Author Topic: 45 LC or 44 magnum Rossi lever gun? (Read 6388 times)

jimster · « **Reply #30 on:** November 12, 2009, 04:47:58 AM »

Mr Hawks is mistaken about 45 Colt brass.

Yep...he must be. When I was younger and into experimenting with the hotter 45 colt loads I had no problem with the brass, except in over size chambers (some older Rugers), which is not the fault of the brass. Far as moderate loads, I lost track of how many times I've reloaded them, I figuring moderate means about 900 fps or so in a revolver...not sure what Hawks thinks moderate is. I think the stories about 45 colt brass being weak is just a myth.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #31 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:57:06 AM »

???I don't know who you guys are referring to as Mr. Hawks but since my ID includes "hawk" in it, I guess you mean me.

Well, if you go back and READ what I wrote, you'll find that I SAID that I've reloaded my brass for years and years and have yet to see it fail even with moderately heavy loads. I'm talking that the same 1600 rounds of brass has thus far been loaded roughly 8 or more times each with pistol velocities of 1,300 fps with a 255g bullet.

If you are referring to me, then at least READ what I wrote!
Thank you!

jimster · « **Reply #32 on:** November 12, 2009, 10:36:18 AM »

I thought they were taking about Chuck Hawks....not you.

But I'm not the brightest star when it comes to reading an figuring out what people are talking about either. Chuck Hawks has written lots of stuff. I figured it was about him.

appologies for anything I might have said that might have pointed to you.

Jim

Warhawk · « **Reply #33 on:** November 12, 2009, 04:15:09 PM »

Quote from: Blackhawker on November 12, 2009, 06:57:06 AM

???I don't know who you guys are referring to as Mr. Hawks but since my ID includes "hawk" in it, I guess you mean me.
Well, if you go back and READ what I wrote, you'll find that I SAID that I've reloaded my brass for years and years and have yet to see it fail even with moderately heavy loads. I'm talking that the same 1600 rounds of brass has thus far been loaded roughly 8 or more times each with pistol velocities of 1,300 fps with a 255g bullet.

If you are referring to me, then at least READ what I wrote!
Thank you!

Chuck Hawks, An online gun expert who's advice is so valuable he makes you pay to read it!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/

Blackhawker · « **Reply #34 on:** November 13, 2009, 03:36:53 AM »

Ahhhh, sorry for the mix-up.
I agree, his advice is "SO" helpful! (snickers) On some topics he's pretty good but I agree, his take on the 45 Colt is not the "popular" stance taken when it comes to reloading it. There are better sources for the 45 Colt, but, it is good to read varying views too sometimes.

No apologies need jimster, it was an honest misunderstanding.

Eric45 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:20:05 AM »

New to the group today but wanted to get in my two cents. I have several 45 Colt guns and two 454's. Hot loaded 45 brass from my Blackhawk is good (Starline or Federal) for at least 10 loads. One time through the Rossi M92 is all I ask. The brass is just battered; mouth and rim.
I have never hunted with a 44 Magnum, but the hot 45 loads absolutely flatten moose and brown bear. Believe that placement is #1, above power and penetration. I got my biggest moose 30 some years ago with one shot from a .357 4 inch Python; I was to young to realize that it wouldn't work!

AtlLaw · « **Reply #36 on:** November 13, 2009, 06:58:20 AM »

Quote from: Eric45 on November 13, 2009, 06:20:05 AM

One time through the Rossi M92 is all I ask. The brass is just battered; mouth and rim.

WOW!

Tell us more! Detail man! Detail!! A guy would go broke only being able to use his brass one time!

Bigeasy · « **Reply #37 on:** November 13, 2009, 11:55:43 AM »

If you section a PMC 44 mag, and a PMC 45LC case, they appear identical in thickness from the mouth to the webb. By eyeball anyway, as I have not taken a micromiter to them. Because of the slightly increased case capacity in the 45 LC, you should be able to drive a bullet af like weight and construction the same speed as a 44 mag, with slightly less pressure, all else being the same. The key is using these kind of loads in a weapon strong enough to handle them properly. The 92 is a strong design, proven with many chambered in 44 mag, so I would think any reasonable 45 LC load would be OK. I can't see the factory using inferior steel or heat treating on their 45 LC models compared to their 44 mag models.

Larry

teamnelson · « **Reply #38 on:** November 13, 2009, 12:01:39 PM »

Quote

I got my biggest moose 30 some years ago with one shot from a .357 4 inch Python; I was to young to realize that it wouldn't work!

Careful with that story ... per the experts, that's impossible! Personally, I think aliens helped the Indians kill their animals with a 25# draw stickbow.

timmeakin · « **Reply #39 on:** November 15, 2009, 12:27:19 AM »

Quote from: TeamNelson on November 13, 2009, 12:01:39 PM

Quote
I got my biggest moose 30 some years ago with one shot from a .357 4 inch Python; I was to young to realize that it wouldn't work!

Careful with that story ... per the experts, that's impossible! Personally, I think aliens helped the Indians kill their animals with a 25# draw stickbow.

Summer of '78; back then it was rare to see any moose that had a fear of people. I was hunting around on the ranges of Eielson AFB. I came up out of some brush and this 1440 lb. bull is standing broadside at 15 yards. I had been making plenty of racket, but as I said most moose have ignored me. I had been looking for hares but figured with six rounds plus a speedloader, I was gonna risk it. If you've ever been through the Anchorage airport and seen that moose in the glass box, that is the size of my moose. My antlers are 57"; not as big as some, but the moose was huge. Anyway I shot the first round single action for accuracy, and knew on impact that a second shot wouldn't be needed. High on the neck with a factory 158Gr. JSP, between vertebra and into spinal cord. The bull collapsed and let out one breath.
Since then, I've missed one season (the year my Dad passed). I've never seen a larger moose.
Now I hunt with a 16" Rossi M92 in 45Colt; backup is a shortened (4 1/2") SRH using the same 45 round.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #40 on:** November 15, 2009, 03:27:58 PM »

I have 5 of the Rossi 92's and none of them bugger up the brass. What is your's hitting on? DP

teddy12b · « **Reply #41 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:48:13 AM »

My 92's will leave the case mouth feeling a little jagged for some reason. It doesn't seem to matter much though because I just run them in the tumbler, then reload them like anything else without issue.

lcarrico · « **Reply #42 on:** November 25, 2009, 12:37:52 PM »

First post - really impressed with this site.

I own 4 .45 Colts, a pair of Marlin 1894 Cowboys and a pair of Ruger Bisley Vaqueros. I'm assuming you reload since you talk about different bullets. That being the case choose whichever you like. They will perform almost identically. I've owned a number of .44mags but finally got rid of them all in favor of the .45 Colts. For my high pressure loads I always use Starline brass. The others are probably fine but I use them for reduced loads in my pistols (my hot loads aren't much fun in the pistols).

I shoot the 300gr Hornady XTP you mentioned almost exclusively for hogs. Make sure you get the XTP and NOT the XTP Mag, as it won't cycle (at least in the Marlins). They expand well and hold their weight. I looked around for a different bullet after blowing up some Nosler 250grs on smallish hogs. I've had great luck with the 300 Hornady XTP. Before I took it out after hogs I shot it into sand at 15 yards behind 21.7gr H110 (Hodgdon's listed maximum). I estimate around 1,600fps out of the 24" barrel. The average diameter of the recovered bullet was 1.6" and it weighed 298.2gr.

Everytime I shoot a hog it goes straight down, even the 250+ pounders. The '92s are supposed to be a stronger action than the 1894s, but I'd hesitate before shooting the previously listed 23gr H110 with a 335gr bullet. Work up, but remember you can't safely back off H110 more than about 3% below max. Check your loading data, then check it again.

deernhog · « **Reply #43 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:10:01 AM »

Unless you are strongly locked into buying a Rossi/Puma try looking at a EMF Hartford. No external safety and the price was the same or lower. In my case it was lower. I have greatly enjoyed my .45 and have shot several deer with it using my handloaded hard cast .454 flat nose and CoreBON 265 grn hp factory ammo. The .44 mag would also be great in this rifle but I only have it in a Marlin I would never part with.

jlchucker · « **Reply #44 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:49:59 AM »

Quote from: deernhog on December 02, 2009, 02:10:01 AM

Unless you are strongly locked into buying a Rossi/Puma try looking at a EMF Hartford. No external safety and the price was the same or lower. In my case it was lower. I have greatly enjoyed my .45 and have shot several deer with it using my handloaded hard cast .454 flat nose and CoreBON 265 grn hp factory ammo. The .44 mag would also be great in this rifle but I only have it in a Marlin I would never part with.

I've got an EMF Hartford rifle in 44 magnum and like it fine. I wouldn't mind getting another-maybe a carbine in 44-40 or 357, except that shortly after I bought mine (2005 or thereabouts) they started putting that external safety on them and the prices have gone up. I understand that since Taurus took over the production of the Rossi 92's, they severed connections with EMF and the Hartford rifles are no longer offered. The only ones available are what's left over on dealers' shelves. Too bad. They were nice rifles, and at least to me, that name "Hartford" conjured up a nostalgic feeling of the quality of New England firearms manufacture of days long gone.

deernhog · « **Reply #45 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:07:38 AM »

That is too bad about EMF. I would have liked to have gotten a .357 mag in the longer hex barrel model.

teamnelson · « **Reply #46 on:** December 03, 2009, 06:44:53 AM »

I've got an emf Hartford 92 with cased frame ... Pretty! ... And safety ... not so pretty. Also have an older Rossi with great wood and no safety. Both in 357. The EMF is not as slick as the Rossi, but both are great shooters. I'm gravitating towards a 24" in .44 someday. Got my first Marlin 30-30 and I have to say I prefer the feel of the 92, and for what I'd use it for, the .44 would do as well as the 30-30.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #47 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:04:14 AM »

I loaded up a dummy round using a 240 gr Keith to see how long a round my 92's action would take. 1.650" with the lever cycled smartly. I'll go a hair under that with the crimp on the foward driving band.

I also painted the front sight face with white nail polish so now I can see the blade against a dark background. This thing fits so good and points so naturally I can't wait to get it to the range!

I'll shoot it with irons for a while just for grins, but it'll get a Marble's Tang Sight before next deer season!

BTW, the last time I emailed EMF, a few months ago, they still had NIB 92's and some "demo's" for sale at reduced prices. Might be worth your while to contact them if you are ready to buy one.

I wonder if the OP ever got one?

Mikey · « **Reply #48 on:** December 03, 2009, 11:21:13 AM »

Richard: I have found that you sometimes get smoother cycling with swc style slugs if you slightly roll your crimp just over the edge of the front leading band. Levers are finicky about overall cartridge length and some bullet styles loaded too long.

I shoot the 240 gn Keith through my M94 444s. I load them to 44 mag levels. I find it necessary to roll crimp just over the front leading bad for my levers to make certain the overall cartridge length will cycle, to allow for smooth chambering and to protect the front leading band from damage. After I roll crimp, just slightly, I run it halfway back up the sizing die or up through the Lee Factory Crimp Die and those rounds are pretty slick on the cycling end. Pretty accurate too as a matter of fact........

AtlLaw · « **Reply #49 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:02:48 PM »

Thanks Mikey! That's some good info! I had to crimp over the front driving band on some rounds I loaded for my revolver; the Keiths were just to long.

And I wondered how SWC's would cycle through the lever gun. $:-\$

I was planning on doing a med/heavy roll crimp after seating to 1.650, which should bring it down to around 1.600 or so but I like your idea better!

Does the combination roll crimp/factory crimp over the front of the front driving band hold the bullets securely enough?