I need a tip on setting up a full length resizing die

[lonewolf5348]

I still run into problems with my 243 cal. (gun shoot excellent) but I find the cases need to be trimmed with every 2 reloads.
I trimmed my brass to 2.040 and after the cases is fired I come up with 2.055 I feel it is a lot 15 thou:
I set my die up with the ram at top die turn in until it touches the shell bushing and then 1/3 more of a turn.
The rifle a single shot I try to get the brass seated flush with the breach face,maybe a finger nail highaction closes with out any problems I find I have no light hits on the primer.
I like to ask am I setting the shoulder back too far?

[LONGTOM]

I like to ask am I setting the shoulder back too far?

Sounds that way.
Try only turning the die in about an 1/8th of a turn and see if it will chamber.
Should be all that is required.

Been a while since I reloaded for a bottleneck case.


LONGTOM

[Graybeard]

Generally speaking cases grow in length for two reasons. Perhaps the primary is the friction between the expander button and case when the button pulls thru the neck. Lubing it will help as will a TC expander button or one with a double taper. This is supposedly what the RCBS X Die eliminates.

The other is cause by brass flowing forward on firing. Ya really can't do much about that except use lower pressure loads. Unless you are really pushing the envelope tho this isn't likely the reason.

[LaOtto222]

If you want to size your cases and not shrink it down any more than possible - Start with a fired case. Back off your full length die a full turn from the shell holder when the ram is all the way up. Lube your case well, but not too much. Run your case in to the size die all the way up and with draw it. check to see if it fits in your chamber. More than likely it will not. If it does you will need to start over with a different case and back off your die even more. Assuming you do not have to back the die off any more - turn the die 1/32 of a turn and resize your case again. Try to chamber the case. Repeat until the case will JUST fit into your chamber and close. Now take another fired case and run it into the die, lubed of course, and then check your setting to make sure the case will just fit your chamber with out adjusting the die down any more. If every thing is right, tighten down the lock ring. Remove the die and set it back in and size another fired case. If it still chambers with out having excess head space, you have just custom set your die for your chamber. You can now size all your cases and not push the shoulder back too far, causing it to stretch excessively. This works well for break open single shot rifles like the Handi, Rossi, and T/C rifles to mention a few. Even if your gun has excessive head scape, once you have your dies set, it will work fine and should let your cases be loaded for several more loadings than a full length sized case. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[wncchester]

"The rifle a single shot ..."

If it's a break action you are probably getting a good amount of action stretching.  If so, there is no way you can limit the FL sizing enough to make a lot of difference.

[Dave in WV]

The .243 is one of the most prone to need trimming more often. Some folks have their chambers recut to the .243 AI to help with the problem. The 6mm Remington isn't as prone to "grow". I trim my .243 brass after each firing and it takes some off every time. I'm running near max loads and that makes it worse.

[Autorim]

All of the above posts seem correct. I shot a .243 until I wore the throat out and rebarrelled it to a 7mm-08. I also trimmed my .243 cases after every firing and they were always a bit longer.

[wncchester]

"The .243 is one of the most prone to need trimming more often."

That seems odd to me.  I've had at least one .243 in the collection since the early 70s.  Done a lot of shooting and loading for them, never noticed the cases stretching any more than others and I rarely need to trim anything.   Of course, ANY cases will stretch if they are over resized, doing it like the "instructions" say, "die to touch the shell holder plus a bit",  is the perhaps the worst possible way to size. ??

[cwlongshot]

 My first though when ever someone complains about cases growing is the expander button. (As Bill already mentioned to you) The second is excessive pressure and thirdly is a problem chamber. IE excessive head-space. Growing cases for the second to will begin to show a ring just above the web of the case. This is where the case goes from thick in the base to thin in its sides. Brass flows from pressure and this ring will become more and more evident until the case splits in two.

You do not mention your dies your using. I recommend you mic your expander ball. and see what you have to begin with. Then if your not already begin a better regimen for lubing your necks. I like mica, applied with a brush from a neat little kit I bought from midway some years back. The old way dad taught me turning the case mouth on the pad works OK but is consistent and can cause other problems if too much lube gets in the case neck.

LaOtto 222 does an excellent job correctly outlining the die setup for custom fit.

Post up with your results, when you try our tips!!

Good luck,
 CW

[lonewolf5348]

I found out I was resizing too much and setting shoulder back to far.I had a old timer tell me to use a 40 cal. case seated midway between the shoulder and mic: it and use fired brass in that action
I then turn the resizing die in to touch the shell holder and then back the die 1 full turn counterclockwise.I then turn the die a 1/4 at at time until I see the calipers read .0025 lock the die ring and it should be a go.
I loaded a few rounds and will see what happens this weekend

[Dave in WV]

"Of course, ANY cases will stretch if they are over resized, doing it like the "instructions" say, "die to touch the shell holder plus a bit",  is the perhaps the worst possible way to size. ??"

I set my FL resizing die so it doesn't set the shoulder back. I clean and lightly lube the inside of the neck. I'm using a Hornady die. The rifle is a Ruger M 77 MKII stainless.

My experience is when I trim after every resizing some brass is removed. My son's .243 needs trimming more often than his 30-06 and .280  but I can't say he trims after every resizing. I've read it more than once the .243 is prone to grow (by flowing forward when the cartridge is fired) more than many other cases due to the area of the shoulder and the angle. Yes, I stated "I've read" but then again what are we posting here and where is our information from? From our experiences and what the supposedly more knowledgeable writers have to say. Safe shooting, Dave

[Hank in Indiana]

In a single shot try neck size only. It's a lot easier on the brass.

[handride]

  Most of my Handi rifles have chambers that are on the longer end of SAMI specs.  I have compared them to Savage, Ruger and Rem with RCBS case Mic.  What you will see is long cases coming out of your Handi and a large amount of shoulder setback and the increased brass flow causing your cases to grow quickly.  This will also cause your case necks to thicken.  You must be able to measure how far you are setting back your shoulders(RCBS case mic).  You really only want to set them back 1-2 thou.  These rounds probably wont chamber in a non Handi chamber.  I sat up some 243 dies per mfg directions and resized some fired cases from my handi and measured 11 thou of shoulder setback!!  Most if not all Handis that I have owned have had chambers cut on the long side.  So it is very possible to overs do it when resizing for handi. 

[calvon]

You can minimize case length growth by neck sizing brass that has been previously fired in your rifle. Back off the sizing die until all but a tiny bit of the neck is being sized. With the die so set the shoulder won't be set back. It should then chamber easily in your rifle.

Most brass length growth takes place in the full length sizing die when that die is set to to bump hard onto the ram in the press. Under those conditions, the shoulder is set back. The diameter of the main body of the case is reduced to minimum SAAMI dimensions. The last tiny little bit of ram travel forces everything forward. The brass has nowhere to go except into the neck, hence the length growth.

Don't believe me? OK, then don't. But before you vent some steam in my direction, check your brass length with an accurate caliper before you shoot it, before you resize it, and measure it again after you resize. You might be surprised by the results.

[Sweetwater]

I've got to ask, "why are we setting the shoulder back"?     Not a good practice.

Calvon: +1     This round headspaces on the shoulder. The fired case is formed to the chamber. When you set back the shoulder, you are changing the headspace. I've always set my dies to NOT TOUCH THE SHOULDER, so as not to upset the headspace. Only exception is when the cartridges are to be used in more than one rifle. Then, and only then, do I set the die for SAAMI specs.

Your cases need to fit your chamber. Be careful not to touch the shoulder.

Merry Christmas,
Sweetwater

[necchi]

I gotta bump the shoulder just a bit on my handi 7-08, but not on the 223.
 I tried all the fired brass I had for fit,,ones that went in flat at the breech I "smoked" the shoulder and fitted again till I got one that just touched the chamber shoulder.
 Then I took that one over to the bench smoked it again and set the die to just touch the shoulder of that case. That gave me a setting that works well. I set the lock nut there, they will ony be fired in this gun. The die goes down easy and there is no camming force needed, The cases fit the gun. Trimming is minimal.

[JustaShooter]

No disrespect to those who have posted otherwise, but for break actions like the Handi, Contender and Encore it is generally better to use a full length die rather than a neck sizing die for cartridges that headspace on the shoulder.  You need to set the full length die to set the shoulder back to give a consistent headspace that fits your gun.  If not, the flex of the frame when firing allows the case to grow from shoulder to case head, and you'll get inconsistent pressure of the case head against the frame, which leads to vertical stringing.  Yes, this does work the case a bit more and thus shortens the life of the cases a bit but proper setting of the die minimizes this. 

Of course there are exceptions, most notably lower pressure cartridges that don't grow as quickly (and even they benefit from this approach, just not as much).  In general, properly set full length sizing is better for break actions, and neck sizing for bolt guns.

Just a Shooter

[necchi]

If not, the flex of the frame when firing allows the case to grow from shoulder to case head, and you'll get inconsistent pressure of the case head against the frame, which leads to vertical stringing. 

You mean you DON'T want the case shoulder ON the chamber shoulder? That we should do a full length sizing to leave room for expantion on the front end? I'm not doggin the idea, just trying to grasp it.
I'll keep this in mind with the next loading of 7-08. I haven't had a vertical string problem with that one but i do with the 223.
 Common advise for that has been hot barrel trouble. The shoulder on my 223 chamber is .007 longer than sammi case measurements so I'm far from the shoulder already. But the 7-08 case shoulder is on it,,we'll see.

[JustaShooter]

Sorry, my wording wasn't as clear and precise as it should have been.  With a break action, you will always get frame flex and growth of the cartridge.  The goal is to take the cartridge back just enough so that there is a minimal amount of extra headspace - for Encores, a gap of .001 - .002 is about right.  That way, you get good consistent lockup of the action and no pressure of the cartridge against the frame.  if you don't, the differing amounts of pressure tend to produce vertical stringing of shots.

Hope that clarifies things.

Just a Shooter

[necchi]

mmm, thanks, that makes more better sence. I'll keep in mind the vertical shot's,,if I get'm, I can always bump back a tad more,,thank you