Author Topic: Trouble with .270 brass (Read 1525 times)

beerbelly · « **on:** September 21, 2009, 10:38:07 AM »

I just got some Lee .270 dies and once fired brass. I adjusted the dies as per instructions. They would not chamber, so I adjusted the down a little until the first one chambered.
I loaded 25 rounds and five will not chamber. I broke the five down and further adjusted the dies down, to no avail. They still will not chamber. Any ideas on what the problem might be? Thanks for any help
Beerbelly

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2009, 11:50:20 AM »

Problem = Lee Dies.

Retsof · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2009, 12:08:34 PM »

beerbelly,

I know several people who use Lee dies and have had no problem with them. With this being said, my Brother-in-Law was recently having the same problems as you are having but with the 270 WSM (not the 270 Winchester) and he was also using Lee dies. However, he went to the local Cabelas store and bought RCBS dies and the problem went away.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2009, 01:35:04 PM »

While any die from any manufacturer can be bad, Lee dies are the cheapest so their potential of having problems are higher than some of the other brand names. If you adjusted the dies per the instructions, how could you adjust them down? With your press ram all the way up, a full length die should be turned down until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram and then turn the die down 1 full turn. When the shell holder is raised, it should bottom out on the bottom of the die without being at the top of it's stroke. If you adjusted this way and the cases still will not fit, either the full length die is bad or the chamber is smaller than standard. If the die is bad (out of specification), Lee should replace it. They do not do as good as some of the other die manufacturers. I personally know that RCBS is excellent with warranty stuff. If your chamber is under sized, you may need to get small base dies to get your brass to fit. There is one other possibility, if you bullets are seated out too far and crimped, they could be running into the rifling before being fully chambered. Just some thing to think about - some times bargains are not much of a bargain. I have only bought once fired 223 military cases and they have never done as well as new brass of any brand that I have used, in the accuracy or service (number of reloads) departments. Other than the 223, I have have always bought new brass, that way I know for sure their history. Good Luck and Good Shooting

beerbelly · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2009, 02:09:16 PM »

I sized another 21 cases and only one would not chamber. I think this rifle must have a small chamber. It belongs to a friend and has never had any but, factory ammo fired in it before.
Beerbelly

Autorim · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2009, 04:47:34 PM »

If a factory round will chamber, a quality sizing die should resize the case to fit. All of my dies are RCBS or Redding except for the Dillon. I have a couple of rifles with tight chambers and I can size with no problem.

Try sizing cases from factory ammo that were fired in the rifle. Also, lube the inside of the case necks with graphite. It is possible to stretch a case with a snug fitting expander button with no lube.

Just MHO.

yooper77 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2009, 05:10:05 PM »

Did you trim the brass to proper length, because this might cause the brass not to chamber?

It could be the dies not sure, I have used Lee 22-250 Remington dies without any problems, but I no longer own Lee rifle dies.

I use Herters, RCBS, Redding and Hornady dies for my rifle cartridges.

yooper77

BCB · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2009, 11:49:10 PM »

At the bottom of the stroke, when the lever is completely down, screw the sizing die down until it touches the shell holder. Lift the arm and turn just a bit more—probably less than a 8th turn--you will never get a full turn and still have the lever be able to go the full stroke distance. Something will give or break. Mark the shoulder and web area with a magic marker to see if the die is touching the shoulder and web area during the sizing process. This will tell you if it is moving the shoulder back and sized the web area to specs…

Trim the case to “trim length” as mentioned in reloading manuals…

Seat a bullet to the specs as indicated in a reloading manual…

Then, measure the diameter of the neck and compare it to a factory…

If the reload is considerably larger in diameter, that could be your problem…

Neck reaming is the alternative, but is expensive and time consuming—try different brass—once fired comes in that particular rifle comes to mind!...

If none of this allows chambering, you probably have a die that has been cut to minimum specs—in other words, it is not sizing the case enough…

Good-luck…BCB

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2009, 05:13:14 AM »

I would be curious on what Lee die you are using. What are the markings on the side of it? Are you sure you are not using a Neck Collet die?

beerbelly · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2009, 08:35:02 AM »

It is stamped Lee 270-J8
Beerbelly

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:41:02 AM »

The LEE full length sizing die on the left and the LEE collet/neck sizing die on the right:

Bill

beerbelly · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2009, 12:36:54 PM »

My die is the full linght sizing die like the one on the left.
Beerbelly

Siskiyou · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2009, 03:55:54 PM »

I have RCBS, LYMAN, and LEE dies in 270 Winchester. I have no problem with the LEE dies. The exterior finish is nicer on the RCBS, and LYMAN dies.

charles p · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2009, 04:40:36 PM »

Never owned a Lee die. I think I'd call them for advice. Surely they have someone who can walk you through a proper adjustment.

Before you blame the rifle, ask someone with another reloading setup to size a few cartridges for you.

41 mag · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:15:22 AM »

Sometimes once fired brass, depending on where you got it might not all be once fired. It could have been range brass and most might be once fired with a few that have been reloaded several times mixed in. Also it might have been fired in an over sized chamber or with a max handload to begin with, which allowed it to stretch out a bit more than normal.

Sometimes the pump or auto loaders, like the Brownings or Remingtons. will have bigger chambers than standard bolt rifles to allow better functioning. I have had a few issues with other calibers and these particular two, when trying to load the same cases back for a bolt action. For the most part I use RCBS, Hornady, or Redding dies, and have had this issue with them all. I also have several set's of Lee in various calibers as well. Granted the Lee's aren't the best int eh west, but they generally will get cases back to a workable condition.

If the cases were originally fired in your friends particular rifle, then they might have been a bit hot even being factory loads. This might have allowed the area around the case head to expand a bit more than normal. This particular area is sometimes hard to get back to original specs with out using a small base die, no matter what brand your using.

One thing I have done in the past was to size a case like you mention, then polish it up using a drill and 0000 steel wool. Wipe it down good then chamber it. The tight area will leave slight marks on the case which can be easily seen using a flashlight to shine down along the side of the case length wise verses straight at it. If the marks are primarily in the area just above the base, worse case you might have to get a small base die or simply chunk the cases. But at least you know it is the die or the case causing the issue.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:46:46 AM »

Something to consider- Once I was reloading for the 30/30, and experienced a similar problem. Turns out the neck expander ball was sticking, causing the case to slightly bulge at the shoulder - Not enough to notice by sight, but enough to cause some failures to chamber. Cure? A little powdered lube in each case neck with a q-tip.

Larry

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2009, 11:08:25 AM »

Quote from: beerbelly on September 21, 2009, 10:38:07 AM

I just got some Lee .270 dies and once fired brass. I adjusted the dies as per instructions. They would not chamber, so I adjusted the down a little until the first one chambered.
I loaded 25 rounds and five will not chamber. I broke the five down and further adjusted the dies down, to no avail. They still will not chamber. Any ideas on what the problem might be? Thanks for any help
Beerbelly

I have to ask ,

1) Were they once fired in the rifle you are loading for ?

2) Did you check the COL of the brass before and after you sized them ?

That will help alot in finding your problem .

stimpy

PS -- I use a bunch of Lee dies and not so much as a hic-up in 25 years

Siskiyou · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:03:43 PM »

Stimpy maybe on the right track. I was given ten boxes of once fired .243 Winchester brass. I appreciated the gift from one of my wife’s uncles.

I became concerned about the brass when he told me the problems he was having with the older Mossberg Model 800 rifle. He described a rifle becoming unlocked on firing, and leaking gas. He offered the rifle to me and I passed.

A close inspection showed brass that was ready to fail. Using the old NRA paper clip test on the inside of the cases disclosed that a number of pieces ready to suffer incipient head separation. Sierra also describes case problems. It hurt but I dumped all the cases that had been fired in the problem rifle.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/caseinspect.cfm

BCB · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:24:44 PM »

I don't think it matters where the brass came from or how many times it was fired…

Full-length sized is full-length sized. Regardless of any thing wrong within the case, with the exception of a thick neck area, should be completely put back into place with the sizing die if it is set to full-length size…

A 30-30, when sized in a 7-30 Waters die will chamber in a 7.30 Waters chamber. The same with a .308 case sized in a 7mm-08 die, it will chamber. The same with a 30-06 case sized in a 270 die, it will chamber. If a 223 case is sized in a 222 die, it will chamber. These are “major” sizing moves—much more than size a 270 case in a 270 sizing die…

If indeed the sizing die is set to full-length size and the case will not chamber directly after sizing, then the die is at fault. But, if it does chamber after sizing but doesn’t chamber when the round is loaded to the proper O.C.L., then the problem is in the neck area…

Should be quite simple to figure this one out. If all of the above is true, the sizing die is not sizing the case enough and is cut to minimum standards or the neck brass is thick...

Good-luck…BCB

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:38:28 PM »

Quote from: BCB on September 25, 2009, 12:24:44 PM

I don't think it matters where the brass came from or how many times it was fired…

Full-length sized is full-length sized. Regardless of any thing wrong within the case, with the exception of a thick neck area, should be completely put back into place with the sizing die if it is set to full-length size…

A 30-30, when sized in a 7-30 Waters die will chamber in a 7.30 Waters chamber. The same with a .308 case sized in a 7mm-08 die, it will chamber. The same with a 30-06 case sized in a 270 die, it will chamber. If a 223 case is sized in a 222 die, it will chamber. These are “major” sizing moves—much more than size a 270 case in a 270 sizing die…

If indeed the sizing die is set to full-length size and the case will not chamber directly after sizing, then the die is at fault. But, if it does chamber after sizing but doesn’t chamber when the round is loaded to the proper O.C.L., then the problem is in the neck area…

Should be quite simple to figure this one out. If all of the above is true, the sizing die is not sizing the case enough and is cut to minimum standards or the neck brass is thick...

Good-luck…BCB

Could make all the difference , cases fired in the rifle in question should chamber with even a neck sizing , were as cases fired in a different rifle may have much different chamber specs , as for FL sizing , that will only size part of the case no matter who's dies are used , other wise there would be no need for small base dies to bring the area just above the case head back into spec .

stimpy

BCB · « **Reply #20 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:54:44 PM »

stimpylu32,

You may indeed be correct as beerbelly didn't say what rifle he was shooting them from. If it is a factory production rifle, doubt the chamber could be as tight as a custom made firearm.

My experiece with small base dies is that they might be needed for match grade rifles with chambers that are cut to minimum SAAMI specs. Most factory rifles have "hogged" up chamber and just about anything will fit, within reason.

And if one looks at the marks on a full legthed sized case, the marks go completly to the web of the case. I have seen no case expanded to the point where the web becomes so oversized as not to chamber, WHEN IT WAS ORIGINALLY FIRED IN THE CHAMBER IT WAS INTENDED. And if the first chamber was that oversized, it probably would have seperated on the first firing. I had a TCR 87 that done exactly that...

BCB

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2009, 05:24:29 AM »

What were the cases "once fired" in? What kind of rifle were they going in?
My youngun ran into this with some 7mags. He reloaded some shells for his bolt gun and let his buddy try them in his Encore. After that the brass belonged to his buddy becasue it never would size back for his rifle. He was using RCBS dies and full lengthing. We got aholt to some Hornady dies later. We tried all the tricks I've picked up over the last 30 yrs of reloading and nothing worked. He didn't want to buy another set of dies(small base), so he let his buddy have the ones that wouldn't fit.
Like others have said, try reloading some of the original cases from this rifle and see if the problem is still there.

HWD

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #22 on:** September 28, 2009, 12:55:42 PM »

Afternoon all.

I notice that some have the feeling that "full length sized" is full length sized, Period.

Not so.

Given that all manufacturing deals with production tolerences, the following can happen quite easily.

Let us say you have a rifle chamber which just happens to fall on the large side of the allowed tolerences.

This chamber IS NOT over sized, it is "within the manufacturing tolerences".

Now let us say we buy a set of dies, which are also made within the allowable tolerences and this "full length die" also happens to be on the upper (large) side of the allowed manufacturing tolerences.

You now have a situation where it is very likely the "once fired" brass from that rifle, sized (according to manufactures instructions) in that "full length die", will not chamber in a rifle which, while still within tolerences, happens to be on the other end of the allowed tolerence scale.

It happens!

Personaly as stated in other posts, I do not adjust my full length sizing die according to the manufactures instructions.

It only took me one time with a rifle having a chamber on the larger end of the tolerences and sizing according to directions with what might have been a die on the other end of tolerences, to find out this is a way to end up with very short brass life!!!!!!!!

I have for years, only adjusted my "full length dies" to the point where I have relyable chambering. If after firing those cases a time or two more, I find that the case is chambering a bit hard, I tweek the die down again just to the point where I again have relyable chambering.

After this process has been done a time or two, I will have arrived at a point where I am sizing my brass to the minimum which allows for positive and relyable chambering, while providing the longest possible brass life.

Once I have arrived at this point, I never need to change my sizer die setting again, UNLESS I change rifles, at which point the "new" chamber may require changes for best brass life.

The manufacturing tolerence thing is also why, one set of dies for 2 or more rifles with the same chamber/caliber designation, MAY(??) be less then ideal.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

mrcooper · « **Reply #23 on:** October 07, 2009, 10:15:49 AM »

I never read all the responses, so this could be a repeat BUT what kind of a rifle are you using? ifn it's a pump or auto, you most likely will need a SB Die.
I have a few Lee dies and have had no problem with them.