Republican or Democrat Next Fall?

[Dee]

I have watched, and my family has participated (even my near 80 year old mother) in the "Tea Parties" suggested and supported by my home state (Texas) Congressman Ron Paul. I have heard much about the "winds of change" coming next election, that the common man (voter) is taking back his (or her) country when it is time to vote.
My response to the person bringing this topic up is: We'll see. At this point I am reminded by the person of the "Tea Parties" and the outrage of the voter that the Democrats and Republicans are IGNORING THE PEOPLE. Usually at this point I will ask my co-conspirator in the discussion, whether he is voting Democrat or Republican, at which point he says, I am voting AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS. I again ask, "Democrat or Republican", and the answer IS ALWAYS, Republican, at which I ask a second question. Why not vote INDEPENDENT, to which their response is always: They can't win! Next question to my opponent is: WHY NOT? Answer is always: They don't have enough support, I would if I thought they could win.
My response is as always: Maybe they need YOUR SUPPORT!
Response? Frustration at me. 
When American voters CHANGE, I will go ice skating on Hell's Lake of Fire.
Although I truly wish America WOULD WAKE UP, I see the "lessor of two evils" (the Republicans) taking some house seats next November. After all, it IS THEIR TURN.
Save the lectures, I have heard them all, and am voting "as always" INDEPENDENT! I will not support the very thing that is stealing my freedoms one at a time, while wearing a smile, and a Republican or Democratic campaign button. The Democrats are Marxists not doubt, but the Republicans are Socialists, and have long since stopped even resembling a TRUE CONSERVATIVE.
Name your poison ladies and gentlemen, (Republican or Democrat) but remember. Always vote out of fear of the opponent, not for what is right. Right cannot win. They don't have enough support.

[45-70.gov]

i have bumped heads with you for a while  here

you are one of the few  that have influenced  my hard head and  agree with  you more often

i   too would like to  see  the  fall  of the  ''REPUBLICRATS''   as much as  you

if  OBAMA keeps blaming bush for 3 more years

he  might actually  help us  elect   some one worth having

did  i hear  PALIN  is no longer registered republican

[briarpatch]

I suppose to respond to this post I must fess up.
I have been part of the problem this country finds itself in. I have helped it move in the direction that has almost, or will assure its destruction.
All this by voting for the party and not the man.
The bushes, mcains and obamas. same mentality, one world government at any cost so they can be elite and oversee us peasants.
They have a stake in your destruction.
I will vote for who I think is best from this point on. It will be hard to undo what has been done but we must try.  

[Cabin4]

With rare exception, for me, voting is about pulling the lever for the lessor of two evils. I too have particiapted in a number of tea party protests. People who were always low keyed and never protested, are out protesting. It does have momentum. Will it last to the 2010 cycle, that remains to be seen. Clearly, some of the luster of Obama is waring off, that could be enough to influence the mid term elections.

[mechanic]

I will vote against anyone who has already been in office.  I will vote against the two main parties.  Beyond that I don't know at this point.  I know I will not vote "for" someone who has had plenty of time to fix things and hasn't.

[The Hermit]

+1 mechanic. Kick them all out and start over.

   The Hermit

[torpedoman]

I will vote against anyone who has already been in office.  I will vote against the two main parties.  Beyond that I don't know at this point.  I know I will not vote "for" someone who has had plenty of time to fix things and hasn't.

The PARTY is what is wrong with the country because they are both controlled by people who do not have your or the countries best interest at heart. I have NEVER voted for a winner because i vote for independents or libertarians I refuse to vote for the LESSOR of two evils because there in no such thing bad is bad no matter were they stand. The lessor of two evils has gotten us to were we are at and now the folks in charge realize that they can elect anyone by making him the lessor of the evils. Make your vote count next time even if you have to vote for a looser.

[Empty Quiver]

I don't see any incumbant that needs to return from my district. A state that can put Jesse Ventura and Al Franken in office can surely elect a valid third party candidate to any office. That is my prayer anyway. This crowd has led and has followed now it's time to get out of the way.

[powderman]

Til a third party actually campaigns and make a real race of it, I refuse to throw my vote away, I'll vote for whatever Republican that gets the nomination, anybody but a dumcrap. The ONLY time I've seen a 3rd party actually TRY to make a showing was Ross Perot, he had my vote til he dropped out. Til someone runs like him, I'll make my vote count. POWDERMAN. 

[Redtail1949]

I will not vote for any democrat regardless as for as a republican they gotta show me the beef if they ain't got it hopefully someone with honor and love for this country will show his face.

[nomosendero]

I will vote for anyone who is following the Constitution, if that person exists. That should mean 3rd party most of the time, only a hand full or Republicans (small hand indeed) do that & NO DEMS are concerned about the Constitution at all.

[slim rem 7]

 dee .. could you mabe post some links about ron paul ...
 his speeches ,,his platform an plans..
  perhaps hes what im looking for..
 sara palin is my only hope right now an i think she may have decided to live a more private life..
 if you would ,,id appreciate it... slim...

[Graybeard]

I'll try to vote for whatever candidate looks best for each office. Reality is that pretty much the only choices available will be a dumocrap or a republican. We seldom see independents or other party candidates here. So you can bet the farm safely that all such here will be filled from one of the two major parties as there will be no other viable options and in most cases no other options period.

For the most part it will be the same for the next presidential election assuming there is another. Until some other party call it third fourth or fifth as you wish gets established in most of the states at the local and state level and have viable candidates in place who can then be put forth at the national level then you'll have darn few congressmen, senators and no president from other than the two current major parties.

There is just no effort being made to establish any viable alternative so it will continue to be business as usual. We're NOT gonna turn it around in this country at the polls. Nothing short of states pulling out of the union or an all out revolution is gonna unseat the two current parties and return the US to Constitutional rule. Quite honestly I'm not sure enough have the stomach for it. Unless they over step their bounds too quickly they can just keep on keeping on at a slow pace and like a frog being slowly cooked alive we'll not jump out of the pan.

[billy_56081]

I have to agree with Graybeard here. I see no effort being made by the third partys to get a race going. If there ever was a time for a Conservative third party to make inroads now is the time. Ron Paul is Republican, he and the very few other conservative Republicans need to break away and be the leadership for a new CONSERVATIVE third party.

[Dee]

Read gentlemen. Research the causes. The reason the third parties do not get out and advertise, is because until you get a certain amount of votes in an area, they cannot get the millions of dollars of "FEDERAL" CAMPAGIN AID the Democrats and Republicans get. Gosh! I wonder who passed that piece of legislation?
Last presidential election there was a Constitutional Party candidate, AND, a Libertarian Party candidate on the ballot. BOTH! Pro-Constitution and BOTH! Pro-Bill of Rights.
They will never get the support until the American people in mass ABANDON A FAILED THEOLOGY OF VOTING.

slim rem, I am not promoting Ron Paul or any other, one has only to search the Internet for info. It is part of being an American to take responsibility for researching your candidates, or your prospective candidates.
Some here have proven my point by the reluctance to change, and the continued voting out of fear, and it most certainly will be more of the same next election. All claim not to be voting out of fear, but only fear will cause one to support someone they know is a liar and a cheat, and has the voting record to prove it. They are LESS AFRAID of the lessor of the two. Plain and simple.
This is an easy prediction, with a follow along public. The Democrats and Republicans have every right to be arrogantly confident in maintaining their control of the country. As GB said, they (the people) will not fight. Merely bluster.

[briarpatch]

I think GB hit the nail on the head.
What we usually end up with is the two the media picks. People rely on the media so much that they are able to bring a slug from the rear (mccain) or put an idiot at the top (obama). They have become the greatest power on earth and they are solid left.
Unless the masses shut them off and look at what runs for office. It will not change.
Dont hold your breath on that one. 

[DDZ]

I would love to vote for someone from the Libertarian or Constitution party, but I have to agree with GB and Briarpatch. It isn’t going to happen unless there is a revolution. The big money just isn’t there for one of the other parties to compete, and yes the media has a lot of say so. I think if the media would have supported Osama Bin Laden like they did Obama this country would have elected him.
I think it has to begin with education. The last couple of generations have been dumbed down  by our own educational system. If an unfriendly power had tried to impose on us the educational system we have today, we might have viewed it as an act of war.
Forth and fifth graders were asked what is Memorial Day. I forget what part of the country this question was asked, but it was in this country. The most given answer was “The day the pools open”.
 Our founding documents are not taught in schools anymore, let alone the Constitution and what is right and wrong. We can say well, it’s the parents job to teach them, and I say yes it is, but if the parents have been indoctrinated in our schools what are they going to teach their children.
The Holy Bible and Scriptures used to be part of our educational system. Our founding fathers, and the Supreme Court recommended it to be in schools. Now its unconstitutional to have a Bible in school let alone read one. That’s how we have gotten away from knowing what is right and wrong. We now have the state telling children what is right and wrong instead of God. 
Instead of American History being taught, its things like, Globalism, nuclear disbarment, United nations and the international Court of Justice, national healthcare, population control, and earth day, multi-culturalism and diversity. We teach that its normal to be a homosexual, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered. We have school based health clinics that promote abortion. We even have pre K Aids education. We have the powerful union backed teachers that can’t be fired for incompetence.
We expect and want a Constitutionalist to be elected, but I really can’t see it happening.       

[Questor]

I have no idea of what electing Republicans in the next election will accomplish. They proved themselves to be irresponsible the last time they had power. They wasted their mandate. Voting for republicans is just as stupid today as voting for democrats.

[magooch]

It's true that Republicans aren't perfect by any measure, but trying to equate them and Dumbycrats is ridiculous.  The Dumbycrats of today are marxist communists--pure and simple.  Call the Republicans anything you want, but they aren't even in the same league with their opponents.   

For the most part, I believe that true Republicans--not RINOs--still believe in the Constitution and fiscal responsibility.  I have no idea what an independent might believe and even if one or two might get elected, they are going to be lost and ineffective without the force of a coalition to make things happen.

This country is well on its way down the path of socialism--if not marxism and it's going to take something close to a revolution to change course.  That won't happen until the commies (Dumbycrats) go too far.

[kynardsj]

It will definately not be a Democrat.

[Questor]

Magooch:

That's kind of what I'm saying. When the democrats go too far, things will change. But the reality seems to be that they have gone too far and there is nothing to replace them. That's the problem as I see it.

[Davemuzz]

I'm a registered Republican. Have been for 30 years. In the last election, the Republican party didn't help their cause by choosing Sarah Palin as McCain's running mate. After the initial Rah, Rah wore off, she simply came off as a dumb blond.  And there's a good reason for that.

My wife and I were fortunate enough to take a 7 day trip to the great state of Alaska about a month ago. If you ever get a chance to go there and view the scenery....do it. It's worth the price of admission.

But, the locals had some T-shirts printed that said "I can see Russia from my Igloo"

'Nuff said.

Dave

[slim rem 7]

 hey brother dave.. i don t think i understand your post..i need to make some fresh coffee ,thats for sure..
 so tolerate me an elaborate as to the meaning of the last part of your post. im going to make the coffee an hope to read your answer when i get back..[really im going to make some coffee..] im normally not the greatest speller but ,,man im not hitting on all 8 at this time for some reason..
     dee i can assure you brother i do study the choices,, come voting time...
some folk vote for a candidate because he can sell himself well...
 i vote for one ,,if i agree with his opinions an i also do consider his affiliation..one would be foolish not to ,,as where ever his funding is coming from,, plays a big part in what his agenda will be...i will have to admit our choices were
 poor an none last time out..hence my question about paul.. i ll look into him ...but if he just splits the vote an
 doesn t have a chance of winning ..a vote for him ,,is almost like a vote for the guy i don t want in office..
at least thats my thinking at this time..
 as mr. harvey use to say i welcome anyones view..

[Redtail1949]

Third Party does not have a chance. Why? Money Plain and Simple! What was it the Demes War Chest Close to 200 mill and the Repubs 150 mill or so plus. As was stated if the Media does not get behind you to get the exposure of you out your done on the National level no matter if you have the money.

We are in bad trouble as a Nation and I really do not have a real clue as to how to save us.

[alsaqr]

I have no idea of what electing Republicans in the next election will accomplish. They proved themselves to be irresponsible the last time they had power. They wasted their mandate. Voting for republicans is just as stupid today as voting for democrats.

Exactly.  Despite all the promises, the Republicans did nothing for gun owners when the ran it all for several years.  They were too busy taking money from Jack Abramoff, demanding bribes and chasing little boys.  The Republicans in the white house and congress went too far and suddenly it was the turn of the Democrats to run it all.  Now the Republicans are reduced to whining just like the Democrats were for 8 years.   We have those folks who complain that Obama is a socialist while at the same time buying all that cheap trash from communist China.  We are paying for our own destruction at the hands of the Red Chinese army:  The Republicans and the Democrats in the white house and congress gave our economy to the communists.   

 
I'm tired of having a choice of two evils.   I will not vote for any evil, however slight.  If this requires that I write in the name of the guy at the car wash so be it.  The two political party have taken turns raping, pillaging, mortgaging, bartering and giving away this country.   

[Dee]

alsaqr, we are in complete and total agreement. If I am to celebrate defeat then at least I will not be ashamed to be seen with the company I am in.

[Graybeard]

Dee is right of course in that the differences between the two parties is minimal these days but there is still a difference in favor of the repubs tho it has become more of a time factor than anything else. still there are some good decent republicans in office and I'm not sure I can say the same of the dumocraps. They are in a minority for sure but some are still worth saving and holding onto.

The problem is that a group of super rich folks (damn I wish I knew just who they are but unlike TM7 I'm not sure) and mostly NOT Americans I think are in control. They own the media lock stock and barrel and for the most part own our politicians as well. Oh there are some I think not yet owned by them but it seems to be fewer after each election cycle. The bad thing is they also own the companies that make the machines that count the votes and yeah I have no doubt they can control the election outcome via those counting machines even if we vote to oust them.

Top that off with the fact that for generations now not just years those same folks have controlled the curriculum in our schools and our school kids have been brainwashed to believe the things these super rich folks want is in our best interest. They own the school teachers so now they own the minds of our kids.

They are the ones behind allowing all the illegals into this country as well. They want a huge class of folks too sorry to work for a living who are willing to register and vote for more handouts.

I believe that the media and the brain washing that’s been going on in schools for over 20 years now have dumbed down America and caused folks to become so liberal in their thinking that there is no turning back. Folks by the millions have become convinced it is the government’s job to care for them like their parents did as young children for the rest of their lives. They seem to forget that the government has no money of its own only what it takes from those who work. They’ve been convinced the money really comes from those evil big corporations and super rich when in fact it mostly comes from the average Joe taxpayer instead and all the corporations do is pass the tax cost down to us consumers so it’s really us not the corporations paying the taxes and those super rich dudes are the ones who own the corporations so in effect it’s not them only average Joe tax payer that foots the bill for those too sorry to work and earn a living.

The welfare class has become so large a voting block that those who work to earn a living cannot out vote them. The rich and super rich vote with that welfare class as well as it’s them who are pushing this agenda in the first place. For all those reasons we’re not ever gonna “vote them out” to solve the problem it can only be solved thru bloodshed or maybe by forcing enough states to with draw from the union and get by with it. That of course would require the military past and present to support state’s rights not the current group in power in DC. I honestly don’t think the current military will though some will I think most won’t.

They have almost got their way already. Our freedoms are already drastically reduced and each new session of congress takes more away. Soon it will be too late to reverse and if we let them take our guns it’s all gone. I doubt even now we’d win if it came to a war with those in charge to take back the country.

I have mixed concerns about such a plan really. While I am convinced that the best thing for the country long term is to end the union and reestablish a new one based on the same Constitution our founding fathers gave us merely replacing the people running things with new folks and the same old Constitution I realize such a thing happening would be disastrous for me personally. I’m retired federal civil service and ending the current government would end my income I worked my entire working life for. So if it happened and all federal pensions and social security ended as it would should what we all say we want took place then half or more of the folks in this country today would be broke and unable to afford the house they live in, the cars we drive or to put food on the table. Anyone drawing a military retirement, federal civil service retirement, railroad retirement, post office retirement, social security retirement or SSI check would suddenly have no such income. Folks that’s the majority of the folks in this country today. Not all of them would be broke without it but I dare say most would not be able to continue life as is without it. That is one big reason no one is willing to do what’s needed I think. They can’t see a way beyond their need for that check that would stop if what needs to happen for the long term health of the nation were to take place.

[Dee]

GB, I would agree with most all you said in your last post. When the founding fathers picked up the rifle, they were fully aware that they stood to loose everything, and although they won, some lost everything anyway. Sacrifice for the good of country, is not on the agenda of the modern day young man as a general rule, save the soldier whom has bought the promise of perpetual health care as a veteran and free college.
They, since WWII, have been badly used for political purposes and nation building programs which have all ended in failure.
Secession from the union is the solution, but at a cost most are not willing to pay. At 60 years old, I am still willing to fight rather than be herded around at bayonet point, and dictated to what I can, and can not do. But then again I have always pushed back when pushed. Maybe it is more of an attitude than patriotism. I simply do not care for aristocracy in any form.

[mechanic]

Dee, you and I have similar attitudes.  I gladly give when asked.  If someone decides to "take" they have a fight on their hands.  I'm tired of having to analyze my every move to be sure I'm not violating some law, local or otherwise.  I bought a 100 year old house over a year ago, and am now in the process of painting it.  Some group stopped by that has a government grant to "refurbish and revitalize" the neighborhood and told me my very conservative paint colors did not meet their standards.  I gave them one minute to get across the side walk, and told them any further interference would result in my house being purple and lime green.  My house has never been owned by this group, and if they want it they will pay dearly.  I just don't like being told what to do, when it's my own business.

As I see the current trend shaping up, the gov. will tell us we will have to have healthcare, not the type of our choosing, but thiers.  They will tell us how hot or cold we can keep our house.  They will regulat how much energy we can use.  What kind of car we can drive.  I'm fed up.

I've lived my own life and taken care of my own for all my life.  They can leave me alone or kill me.  Right now it doesn't much matter which.

[Fazak]

I wouldn't worry too much about who to vote for.

The country is well along in the boiling down process. Nobody is going to be able to stop it from doing so, and the worst that can happen is,..somebody gets elected that moves the process along a little faster.

Look on the bright side.

The government has messed around until it has crashed itself.

It's crashed the people along with it. But there's really nothing left but ashes at this point anyway.

With a little luck,..maybe something will rise up from those ashes which truly puts the will of the people first, for a change.

If not, we'll be no worse off than we are right now.

A good read:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski192.html

An excerpt:

The republic is dead. Not sick, not dying, not failing, or in a gradual decline, not waiting to be resuscitated, but already stone cold dead.

This death probably occurred as we began to win the Cold War, but long before we realized we had prevailed. The professionalization of politics, of military and bureaucratic service to the state, of foreign policy making, and of business seems to have completely done in the old ideas. Simply federated, decentralized, self-depreciating government that once feared the people has self-actualized into a contemptuous, rapacious and iron-fisted murderer of freedom, and murderer of men.
_______________________________________________________

Recognition of reality is liberating. When Jesus said, "the Truth will set you free," I’m not sure he was directly speaking of the governments of men. But recognizing the unreality of a once treasured concept – in our American case, a vibrant past and future republic, may in fact free us to do what we need to do.

"And what is that, exactly?" you ask.

Recognize that the republic is dead, and that we owe its rotting bloated corpse no loyalty whatsoever.
________________________________________________________

We face a modern American state more overweening and dictatorial than even King George III could imagine, yet we have no declaration of independence, no privileged elite to demand it, no interested population to read and debate it. This time, our declaration will be made individually, every day, in calm desperate fearlessness, as we simply live free.