03:21:20 PM »

Of course that notion is amplified by some of my favorite sayings from the good book:

"Goest thou against yon will and go work for a living, you lazy slacker"

And who could forget this one:

"Hath not in thine senses to realize your butt ain't nailed to the ground? Now get up and go to work, you lazy slacker"

And then this beauty:

"Thine perceptions of delicious foods at my table are but a mirage until you get up and go do some work, you lazy slacker"

And finally, this thought of illumination:

"A lazy slacker seeth not that there are ten thousand willing to do the job he shuns. That's because he's a lazy slacker."

nomosendero · « **Reply #15 on:** September 21, 2009, 03:30:24 PM »

Quote from: Questor on September 21, 2009, 12:09:21 PM

A relevant question for this thread is: why might socialism and the teachings of the new testament be seen as similar? They don't seem similar to me, but I'm interested in alternative views.

I'm stumped. I just can't think if an example in the bible where the concept of private property was violated for the benefit of others. (Conquest excepted.)

It would be a better question, this thread started as a false premise!! Of course Jesus taught sharing & the Apostles and early Christians did so & shared as necessity as well during periods of severe persecution.
It does well to also remember the scripture concerjning those who don't provide for their own are worse than an infidel & also if people don't work, neither should they eat. Those 2 are paraphased & this is not a Bible forum but if someone doesn't know about these 2 scriptures I can look them up for you for exact wording.

The early Christians had to do alot of things to travel & preach & many early Christians would help each other to get through this. I understand this subject was selected as a feel good moment, but remember Paul preached it was good not to marry, but again his letter addressed breathern who at the time were being killed & persecuted, which was the focus at the time, who would want to be tied up & helpless & watch your Wife burned at the stake or your kids dashed against a rock, so for the time being it was good not to marry, but he said if your desire for the opposite sex was too much & you could not abstain, then to
marry was better than the sin. Both of these are for the same reason, persecution. Paul had nothing against marriage. Looks like we have a little cherry picking going on here, since the contex is the same.

Also, Jesus taught in parables & no parable violated Christian principles or teachings. Jesus would have never taught the Parable of the Talents & taught a lie & this teaching was as opposite to Socialism as you can get.

The S word teaches the opposite of the teaching of Christ but Socialism is the teaching of the leading athiest of modern times such as Lenin, Stalin, folks like that. No-brainer

GH1 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2009, 11:52:35 PM »

I think if Jesus was to have any sort of political view it would probably be Libertarian. Personal freedom coupled with personal responsibility. Of course that's just me.
GH1

williamlayton · « **Reply #17 on:** September 22, 2009, 02:07:26 AM »

Jesus IS God.
The whole of the question is comparing apples to God.
Remember when Jesus said to render to Caesar what was his and too God what was His?
This world is the realm of satan--flesh and blood---non-durable.
Christ realm is eternal--nonfailing--perfect--without blemish.
How can God be political? It is His, He created, he controls--He is in the end.
Blessings

newstart2k · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2009, 02:39:14 AM »

Stop it Will or the "Well of course God is on our side because if he isn't he's wrong" group is going to come down on you hard.

Remember "God bless America" is supposed to be a prayer NOT a demand.

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2009, 02:51:09 AM »

To even ask or propose the question in the first place shows a decided lack of understanding of Christ and Christianity and I have to question the motives of the poster in the first place. I believe I've had quite enough of this one and am locking it down.