Author Topic: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban  (Read 835 times)

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Offline victorcharlie

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Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« on: September 30, 2009, 01:49:56 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090930/ap_on_go_su_co/us_supreme_court_guns

  By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer Mark Sherman, Associated Press Writer   – 2 hrs 22 mins ago

WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court says it will take up a challenge to Chicago's ban on handguns, opening the way for a ruling that could set off a vigorous new campaign to roll back state and local gun controls across the nation.

Victory for gun-rights proponents in the Chicago case is considered likely, even by supporters of gun control, in the latest battle in the nation's long and often bitter dispute over the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. A ruling against the city's outright ban could lead to legal challenges to less-restrictive laws across the country that limit who can own guns, whether firearms must be registered and how they should be stored.

The case is to be argued early next year.

Last year, the justices struck down a prohibition on handguns in the District of Columbia, a city with unique federal status, as a violation of the Second Amendment. Now the court will decide whether that ruling should apply to local and state laws as well.

The court has previously said that most, but not all, rights laid out in the Constitution's Bill of Rights serve as checks on state as well as federal restrictions. Separately, 44 state constitutions already enshrine gun rights.

Though faced with potential limits from the high court on their ability to enact laws and regulations in this area, 34 states weighed in on the gun- rights side before the justices agreed to take the case Wednesday, an indication of the enduring strength of the National Rifle Association and its allies.

The gun case was among several the court added to its docket for the term that begins Monday. Others include:

• A challenge to part of a law that makes it a crime to provide financial and other aid to any group designated a terrorist organization.

• A dispute over when new, harsher penalties can be given to sex offenders who don't register with state sex offender databases.

• Whether to throw out a human rights lawsuit against a former prime minister of Somalia who is accused of overseeing killings and other atrocities. The issue is whether a federal law gives the former official, Mohamed Ali Samantar, immunity from lawsuits in U.S. courts.

In the gun case, outright handgun bans appear to be limited to Chicago and suburban Oak Park, Ill. But a ruling against those ordinances probably would "open up all the gun regulations in the country to constitutional scrutiny, of which there are quite a few," said Mark Tushnet, a Harvard Law School professor whose recent book "Out of Range" explores the often bitter national debate over guns.

Already, Alan Gura, who led the legal challenge to the Washington law and represents the plaintiff in Chicago, is suing to overturn the District of Columbia's prohibition on carrying firearms outside a person's home. Illinois and Wisconsin have similar restrictions.

In voiding Washington's handgun ban last year, Justice Antonin Scalia suggested that gun rights, like the right to speech, are limited and that many gun control measures could remain in place.

Ultimately, said Tushnet, the court will have to decide, possibly restriction by restriction, which limits are reasonable.

"It's very hard to know where this court would draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable," he said.

NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said he hopes the court rules that "core fundamental freedoms like speech, religion and, we believe, the right to keep and bear arms are intended to apply to every individual in the country."

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said the court's decision to take up the new case was unsurprising in light of last year's ruling.

These cases should "take the extremes off the table," Helmke said, referring to bans on guns and unlimited gun rights. "What's critical for us is how the court goes about fleshing out what the limits are."

The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago had upheld the gun bans as legitimate expressions of local and state rights.

Judge Frank Easterbrook, an appointee of President Ronald Reagan, wrote in the ruling that "the Constitution establishes a federal republic where local differences are to be cherished as elements of liberty rather than extirpated in order to produce a single, nationally applicable rule."

"Federalism is an older and more deeply rooted tradition than is a right to carry any particular kind of weapon," Easterbrook wrote.

Evaluating arguments over the extension of the Second Amendment is a job "for the justices rather than a court of appeals," he said.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor, then an appeals court judge, was part of a three-judge panel in New York that reached a similar conclusion in January.

The high court took the suggestion Wednesday.

Judges on both courts — Republican nominees in Chicago and Democratic nominees in New York — said only the Supreme Court could decide whether to extend last year's ruling throughout the country.

The New York ruling also has been challenged, but the court did not act on it Wednesday. Sotomayor would have to sit out any case involving decisions she was part of on the appeals court. Although the issue is the same in the Chicago case, there is no ethical bar to her participation in its consideration by the Supreme Court.

She replaced Justice David Souter, who dissented in the 5-4 Washington case, so the five-justice majority remains intact.

Several Republican senators cited the Sotomayor gun ruling, as well as her reticence on the topic at her confirmation hearing, in explaining their decision to oppose her confirmation to the high court.

The case is McDonald v. Chicago, 08-1521.

(This version CORRECTS that Sotomayor replaced Souter)
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Questor

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 03:46:05 PM »
Last time it was 5-4 in favor of individual rights. Now it will be 4-5 against individual rights. Period.
Safety first

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 04:05:13 PM »
the balance of the court has not changed and unfortunately there are still people on it that can neither read or understand the English language
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2009, 05:54:34 PM »
A great legal analysis of the issue.  It's nowhere near as simple as some of you assume.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/analysis-making-rights-grow/#more-11356

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2009, 07:11:40 PM »
I guess it would depend on if the state of Illinois has a ''Right to bear arms'' in their state constitution, like here in Ohio. Then it would depend if they also had a preemption law. Then, basically, Chicago is screwed. Case closed.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Online Casull

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2009, 08:26:05 PM »
Quote
A great legal analysis of the issue.  It's nowhere near as simple as some of you assume.

It should certainly be simpler than the decision to make abortion a right, inasmuch as that is something that doesn't even have a basis in the Constitution (except through a convoluted piece of bad legal reasoning).   ::)
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Yankee1

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2009, 08:48:43 PM »
By the time the lawyers get through with their convoluted interpretations of the laws its any body's guess how it will turn out.
After all they stretched the 10th amendment transportation clause to give health care control to the Federal Government.
And the people are doing nothing about it.  If the people don't take time to read their constitution they will lose all their rights.
                                        Yankee1

Offline ToadHill

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2009, 08:44:59 AM »
The feds will do what they want.  As I understand it, the constitution gives the feds the right to regulate interstate commerce, and provide for the common defence.  Just look what we and out ancestors have allowed them to control with no constitutional language changes.
I can't control my day, but I can control my attitude.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2009, 08:49:14 AM »
By the time the lawyers get through with their convoluted interpretations of the laws its any body's guess how it will turn out.
After all they stretched the 10th amendment transportation clause to give health care control to the Federal Government.
And the people are doing nothing about it.  If the people don't take time to read their constitution they will lose all their rights.
                                        Yankee1
Might check the language there.  The 10th amendment DOES NOT have a, "transportation clause".

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2009, 08:51:07 AM »
The feds will do what they want.  As I understand it, the constitution gives the feds the right to regulate interstate commerce, and provide for the common defence.  Just look what we and out ancestors have allowed them to control with no constitutional language changes.
This is not an interstate commerce case.  Seriously, read the link, educate yourselves.  If you think you are a supporter of the second amendment you owe it to yourself and your children to learn what the hell is going on and not just throw semi-knowledge out there as facts...

Offline jimster

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2009, 09:04:05 AM »
Hate to say it but even if the high courts at the fed level rule in favor of the guns there, Chicago will still do everything in their power to keep it so restrictive it won't be worth much.  Look at D.C.  Chicago needs to be changed from within the legislative branch in that state, only the people can do that.
If they change from within the feds would not have to be involved.  The people in Chicago did this to themselves long ago. I wish them luck, but that state will regulate the crap out of them so much nobody will be able to use them even if they win a high court ruling.  The high court won't interfere with any regulations of the state either.  States have rights.

Offline Yankee1

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2009, 09:13:28 AM »
The 10th retains rights not specified to be kept by the people.
However the Federal Government decided to take those rights away by using the transportation clause interpretation to say that because people travel between states that the transportation clause should allow the government to handle health care. I say that is really stretching it.  Well Dukkillr did I clear up the intentions of my statement to your satisfaction?
                                   Yankee1

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2009, 09:23:52 AM »
The 10th retains rights not specified to be kept by the people.
However the Federal Government decided to take those rights away by using the transportation clause interpretation to say that because people travel between states that the transportation clause should allow the government to handle health care. I say that is really stretching it.  Well Dukkillr did I clear up the intentions of my statement to your satisfaction?
                                   Yankee1
I don't disagree, and if healthcare change comes about I suspect you will see a challenge based on the commerce clause [Article 1, section 8] - that is not an issue in this case. 

Offline The Hermit

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2009, 03:52:40 PM »
My concern is how that "wise latino woman" is going to see the gun control issue now that she was confirmed. We will find out if she lied during confirmation hearings. She wouldn't lie to us, right?
God protect our constitution, you know the government won't.



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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2009, 04:00:20 PM »
Sotomayor replaced Ginsberg same from one to another
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2009, 04:08:51 PM »
My concern is how that "wise latino woman" is going to see the gun control issue now that she was confirmed. We will find out if she lied during confirmation hearings. She wouldn't lie to us, right?
God protect our constitution, you know the government won't.



   The Hermit
Dear god.  Seriously, read the link.  Knowledge is a great thing.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2009, 04:09:42 PM »
Sotomayor replaced Ginsberg same from one to another
yup

Offline mauser98us

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2009, 06:16:40 PM »
What makes this scary is I beleive the court will assert states rights to ban firearms ownership. This will trickle down to counties and cities,giving local authority the power to do what ever they like.The decision last year only apllies the Washington DC, a federal military district. I think we are in big trouble my friends.

Offline BBF

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2009, 06:59:40 PM »
Umm, guys, Sotomayor did not replace Ginsberg, that one is still there. ;)
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2009, 07:05:09 PM »
Umm, guys, Sotomayor did not replace Ginsberg, that one is still there. ;)
whoops... Souter... but the point is still valid, she'll vote the way he did.

Offline BBF

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2009, 08:25:58 AM »
  No doubt about that.

BTW I like Becks new saying. WWSD :D :D    " What would Sotomayor Do"
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2009, 08:50:23 AM »
The can of worms is being turned upside down . If the court finds on the side of the gun owners in might be bitter sweet . Every time a case is decided new laws come forth to control weapons and fit the new court decision . It seems some think that at some point we will be allowed to own and tote any weapon we want anywhere we want . The law and the second amd. is like sharpening a pencil the more we go to court the sharper or smaller the point gets . IE what kind of arms can we keep and bear ? and where and when can we keep and bear them ?
This is an example of when a little knowlege can truely get you in trouble .
 Today there places we can go that allow us more freedon with guns than other places . Va allows automatic weapons other states do not what happens if a Federal court rules no more AW's ? Or a court rules a certian type weapon is illegal now ? The closer the law gets alike everywhere the danger exist that it will get stricter for all .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2009, 08:53:06 AM »
The can of worms is being turned upside down . If the court finds on the side of the gun owners in might be bitter sweet . Every time a case is decided new laws come forth to control weapons and fit the new court decision . It seems some think that at some point we will be allowed to own and tote any weapon we want anywhere we want . The law and the second amd. is like sharpening a pencil the more we go to court the sharper or smaller the point gets . IE what kind of arms can we keep and bear ? and where and when can we keep and bear them ?
This is an example of when a little knowlege can truely get you in trouble .
 Today there places we can go that allow us more freedon with guns than other places . Va allows automatic weapons other states do not what happens if a Federal court rules no more AW's ? Or a court rules a certian type weapon is illegal now ? The closer the law gets alike everywhere the danger exist that it will get stricter for all .
So you are advocating that we leave the Chicago ban in place?  That it is a mistake to challenge the law?

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Supreme Court to hear Challenge to Chicago handgun ban
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2009, 09:06:44 AM »
Nope not at all . I advocate not thinking we will only win . I advocate we decide what we as gun owners are willing to give up if we decide to go to court . I see court as half the battle , I see congress as the other half .
 Suppose we get nation wide carry , that would be great ! suppose some speical standards  are added we must all meet maybe a federal tax .
 I ask do you ( with much more experince than I ) expect smooth sailing thru. the court system ? Will it not be give and take ? Do you or anyone expect all limitations to be removed from weapons ownership ?
I advocate we choose our battles wisely .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !