Author Topic: Do you FL Size New Brass?  (Read 1013 times)

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Offline Minnesota1

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Do you FL Size New Brass?
« on: September 27, 2009, 01:53:15 PM »
I always have and I never thought to much about it but I was wondering if it is necessary or if I'm just wasting my time.  I have some new rifle brass and will be using some in bolt guns and some for my Encores.  What's your opinion/experiences?  I know this is probably a dumb question as I've reloaded for 10 years or so now but I've used a lot of 1 x fired brass that I always re-size but I thought on new brass I wouldn't need to.

Thanks.

Offline Halwg

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2009, 01:58:04 PM »
In my opinion, you should FL size new brass.  A lot of it is misshapen or out of round, so it should be sized.
The older I get...The better I was.

Offline Autorim

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2009, 02:25:34 PM »
I don't think it is necessary to full length size. but you do need to size the neck enough to get it round and with a uniform bullet pull. I always check for length and chamfer the deburr.

Offline john keyes

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2009, 02:37:00 PM »
I do not. 
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2009, 05:05:29 PM »
I don't know but I do, makes me feel better. 8)
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2009, 05:08:41 PM »
I necksize if needed,if not,I use as is

Offline wncchester

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 02:36:14 AM »
"Do you FL Size New Brass? "

Is it necessary?  Certainly not.  But, it's inexpensive, I already have the tools and it's really easy. 

Results?  All it can do is insure that it's as uniform as possible before loading it the first time.  Each sizing after that only continues to insure that it's the same size.   Why not size it??
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline yooper77

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 03:04:02 AM »
I full length size new or once fired pistol or rifle brass.  (I have had in the past too many cracked neck from so called once fired brass, so I anneal once fired rifle brass, before I full length size, since I do not know the true history and the neck cracks disappeared).

I check length and trim along with inside outside chamber, clean primer pockets.

I also manual weight each and every powder charge for rifle or pistol.

Reloading is not a chore for me, it’s a hobby and I take pride in my process.

yooper77

Offline Anduril

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 08:22:52 AM »
always.
..

Offline Swampman

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 09:40:36 AM »
Yes to ensure uniformity.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline charles p

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 11:24:09 AM »
I always do.  Once found an incorrect headstamp in a bag of new factory brass.  The incorrect cartridge went through the factory die and resulted in a headstamp that was for one cartridge, and a case that was sized for another.  The resulting neck was way too short for what it was supposed to be.  I found it when I was FL sizing the brass.  The correct cartridge was 300 WSM and the odd case was a 243 WSSM run through a 300 WSM machine.  Probably happened when Winchester was changing the production and the machine was not cleared of the last 243 WSSM case.  Might have been an outsourced job.  Stuff happens.

Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2009, 12:19:26 PM »
Well, awhile back this same topic was address, with some folk being very pointed about NOT doing so.

However, I once took a batch of new 270 winchester brass - winchester made cases - and loaded a number of boxes of ammo with these new cases.

Oooooooops!  Although new, the case necks were over sized and un-able to hold the seated bullets firmly.

So, because of the hassle of having to deal with this situation, and the fact that there are now a fair number of out of round case necks - I think more now then years back - I make it a practice to size all new RIFLE brass before loading.

It is just my way of doing it and my reasons, so to keep the fellow posters from being overly upset about my sizing new brass, they can put it to my being an Ol'Coot and set in my ways.

Keep em coming!

CDOC
300 Winmag

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2009, 01:56:10 PM »
I do not full length size new cases. I do check necks however. In bulk packed boxes/bags, necks can be out of round or dented some times. If I find them that way, I run them through a neck sizer to straighten them out. Some of my cases are formed from other brass, so they do get full length sized and then some. I have never had a case that was over sized for the chamber so I do not want to squeeze it down and the fire it back out. Mostly I neck size all my bottle necked cases until they start giving me resistance cambering, then I only bump back the shoulder enough to chamber easily again, I do not full length size unless it is a 22 Hornet or some other case with a long sloping shoulder. I used to full length size when I first started to reload, because that what was advised. I found I was not doing a whole lot, so I did not full length size for 1 batch and they turned out fine, so I do not full length size new brass any more. Of course anyone can do what they want. I just have not had a problem with it. I forgot 1 thing. I do run a couple of cases into the chamber, just to make sure they fit, they always do. Reloading is a hobby to me and I like to reload, I clean primer pockets and I de-prime in a separate operation, I use electronic scales, I use a single stage press so it is not like I try to get out of being fussy. I just do not like to work brass unless I have to and then no more than I have to. Good Luck and Good Shooting
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Offline kynardsj

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2009, 02:01:13 PM »
I size them just like brass that's been fired but that's just me. I want zero problems with my ammo when I load it in my guns and this just gives me peace of mind about it.
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you rejoice.

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2009, 12:15:00 AM »
Well, awhile back this same topic was address, with some folk being very pointed about NOT doing so.

I ALWAYS do. I'm also one of those who, trims, uniforms primer pockets and deburrs flash holes (As required)...

CW
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Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2009, 03:10:56 AM »
This reloading unsized new brass subject has been run into the ground on this and other forums more times than I care to remember.  I will resubmit the following thread:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,170429.0.html


Offline Ron T.

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2009, 04:37:05 AM »
I'm an accuracy "nut"... and new brass, resized or not, doesn't fit a rifle's chamber as good as it will after it is once fired.

With that in mind, I normally seat a primer, put a medium charge of powder in the case and add the bullet seated out to the standard maximum overall length and take it to the range along with the rifle in which I'm gonna use that brass and shoot it to "fire-form" the new case to my rifle's chamber.

THEN... I take the brass home and neck size it ONLY (for a bolt action or single shot rifle) and "accurize" the once-fired brass.

"Accurizing" (for me) consists of uniforming the primer pocket, getting rid of the "sprue" inside the case created when the factory "punched out" the flash-hole and trimming the neck of the case to "minimum case length".  The last step is to chamfer the inside/outside of the mouth of the case... and then, the case is ready-to-load with a "serious" load... either an "accuracy" load or a "hunting" load, depending on what I need at the time.

If this is for a rifle for which I've already determined how deep to seat the bullet, my bullet seating die is already set for that over-all cartridge length.  If this is a new rifle or if I haven't played around with the bullet seating depth, NOW is the time to do that!

I start the bullet seating routine by finding out what length the overall cartridge will be when the bullet "just touches" the lands & grroves.  Once that is determined (for a new rifle), I load 10 rounds which will yield two 5-shot groups with the bullet seated .010" (10/1000ths of an inch) off the lands & grooves, 10 rounds with the bullet seated .015" off the lands & grooves, 10 rounds with the bullet seated .020" off the lands and grooves, 10 rounds with the bullets seated .025" off the lands & grooves, 10 rounds at .030" off, 10 rounds at .035" off and finally, 10 rounds at .040" off the lands and grooves.

Naturally, this assumes you have picked out a given amount of a given (proven?) powder as a "starting load" and worked up to the most accurate load you can get given the purpose of the load (hunting or shooting paper).

Very rarely will a rifle shoot its most accurate with a bullet seated any further than .040" (40/1000ths of an inch) off the lands and grooves, but with any individual rifle, anything is possible!

Remember... the purpose of doing this is to determine the ABSOLUTELY most accurate round with a given bullet depth.  Due to the rifle's magazine (if it's a bolt-action), you may NOT be able to seat ALL the bullets for a particular rifle just .010" off the lands and grooves because the rounds may end up being too long and won't work through the rifle's magazine.

HOWEVER, you can insert the initial round in the rifle's chamber by hand... and this round will be the first round you'll fire at the game.  Therefore, due to the rifle's preference for that seating depth, it will be your most accurate round and your first shot.  Naturally, you'll need to keep that round separated from the other rounds since that round probably won't fit and work through your rifle's magazine.

All subsequent rounds will necessarily need to be at maximum overall cartridge length unless you've determined that a particular rifle "likes" its bullets seated deeper than the maximum over-all cartridge length, but this is rare.

If you're loading for a varmint rifle, you may be able to single-load every round, depending on what varmint you're hunting.  Eastern varmint hunting is generally much, much less shooting than western prairie dog hunts... so load according to the kind of shooting you'll be doing... i.e., "rapid" or "slow" shooting.

Working up initial loads for a rifle is a slow process since you should allow the rifle's barrel to cool down between shots because most sporting-type rifles won't shoot to the same point of aim with both a hot or cold barrel.  But taking your time and doing it "right" is part of the "right-of-passage" in load development... and once you've absolutely determined "THE" single best load for a given rifle, you'll never have to do it again unless you make changes in the barrel's and/or action's bedding... or you change one or more of the components in your reloads.

If you're one of those fellas who is always in a big hurry, shoot factory loads.  They'll probably shoot as well as any "hurry-up" load you might otherwise develop.  A half-century of reloading and bench-rest shooting has taught me that.

BTW, there's a good many more things you can do to the cartridge cases to make them somewhat more accurate, but I've found through experience that the basic items I mentioned do the MOST good.  But weighing your bullets can make a difference in most cases.  However, today's bullet manufacturers are doing a much better job than they did a few decades ago... and these new plastic-tipped bullets shoot as accurately as the older "match" bullets use to shoot.

Ain't "progress" wonderful?   :grin:


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Offline Retsof

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2009, 06:23:08 AM »
No, I do not, though I've only been reloading for about 2 years and only load for 1 caliber at present. Also, my reloads are strictly for hunting, where a 200 yard shoot is indeed a long one (as evidenced by the fact that to-date, the farthest I've shot a deer is at 120 yards). Thus, far, I've had no issues with the reloaded ammo fitting in my chamber and I've been able to easily get 1.5" 5-shot groups at 100 yards. So, this will do nicely for my purpose. However, with new brass I do use a Lyman "M" die to round out the necks, then trim to length and finally chamfer and debur before priming, adding powder and seating a bullet. It will be interesting to see the difference in accuracy, once I begin to partial full length resize. Any accuracy improvements would be nice but not necessary for my purpose.

Offline Tommyt

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2009, 08:55:31 AM »
I always have and I never thought to much about it but I was wondering if it is necessary or if I'm just wasting my time.  I have some new rifle brass and will be using some in bolt guns and some for my Encores.  What's your opinion/experiences?  I know this is probably a dumb question as I've reloaded for 10 years or so now but I've used a lot of 1 x fired brass that I always re-size but I thought on new brass I wouldn't need to.

Thanks.

Same here I just do it
Part of reloading is sizing I think

Tommyt


Offline 223Shooter

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Re: Do you FL Size New Brass?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2009, 03:55:19 PM »
I always full length size new brass. After that, I use the Lee collet die. Works great for my 30-30....35 Rem and 30-06 rifles.