Author Topic: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here  (Read 668 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline crustaceous

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 348
  • Gender: Male
  • back for a limited engagement
Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« on: September 30, 2009, 05:39:33 PM »
Swiss Health Care Thrives Without Public Option
NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
Published: September 30, 2009

ZURICH — Like every other country in Europe, Switzerland guarantees health care for all its citizens. But the system here does not remotely resemble the model of bureaucratic, socialized medicine often cited by opponents of universal coverage in the United States.
Swiss private insurers are required to offer coverage to all citizens, regardless of age or medical history. And those people, in turn, are obligated to buy health insurance.

That is why many academics who have studied the Swiss health care system have pointed to this Alpine nation of about 7.5 million as a model that delivers much of what Washington is aiming to accomplish — without the contentious option of a government-run health insurance plan.

In Congress, the Senate Finance Committee is dealing with legislation proposed by its chairman, Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana, which would require nearly all Americans to buy health insurance, but stops short of the government-run insurance option that is still strongly supported by liberal Democrats.

Two amendments that would have added a public option to the Baucus bill were voted down on Tuesday. But another Senate bill, like the House versions, calls for a public insurance option.

By many measures, the Swiss are healthier than Americans, and surveys indicate that Swiss people are generally happy with their system. Switzerland, moreover, provides high-quality care at costs well below what the United States spends per person. Swiss insurance companies offer the mandatory basic plan on a not-for-profit basis, although they are permitted to earn a profit on supplemental plans.

And yet, as a potential model for the United States, the Swiss health care system involves some important trade-offs that American consumers, insurers and health care providers might find hard to swallow.

The Swiss government does not “ration care” — that populist bogeyman in the American debate — but it does keep down overall spending by regulating drug prices and fees for lab tests and medical devices. It also requires patients to share some costs — at a higher level than in the United States — so they have an incentive to avoid unnecessary treatments. And some doctors grumble that cost controls are making it harder these days for a physician to make a franc.

The Swiss government also provides direct cash subsidies to people if health insurance equals more than 8 percent of personal income, and about 35 to 40 percent of households get some form of subsidy. In some cases, employers contribute part of the insurance premium, but, unlike in the United States, they do not receive a tax break for it. (All the health care proposals in Congress would provide a subsidy to moderate-income Americans.)

Unlike the United States, where the Medicare program for the elderly costs taxpayers about $500 billion a year, Switzerland has no special break for older Swiss people beyond the general subsidy.

“Switzerland’s health care system is different from virtually every other country in the world,” said Regina Herzlinger, a Harvard Business School professor who has studied the Swiss approach extensively.

“What I like about it is that it’s got universal coverage, it’s customer driven, and there are no intermediaries shopping on people’s behalf,” she added. “And there’s no waiting lists or rationing.”

Since being made mandatory in 1996, the Swiss system has become a popular model for experts seeking alternatives to government-run health care. Indeed, it has attracted some unlikely American admirers, like Bill O’Reilly, the Fox News talk show host. And it has lured some members of Congress on fact-finding trips here to seek ideas for overhauling the United States system.

The Swiss approach is also popular with patients like Frieda Burgstaller, 72, who says she likes the freedom of choice and access that the private system provides. “If the doctor says it has to be done, it’s done,” said Mrs. Burgstaller. “You don’t wait. And it’s covered.”

While many patients seem content, the burdens fall more heavily on doctors, especially general practitioners and pediatricians.

Dr. Gerlinde Schurter, Mrs. Burgstaller’s physician, says she feels squeezed by government regulators and insurance companies that have fought to hold down costs — most recently with a 15 percent cut in lab fees that forced her five-member group to lay off its principal technician.

Dr. Schurter also fears a so-called blue letter, a warning from an insurance company that she is prescribing too many drugs or expensive procedures.

If doctors cannot justify their treatments, they can be forced to repay insurers for a portion of the medical services prescribed. And while prescriptions are covered, the government has insisted that consumers fork over a 20 percent co-payment if they want brand-name drugs, rather than 10 percent for generics.

Similarly, the government health office also lowered reimbursements across the board for medical devices in 2006.

These are among the reasons health care costs consume 10.8 percent of gross domestic product in Switzerland, compared with 16 percent in the United States, the highest level of spending among industrial countries, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

Still, along with lower costs and the freedom to choose doctors come bigger bills for individual patients. On average, out-of-pocket payments come to $1,350 annually. That is the highest among the 30 countries tracked by the O.E.C.D. and well above the $890 average for the United States, which comes in second.

Then there are the hefty prices of the insurance policies themselves, which can top 14,000 Swiss francs a year for a family of four in Zurich, or about $13,600. That is roughly comparable to the national average annual premium for a family policy under employer-sponsored group plans in the United States, but in high-cost American cities the figure can be much higher.

Direct comparisons are hard to make, however, because in the American system, employers and employees share the cost of premiums, which are also exempt from individual and corporate income taxes.

Nevertheless, Swiss citizens relish the lack of bureaucracy, especially compared with systems in Britain and Germany, even if their doctors grumble.

As in the United States, practitioners typically are paid on a fee-for-service basis, rather than on salary. But they make less than their American counterparts. According to the O.E.C.D., specialists in Switzerland earn three times more than the nation’s average wage, compared with 5.6 times for American specialists. General practitioners in Switzerland make 2.7 times more than the average wage, versus 3.7 in the United States.

That is partly because the Swiss health insurers are not shy about using their muscle with physicians.

Pius Gyger, director of health economics and health policy at Helsana, the country’s biggest insurer, cannot suppress a smile when asked about the effectiveness of the so-called blue letters.

“If there’s something strange, we knock at the doctor’s door,” he said. “For doctors, it’s an incentive to treat economically, but often perceived as a threat.”

He estimates that only about 3 percent of doctors get the letters and that fewer than 1 percent actually have to return money. Still, Mr. Gyger said, “it’s an easy exercise for us and it has an effect.”

Despite pressure on general practitioners, hospital physicians like Edouard Battegay at the University of Zurich say universal coverage also lowers costs by reducing emergency room visits.

Indeed, his E.R. is as quiet and efficient as a Swiss watch, and he still expresses amazement at what he saw when he worked briefly in Seattle.

“I’ve seen things in the U.S. that I’ve never seen here; it was a state of disaster,” he said. “Chronic disease management is better here. If you don’t treat hypertension, you treat strokes. Not treating patients is expensive.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health/policy/01swiss.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all

And even Dr. Schurter — who says her income has been flat for the last five years — praises the virtues of the Swiss system for patients struck by catastrophe.

When her daughter was found to have leukemia seven years ago, “I never worried for a second how and if she’d get treatment and if it would be paid for,” she said. “All was granted as naturally as the air we breathe.”


Offline mirage1988

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 05:41:02 PM »
Is Switzerland due north of Mexico?

-nuff said!

Offline torpedoman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2574
  • Gender: Male
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 06:25:40 PM »
the problem is not health care it is lawyers who are on t.v. every 15 minutes trying to get you to sue your dr. , hospital, drug company, The paper boy etc etc... Loose the lawyers health care magically will cure itself.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26939
  • Gender: Male
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 12:31:16 AM »
Might sound great on the surface to say ALL must buy health insurance and all insurance companies MUST sell it to everyone. BUT the reality is that some folks barely have enough money to keep a roof over their heads and food in their belly and there is no money left for insurance. Hell some don't even have a roof over their heads these days.

Government needs to get the hell out of our personal day to day lives and get back to doing what the Constitution gives them authority to do and nothing more.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline The Hermit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 722
  • Gender: Male
  • Security is the ability to take care of yourself.
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 04:39:08 PM »
The whole tax structure in Switzerland is way better than ours, thus they can afford their health coverage. We are taxed and controlled to death.


         The Hermit

Offline rak55

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 08:13:55 PM »
the problem with any healthcare plan that requires the people to buy in is that some people have no money to buy in to a plan of any sort and need it for free, so there be it you'll always have people taking the free ride in america on the rest of US.

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 03:30:34 AM »
Yeah, I'm wondering how many illegal Mexicans, Central Americans, Russians, Africans and home-grown indigents Switzerland has to provide free health-care for.
Swingem

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2009, 08:51:23 AM »
The whole tax structure in Switzerland is way better than ours, thus they can afford their health coverage. We are taxed and controlled to death.


         The Hermit
Are you making the argument that the Swiss have less taxes and regulations than we do?

Offline The Hermit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 722
  • Gender: Male
  • Security is the ability to take care of yourself.
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 03:40:44 PM »
For one thing, the swiss don't have to pay a capital gains tax like we do here. Their accounts are taxed at less than 1% by the bank or holding institution, and the money given directly to the government. Thus the swiss have financial privacy. This lower rate gives the majority of them more disposable income.
Compared to our tax & fee structure, there are less folks here who can afford the coming health care mess. Today it was announced that medicare will be charging more for drugs for seniors under the Obama health care plan. Not the case in Switzerland. I am not saying that there are no swiss struggleing to pay their bills. When I was there, they had their share of street indigents too.


   The Hermit

 

Offline bobg

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
  • Gender: Male
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 04:22:44 PM »
  That is the way i feel Bill. I think it is great when you say it like it is.  ;D
           bobg

Offline The Hermit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 722
  • Gender: Male
  • Security is the ability to take care of yourself.
Re: Swiss health care- might be some lessons here
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2009, 02:16:49 PM »
TM7, I agree. The decision to have health care insurance or not, should be left to the individual.
Obama says you can keep your current insurance and doctor, so if thats the case, why can't a person who decides not to have insurance or can't afford it, be penalized? Indigents, illegals etc. will still be all served. No service will be denied to anyone. Its socialism, pure and simple.
Hospitals are getting a free ride. They already made a deal with the Dems to cut back charges, ya right, trust us.


    The Hermit