Author Topic: Ahmadinejad Is A Man To Fear! (Read 6931 times)

beerbelly · « **Reply #90 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:25:23 AM »

Powderman Israel don't want peace either. They want land and are taking more of it everyday, with their settlements. I don't believe god gave anyone anything, because I don't believe in your god or anyone else's god.
If he was real and everything you say he is, all knowing, all powerful, in control of everything. Then he would be one sorry SOB for allowing what goes on in this world.
Religion is nothing more than man's fear of death. So you tell your self the big lie, the great spook in the sky is going to let me live after I die. It ain't going to happen hoss!
The Israeli's and Muslims are just men, men greedy for more power and more land and wealth. They will fight as long as they live.
Beerbelly

BBF · « **Reply #91 on:** October 06, 2009, 08:47:55 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on October 05, 2009, 11:37:01 AM

On the Holocaust.

...........With countries around the world turning away Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust.....................

You don't read who, and why those countries did this these days , Hmmm maybe the figured the Germans might be at least partially right of wanting to get rid of them.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #92 on:** October 06, 2009, 09:53:16 AM »

Lets make no mistake about it. Isreal and the Palestinians both want peace. They both just want to kill each off before they get there.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #93 on:** October 06, 2009, 09:59:07 AM »

Lets be honest they each want the other ones piece , of land that is .

DDZ · « **Reply #94 on:** October 06, 2009, 10:16:03 AM »

TM, I don't know where you get your information about Hagee, but its wrong. I have read a few of his books and he has never once said that Jews don't need to accept Christ. I have never read either where he said that the Bible needs to be rewritten. Hagee has been preaching the Gospel for 50 years, and he uses Scripture in his books to back up what he writes. I tend to think that you just don't like what he has to say, as you don't like to hear what Rush L. has to say. I know when people like you hear the truth it hurts, and try every means to dispel it. Hagee is spot on in his book "Jerusalem Countdown" and as I said he uses Scripture to back up everything he says.

scootrd · « **Reply #95 on:** October 06, 2009, 10:21:59 AM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on October 06, 2009, 09:53:16 AM

Lets make no mistake about it. Isreal and the Palestinians both want peace. They both just want to kill each off before they get there.

You Know cabin as sad a statement as that is .. It's probably very close to the truth. It's unfortunate since they share so many holy sites and both obviously have an affinity to the land. What's missing is tolerance and respect for each other cultures and religions (even when one disagrees). I'm not saying they have to set aside all differences or even be "close neighbors" but cultures should be able to live side by side with all their differences without killing each other.

This is a little off topic from Armadinajad the nut, and his playmate Kim Jong Il but I found it interesting when I was reading about different religions , I read a monk once asked Budda is there is a God. Budda replied, I don't know if there is a God , but if there is these would probably be the teachings he would want you to follow .. then Budda went on to lay out laws that almost mirrored our 10 commandments.

This is just one example of a non christian religion that recognizes tolerance for cultural and religious differences. I look at the middle east and just shake my head , each side says it's not about religion it's about land. I'm just not buying it. If Israel would pull back to original boundaries and stop building additional settlements it would be interesting to see if the violence would cease. If it didn't then we all would know It was really about religious and cultural intolerance.

Both are at fault. But I still believe Israel is overreaching with their land grabs. I guess I don't understand why the U.S always comes to their aid. There have been very few instances when the U.S. has actually condemned Israels actions even when they answer thrown bottles and rocks with tanks and rockets.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #96 on:** October 06, 2009, 12:37:20 PM »

Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1806

"We ask for peace and justice from all nations; and we will remain uprightly neutral in fact."

We should take his lead.

scootrd · « **Reply #97 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:22:56 PM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on October 06, 2009, 12:37:20 PM

Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1806

"We ask for peace and justice from all nations; and we will remain uprightly neutral in fact."

We should take his lead.

Exactly .. Like I said I don't understand why we always come to the aid of Israel.

"How much better is it for neighbors to help than to hurt one another; how much happier must it make them. If nations will cease to make war on one another, if they will live in friendship with all mankind, they can employ all their time in providing food and clothing for themselves and their people. Their men will not be destroyed in war, their women and children will lie down to sleep in their homes without fear of being surprised by their enemies and killed or carried away. Their numbers will be increased instead of diminished and they will live in plenty and in quiet." --Thomas Jefferson.

"For us to attempt by war to reform all Europe, and bring them back to principles of morality and a respect for the equal rights of nations, would show us to be only maniacs of another character." Thomas Jefferson

Same holds True for Israel and Palestine in my opinion.

powderman · « **Reply #98 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:39:47 PM »

DAVE, DDZ. Good posts gents.
BEERBELLY. You are wrong my friend.
SCOOTRD. We come to Israels aid because it's the right thing to do. God has blessed us as a nation because of this. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #99 on:** October 06, 2009, 04:11:00 PM »

Thomas Jefferson to Robert R. Livingston, 1801

"War between two nations cannot diminish the rights of the rest of the world remaining at peace. The doctrine that the rights of nations remaining quietly in the exercise of moral and social duties, are to give way to the convenience of those who prefer plundering and murdering one another, is a monstrous doctrine, and ought to yield to the more rational law, that "the wrong which two nations endeavor to inflict on each other must not infringe on the rights or conveniences of those remaining at peace."

We need to be neutral. Plain & Simple. I think that is your point Scootrd and I agree. There is no need for us to take a side in this debate. If want to try and broker an effort to an agreement, that to me seems like the correct posture. We have not been even handed and this is aggrevating the condition.

BBF · « **Reply #100 on:** October 07, 2009, 04:37:47 AM »

[/quote]
Exactly .. Like I said I don't understand why we always come to the aid of Israel.

[/quote]

The answer to that is the number of Jews religious or ethnic with high allegiance to Israel/ethic identification that are in charge or possess crtical,sensitive and important positions in Govt. Media and Financial Institutions.
BTW this situation is not limited to the USA.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #101 on:** October 07, 2009, 05:10:38 AM »

Cabin that sounds good on paper but one only need look at history . When other nations get togather to create more power then the remaining also must bind togather as seperate they will be over taken . If nothing else Iseral is our first line of detection of a move in that area of the world and worth defending .

Cabin4 · « **Reply #102 on:** October 07, 2009, 05:18:13 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 07, 2009, 05:10:38 AM

Cabin that sounds good on paper but one only need look at history . When other nations get togather to create more power then the remaining also must bind togather as seperate they will be over taken . If nothing else Iseral is our first line of detection of a move in that area of the world and worth defending .

I do not see the world as a battle ground for us.

Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Pittsburgh Republicans, 1808
"Believing that the happiness of mankind is best promoted by the useful pursuits of peace, that on these alone a stable prosperity can be founded, that the evils of war are great in their endurance, and have a long reckoning for ages to come, I have used my best endeavors to keep our country uncommitted in the troubles which afflict Europe, and which assail us on every side."

Replace Europe with Middle East. How long has this conflict been going on in the middle east??

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #103 on:** October 07, 2009, 05:57:05 AM »

Thomas Jefferson was the first president to send troops across the ocean to attack another country , the Islam pirates and the country that sponsered them that were attacking American ships among others . Since that was North Africa seems he did one thing and talked another . But he was correct we are over 200 years later and still fighting there .

BBF · « **Reply #104 on:** October 07, 2009, 06:05:18 AM »

Shootall: So when are the pirates in Somalia taken care of?
They are alive and well and collecting big $

This thing in the ME, put the blame on the UK, they made that happen and other places where Peoples ended up in a newly created country that should never have been in the first place.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #105 on:** October 07, 2009, 06:05:48 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 07, 2009, 05:57:05 AM

Thomas Jefferson was the first president to send troops across the ocean to attack another country , the Islam pirates and the country that sponsered them that were attacking American ships among others . Since that was North Africa seems he did one thing and talked another . But he was correct we are over 200 years later and still fighting there .

Jefferson was not a pacifist. Attacking American ships on the high seas requires us to respond. We have a right to be there. The issues with Israel draw no parallel to this as I see it.

DDZ · « **Reply #106 on:** October 07, 2009, 11:22:32 AM »

TM, I guess you can find anything that suits your agenda on the internet. I can find a big article discrediting Rev. Pike. Like his web site posted as a do-gooder Christian organization is nothing more than a hate site directed at Jews, and that Pike believes Jews are the source of all evil.
Do you know that there are many pastors that do not believe that the Jews are God's chosen people? The Bible tells me different TM. Thats what I refer too, to get truth, not something that is posted on the internet by man. I do tend to believe that what I read about Ted Pike as being true, because he is trying to discredit someone that speaks the truth about Israel, and that you the Israel hater found it and posted it.
Hagee backs up what he writes in his books with Scripture, and thats good enough for me.
Genesis 12:3 - "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

powderman · « **Reply #107 on:** October 07, 2009, 02:18:24 PM »

DDZ. Once again I say, good post. POWDERMAN.

scootrd · « **Reply #108 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:51:21 AM »

I am neither Pro -Israeli - nor pro-Palestinian , I do adopt neutrality as Cabin has pointed out , But I also recognize hypocrisy when I see it.

Example :

Palestinian view

The Palestinian People see the mass immigration - mainly from Europe, the United States of America, and Arabic countries - of modern-day Israelis to this region of the world, their acts of warfare, and the establishment of the state of Israel as an act of illegal occupation.

Israeli views

The traditional Israeli view has been that there is no such thing as a separate Palestinian people, distinct from other Arabs, at least historically. The borders of historical Palestine and surrounding countries were arbitrarily determined and there are already several Arab nations. Therefore, it is unreasonable to demand that Israel should have any responsibility or part in establishing a nation for them.

This is summarized by the famous statement of Israeli Prime Minister (1969-74) Golda Meir: "There was no such thing as Palestinians ... It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist."

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well I suggest the converse is true - There was no predominantly Jewish modern state of Israel in that region until at the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, (There was a biblical land of Israel but not state) the victorious European states divided many of its component regions into political entities - under League of Nations mandates - for their own goals. In November 1947 the United Nations decided on partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem.

It obviously wasn't unreasonable at the time for the Jewish peoples to ask that the world to have responsibility in establishing a nation for them . But now it's apparently unreasonable for them to be part of a process to set aside land for the modern day inhabitants that were displaced upon their arrival? Since Golda Meir's position is the borders were arbitrarily determined to make room for the modern state of Israel. By her own admission if there is no such thing as a separate Palestinian peoples or existing Palestinian nation then the land now carved out and occupied by the modern state of Israel was already part of other legitimate existing Arab nations.

So It's OK for the world to acknowledge the Jewish state of Israel but It's not OK with Israel for world to acknowledge an Arab state
for the peoples they displaced.

Then should they not vacate the land and give it back to Jordan , Lebanon, and Syria who's land it was to begin with before it was Arbitrarily carved up to make room for them ? hmmm

Of course not , Then two state solution now seems to be the only option. So the only alternative it seems is reinstate the boundaries back to the 1947 lines. (pre 1967 6 day war) Give up the Gaza strip and the west bank and Golan heights regions and dismantle Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories per 1947 boundaries. And since in all theory that is unattainable the only other true solution is to follow the roadmap for peace and it's outlined proposed boundaries.

Sometimes there is not a win-win solution but a lose -lose solution is necessary for the greater good. But one does have to recognize the Hypocrisy in the Israeli position.

comments and other viewpoints welcome...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #109 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:55:52 AM »

So Israel has no right to be there ?

scootrd · « **Reply #110 on:** October 08, 2009, 12:57:00 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 08, 2009, 10:55:52 AM

So Israel has no right to be there ?

I didn't say that - It''s obviously too late to turn the clock back and unravel the mess the British and the U.N. left the world with , Additionally I fully acknowledge they are an important democratic presence in the middle east. - I said the two state solution now seems to be the only logical option for all to have the right to exist. The position of Israel is the world gave us our nation , but now we don't have any obligation to give Palestine theirs. The Hypocrisy of Golda Meir and the overall Israeli position is hard to overlook.

Israel should relinquish the Gaza strip in it's entirety along with the west bank and Golan heights regions captured in 6 day war, dismantle all Israeli settlements established in Palestinian territories after the 1947 boundaries were drawn- or at the very least follow the roadmap for peace and the proposed boundaries outlined in the Oslo Accord. This is the same argument I have with my Jewish Brother -in-law Ira, and he just basically stops talking with me whenever he brings it up and I point this Hypocrisy out. .

powderman · « **Reply #111 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:34:02 PM »

I got a better idea. Move Israels borders back to the original grant GOD gave them thousands of years ago, and move the trespassers out, one way or the other. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #112 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:09:17 PM »

Our country and government are sick and suffering from what seems incurable internal diseases. We have no place in this struggle concerning the Jewish & Palestinian solution.

Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1821
"How easily we prescribe for others a cure for their difficulties, while we cannot cure our own."

scootrd · « **Reply #113 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:35:10 PM »

Quote from: powderman on October 08, 2009, 02:34:02 PM

I got a better idea. Move Israels borders back to the original grant GOD gave them thousands of years ago, and move the trespassers out, one way or the other. POWDERMAN.

I'm not debating whether God gave them "the promised land or not"

What I am pointing out is Historically The earliest mention of Israel as a group of people is on a 'stele' (victory tablet) of Pharoah Merneptah which dates from 1220BC. He lists the people of Israel as those he conquered during a military campaign in Palestine. This corresponds to Exodus 1:11.

Bible Account states Joshua led the Joseph tribes in establishing a stronghold in the central highland. Later as they moved toward the coast, they encountered Greek migrants called the Philistines. The occupation, conquest and settlement of Canaan brought both blessings and problems because the Israelite's were still living among the highly civilized Canaanites whose religion and culture influenced many of them adversely. the Canaanite clans were - Sidon, Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites. It's this conflict between the Israelite's and the "peoples of the land" that has continued right to the present day. So who was there first? Obviously not the Israelite's . It appears the "Peoples of the land "were there first since they were encountered during the Exodus" This would include Philistines, and the Canaanite clans.

If you want to Argue God promised them the land through a covenant with Abraham , that is a separate Biblical debate.

powderman · « **Reply #114 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:27:31 PM »

SCOOTRD. I can see you have done some research, thats good. I base what I said on the book of Numbers, chapter 34. Also there is a map in the back of our big family Bible showing the land God promised Israel, it's Northern boundary goes right up to Damascus, partly now occupied by 5 Godless nations. Doesn't matter who was there first, God gave it to Israel. POWDERMAN.

beerbelly · « **Reply #115 on:** October 09, 2009, 01:49:34 AM »

You say the Jews god gave them all that land. I bet the Moslems will say their god gave it to them.
Gods do not settle land disputes! People do, usually people with guns. In the shot term with us to back them up , the Israelis have had the biggest gun. But our power is diminishing rapidly. Once our power is gone the Israelis will not last long.
With out our help and intel service they would have won none of the wars they have fought.
I just hope when they go down they have enough nukes to take the moslems with them!
Beerbelly

powderman · « **Reply #116 on:** October 09, 2009, 02:11:19 AM »

BEERBELLY. Israel was winning wars against far superiour numbers way before there was a United States. POWDERMAN.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #117 on:** October 09, 2009, 04:21:30 AM »

Scootrd , saying the Jew has no claim to its land brings up our claim to America ?

Cabin 4 yes we have issues and will work thru. them . Our Govt. is set up that way . Do we turn our backs on obligations we made ?

Would it not be the ultimate Viet Nam ?

Cabin4 · « **Reply #118 on:** October 09, 2009, 05:19:55 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 09, 2009, 04:21:30 AM

Scootrd , saying the Jew has no claim to its land brings up our claim to America ?

Cabin 4 yes we have issues and will work thru. them . Our Govt. is set up that way . Do we turn our backs on obligations we made ?

Would it not be the ultimate Viet Nam ?

I see that we have done these people more harm by our involvement. The UN has done more harm to this process as it creates a forum for the two combatants to play their political issues on a global stage. Then, each side waits to see were the support comes from through the corrupt process of so called resolutions.

How we extricate ourselves from this process will not be easy nor fast. But this should be our goal, to move from the current forward position to that of the neutral . Israel is strong and capable of taking care of its own interests. They will need to work towards compromise and the less direct support they find and the fewer political play stages there are, will quicken the path towards this resolution.

ironglow · « **Reply #119 on:** October 09, 2009, 11:24:09 AM »

Hey guys; have we all forgotten the start of this thread?

It was about old "A-jad", remember ..?

While I do believe the Jews were not given their homeland by modern nations, but by God..and I believe that anyone who curses the Jews could be in serious trouble,... I just had to Google up this Rev. Ted Pike.
While the site I found didn't cuss out the Jews, if he does he has a problem. However, I did find something I do agree with. I vehemently dislike any kind of laws concerning "hate speech" and "hate crimes".
Our forefathers had it right, we should have freedom of speech..even freedom to say something stupid. If it is stupid enough, public disapproval will cause us to abandon our stupid ideas or be stigmatized. Of course, freedom of speech doesn't protect us when we employ lies or slander ...and it shouldn't. Hate crimes...a stupid notion..punish someone for the crime thay actually committed; not for what somebody "thought they were thinking".
The problem with "hate" speech/crimes is that SOMEBODY has to decide what constitutes "hate" words or thoughts. Shucks; wasn't long ago when we had a president who couldn't tell what IS...IS...