Graybeard why no 45?

[B2crawler]

Ya won't ever see me carrying a .45 acp or a 1911 anything as I don't own and will not own either.
Copy and pasted this from an old reply of yours and just have to ask why you don't like 1911's or the 45 ACP round?

Thanks for all the great information and entertainment your website provides
Nick

[Graybeard]

Why?

1. I can't stand cooper and he praised it so highly anything he likes I dislike.

2. Just not a fan of the round and don't buy into the 230 RB fairly tales of its effectiveness.

3. Over the years those I've owned have been more trouble to load for and keep them functioning than any other round I've loaded for.

4. Guns chambered for it in general don't fit my hands well.

5. Hate the grip safety as it tends to pinch my hand badly and to me adds nothing worthwhile.

The list could go on but you get the idea.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  n I CANNOT resist Did't Swampman just post an  bit of Cooper praising the old .30-06??? You like the old '06 

[Graybeard]

I pretty much ignore anything swampy posts but yes I do like the '06. It isn't really my favorite tho that would be the 7-08 which swampy thinks is a fair squirrel round.

[Swampman]

I do dislike the 7-08.  The 1911 is useless for hunting & too big (heavy)for self defense,  It's ok for target shooting but a .22 is cheaper to shoot.  Give me a revolver.

[rockbilly]

It must be a macho thing with my Texas Ranger friends..............most all of them carry a 1911, a model 94 and and 870.  Shoot, some of 'em even ride a white horse .

I own several Colt 1911s in .45 and a couple of Delta Elites in 10mm, I would not choose any of them as a carry gun, but the Sig 220 and 254 are another story.

[rio grande]

Why?

1. I can't stand cooper and he praised it so highly anything he likes I dislike.

2. Just not a fan of the round and don't buy into the 230 RB fairly tales of its effectiveness.

3. Over the years those I've owned have been more trouble to load for and keep them functioning than any other round I've loaded for.

4. Guns chambered for it in general don't fit my hands well.

5. Hate the grip safety as it tends to pinch my hand badly and to me adds nothing worthwhile.

The list could go on but you get the idea.

Graybeard has some good points. I've owned a few 1911's over the years, most had some kind of problem. Only two that were 100% for me were an old GI Ithaca and a Norinco. Both unmodified.
Cooper WAS an arrogant cuss. Easy to dislike.
And the 1911... now, if you practice with it constantly maybe it's great, but...to add to Graybeards objections...

1) must be carried 'cocked and locked' if you want any speed at all.  If you carry w/ hammer down or empty chamber any single action revolver is quicker and more positive (and better ergonomics).
2) Throws cases away into the weeds and maybe in your face and eyes!
3) I've seen lots of folks try to shoot it, pull on trigger...pull harder...oops! safety on. Imagine doing that in an emergency!

It has it's good points - easy parts replacement (except for plunger tube!), flat for easy carrying, fits my hand OK, but doesn't handle nearly as well to me as a double-action S&W medium-frame, or a good single-action revolver.

[gstewart44]

I don't own any 1911, or any other centerfire semi auto pistols,   but I do like the 45acp for my SW 1917 revolvers with speedloaders.    I have had the action on one slicked up  and I carry this when pig hunting.   Load with 250 gr keith style swc's at about 825 fps and it is good pig medicine.   Never had any trouble reloading it I guess because I'm using it in the wheelgun.   

[Cheesehead]

Most rifles are carried "cocked and locked" any few people have an issue with that.

Cheese

[williamlayton]

You could do as Charlie Miller did ---tie the grip safety down and carry it on half cock.
I have no problem with the functioning of the 1911. I understaand it and it is pretty simple---and safe.
Cock and lock--one move and it goes pop.
Ergonomics are the best for me.
If you don't like the grip safety get it fixed.
My 1911's run flawless.
Like RB-- It think the Sig is the best carry gun but that is out of the box. I don't own---and won't own---one that I wouldn't carry to a backwoods bar in East Texas.
If you don't care for the everday banging of the .45 get a 9x23 or 38 super.
Blessings

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

Mr. William, you are the second person to mention Charlie Miller. Is the the Tx. Ranger?  The stories I have heard about him are fascinating.  Any books on him???

[aromakr]

Wow! haven't seen so much dislike for the 1911 in a long time. I own three, and my Kimber ultra-compact is about as comfortable and efficient a side arm I've ever carried. And out of the box will put it up against any other sidearm on the market, but thats what make the world go around!!!!
Bob 

[S.S.]

  Don't like a 1911?
I kinda' liked Jeff Cooper myself although his "Scout Rifle"
idea was pretty silly to me. Why it ever caught on I will never
know

[Swampman]

It's a great pistol for a combat soldier.  I'm too old to be one.  Military firearms are for fighting wars.  I like Col. Cooper and the Scout Rifle concept.

[Drilling Man]

Wow! haven't seen so much dislike for the 1911 in a long time. I own three, and my Kimber ultra-compact is about as comfortable and efficient a side arm I've ever carried. And out of the box will put it up against any other sidearm on the market, but thats what make the world go around!!!!
Bob 

  OK, how about against my S&W M-29 (it's stock) at 200 yards for accuracy, and penetration?

  DM

[trotterlg]

The 1911 is most likely one of the best hand guns ever built, anyone who dislikes it is either, insane, hasn't touched one, is a Communist, Terrorist, or a Sissy.  Just the sound of the slide chambering a round is more than enough to send any sane person ruinng.  This is clear to me.     Larry

[Cheesehead]

Wow! haven't seen so much dislike for the 1911 in a long time. I own three, and my Kimber ultra-compact is about as comfortable and efficient a side arm I've ever carried. And out of the box will put it up against any other sidearm on the market, but thats what make the world go around!!!!
Bob 

  OK, how about against my S&W M-29 (it's stock) at 200 yards for accuracy, and penetration?

  DM

How about your  29 against my 1911 @ 7 yards, steel targets, timed.

[Mikey]

I like the 1911A1. I like Graybeard but don't like Cooper.  Carry a snub nose 38 when I want to or a 1911 in any of a couple of different calibers.  Don't care for Cooper's concept of a Scout Rifle or his Marine Corp tactical considerations and would prefer a Mountain Rifle instead. 

And if anyone is gonna be silly enough to want to comapre a 1911 to a 629 then you can shoot 44 specials in the 629 to even the odds or use a 625 instead.  jmtcw.

[Drilling Man]

The 1911 is most likely one of the best hand guns ever built, anyone who dislikes it is either, insane, hasn't touched one, is a Communist, Terrorist, or a Sissy.  Just the sound of the slide chambering a round is more than enough to send any sane person ruinng.  This is clear to me.     Larry

  Well, i've owned several gov., commander, and gold cup models, and i STILL don't like them.

  I know i'm not a communist, or a terrotist (at least not against my country) so i must be a sissy.

  DM

[Cheesehead]

I like the 1911A1. I like Graybeard but don't like Cooper.  Carry a snub nose 38 when I want to or a 1911 in any of a couple of different calibers.  Don't care for Cooper's concept of a Scout Rifle or his Marine Corp tactical considerations and would prefer a Mountain Rifle instead. 

And if anyone is gonna be silly enough to want to comapre a 1911 to a 629 then you can shoot 44 specials in the 629 to even the odds or use a 625 instead.  jmtcw.

Are you calling me and Drilling Man silly?
And in the same sentence compare a 625 to a 1911?
Whats up with that?

My comment was followed by a 

[rockbilly]

Williamlaytin.  Why in the world would you want to carry a gun to a any Texas backwoods bar?  You know when you go there that if you don't have one, they will issue you one.

[mcwoodduck]

Col. Cooper had some strange Idea's
he liked the hi power hand gun rounds and Energy was a big thing
If cooper had his way we would only have
22LR, 308/30-06, 375 H&H/ 376 Styer, 10mm, 45ACP, and 12 ga.
All he cared about was either big game or defense as a round.
He wanted the 10mm but hated the 40S&W it produced, and saw no need for a reduced round or the smaller frames it could use.
I remember one of his last rantings in G&A on how the 17HMR was a stupid idea and was not needed.
I went out to buy one a month later and started tests to write a rebuttal.
When I stated shooting in the 80's the 1911 was king in the books and rags.  But when I went to get one I found that the $500 gun needed about another $300 in action work and a diet of one type of ammo to function, once tuned it needed only that ammo and if it was hand loads you were done shooting for the day if you ran out. 
I bought one of the Black Wonder 9's by Sig and have never looked back.  I remember reading an article back in the Late 70's about the P220 being the only 45acp at the time that could shoot not only any factory ammo made but can do so with a mixed mag, something that would have choked a 1911.  I have a number of Sigs and I used to say I will need a 1911 when Sig makes one.  Now I just pull out my 220 Sport and ask others why I would want an inferrior 1911.
From my friends that shoot them, the tuning thing is no longer needed. But it has nothing on my 220S Sport that was hand tuned for about the same price as one of the current 1911's.

[williamlayton]

WCH
You can look up Milleron the net---as far as book/books on HIM, not that I know of.
A lot of books on the Texas rangers.

RB
I carry my own because:
The ones they give you came from the last guy that lost
I prefer to die with something in my hand I know I can trust.
Sometimes all they give you is a knife---and you know about bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Old Cut and Shoot is a good lesson in picking the right bar.
Blessings

[NickSS]

I have been a lover of the 1911 for 40 years and can say that they are a good gun.  However, I will also say that they are not the best gun any longer. I like to shoot mine and have hunted with them (I've killed deer, coyote, wild pigs and one steer with mine). I used to carry one but I do not do so any longer.  The advent of good expanding bullets for other smaller calibers have convinced me that I can carry a better pistol with smaller ammo that will fulfill my defensive requirements.  So today my carry gun is a compact Baby Eagle in 9mm.  This pistol will digest any ammo I have tried from hand loads to factory premium defense rounds and do so without a hickup.  I have over 3000 rounds of mixed ammo through it and have yet to have a single malfunction and 13 rounds in it gives me more confidence.  I will further say that of the 15 or 20 1911s I have owned none have shown this reliability to go bang every time.

[ShooterToo]

RB
I carry my own because:
The ones they give you came from the last guy that lost
I prefer to die with something in my hand I know I can trust.
Sometimes all they give you is a knife---and you know about bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Old Cut and Shoot is a good lesson in picking the right bar.
Blessings

I feel the same way about most things.  I watched a movie last night called "The Rookie."  The soundtrack contained a song called Stuff That Works.  Pretty much speaks for me.

"Stuff that works, stuff that holds up
The kind of stuff you don’t hang on the wall
Stuff that’s real, stuff you feel
The kind of stuff you reach for when you fall"

I shoot a lot of different guns, calibers and configurations.  I carry stuff that works.

[bluecow]

good lord i thought that i was the only hieratic that didnt worship at the throne of  el-col.  though the scout concept has some merritt.

[SHOOTALL]

This is interesting , Col. C like all had good and bad points but i would never dislike a machine because someone else liked it . No matter what any of us think 98 years of production with more companies building them now than ever before trumps anything negative we can say . There are three safetys on a ser. 80 1911 - grip , frame mounted and fireing pin . The gun can't fire unless you pull the trigger after griping it and clearing the safety . Yet many feel the Glock is safer . How is that ? on the 1911 you have to take 3 actions to make it fire - grip it , clear the safety and pull the trigger ( keep in mind these safeties were added to make it safe while riding and falling from a horse later omited with the High Power ). With a Glock you grip it and pull the trigger . I don't see the logic here . The funny thing the 1911 is the fasest first shot and best trigger an all shots . With the EMP no one should have to small of a hand to grip a 1911 if they really want a 1911 . Sig's are OK but they now make a 1911 along with S&W - can't beat them so join them i guess . The 2-- ser. sigs place the bbl to high for me but they do work well but not better than a good 1911. I have had a couple sigs that would not feed certian ammo and needed adjusting , had a Glock 23 that would not feed period and Glock replaced it .
So any model gun can have a flaw in a few samples . It would seem the sheer numbers of 98 years of production on different levels of quality the 1911 would have more defects out than anyother gun . Add it was made to shoot ball ammo for the first 60-70 years and shooters trying to shoot other bullets only adds to the misunderstanding gun . The fact that it could be changed and now fire any round out the box only shows the quality of the design .

[rio grande]

You could do as Charlie Miller did ---tie the grip safety down and carry it on half cock.
I have no problem with the functioning of the 1911. I understaand it and it is pretty simple---and safe.
Cock and lock--one move and it goes pop.
Ergonomics are the best for me.
If you don't like the grip safety get it fixed.
My 1911's run flawless.
Like RB-- It think the Sig is the best carry gun but that is out of the box. I don't own---and won't own---one that I wouldn't carry to a backwoods bar in East Texas.
If you don't care for the everday banging of the .45 get a 9x23 or 38 super.
Blessings

"tie the grip safety down and carry it on half cock."
That's an unwise and unsafe practice. Not recommended.
May I ask - do you unfailingly carry cocked and locked, all the time, on nightstand also? If not you will invariably at some point (tired, sleepy, etc.) fail to realize your weapon is not ready. That's bad.

Ergonomics are highly personal of course, that's all to the good.

SOME 1911's work great, most don't without gunsmithing. That's been my experience anyway.
All in all, I like them. But to RELY on, and for sure function - give me a double-action revolver any day over a 1911.

Those ol' bars in my beloved Piney Woods have nothing on the ones on Telephone Rd. in Houston.
Why, when the Telephone Rd. crowd needs a relaxing break they drive on up to Cut and Shoot!

[SHOOTALL]

It has been my experince if you buy a QUALITY 1911 , use correct ammo and break it in ( its not a sloppy plastic gun) it works well . If you buy a cheap pic of junk , use wrong or cheap ammo or don't break it in or clean it it can be a jamatic . I carry a revolver most of the time because it fits in a pocket , but the big auto is in the truck or near by . I would never consider  the reolver a better combat weapon than an auto . The 1911 has a faster first shot , and faster rest of the shots for that matter . It is easier to shoot accurate by most , easier to reload 

[williamlayton]

RG
There was a young range officer who once as Charles the same question about half cock---He said "son, if this ol SOB wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't carry it."
Telephone Road has most certainly replaced cut and shoot. But cut and shoot earned its name as did apple springs, Trinity and so many other bars along county roads in the "wet" counties of East Texas that they are legends in history.
Had a first cousin that was in a bar in Apple Springs during the 40's, a feller shot him six times with a .45, for fooling around with his wife, and Baker ask him if he thought he had shot him enough, before he fell.
I cut my teeth and saw the elephant in these places when I was growing up.
Blessings