Graybeard why no 45?

[SHOOTALL]

William we have those places here , worst thing i ever heard in one was when about 5 of us walked into one some old guy yells out " they ain't from round here ) . I was second thru. the door and did a u turn as the front plate glass window exploded from a shot .

[John R.]

1911's are not for everybody. They were designed to be carried cocked and locked, and that's the best way to carry them. The 1911 platform has done it all from wars, tactical teams, to the most popular platform for the gun games. It's still going strong after all  these years, and will probably continue to do so for a long, long time. I own several 1911's and have no problem carrying one. That being said, these days I'm usually armed with a XD45 Compact with TFO sights. The older I get the more I like the pull, point, shoot concept.

[Frank V]

Wow, why not let everyone choose what he wants to carry or is mandated to carry? I like both Autos & revolvers & strongly feel that a fellow should carry what he likes best & shoots the best with. I don't feel we should run someone down because he wants to carry an Auto or Revolver. Let's respect one another as fellow shooters & just because someone's views are different than mine I won't run him down for it.
Frank

[SHOOTALL]

Frank, true .
 but to list the good points and bad points is not a bad thing , is it ?
 I live shooting a 1911 , have had alum frame guns and they are still to heavy to carry year round for me . Read I'm not willing to change enough to make it happen yet . If someone is and states opposition to my thoughts its perfectly ok no matter how much in error they are .

[rio grande]

RG
There was a young range officer who once as Charles the same question about half cock---He said "son, if this ol SOB wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't carry it."
Telephone Road has most certainly replaced cut and shoot. But cut and shoot earned its name as did apple springs, Trinity and so many other bars along county roads in the "wet" counties of East Texas that they are legends in history.
Had a first cousin that was in a bar in Apple Springs during the 40's, a feller shot him six times with a .45, for fooling around with his wife, and Baker ask him if he thought he had shot him enough, before he fell.
I cut my teeth and saw the elephant in these places when I was growing up.
Blessings

Yes, those were some rough old places in East Texas.
I grew up with one foot in the woods and one in the big city.
But there were plenty of characters on the edges of the Thicket. I had a girlfriend when I was a little teenager and thought I knew everything. Her and I went to pick up her dad at a bar north of Houston on Homestead Rd. called the 'Swamp'. He had considerable to drink.
Well, that night I came about as close to dying as I have so far.  The old rednecks don't fool.  I don't know if John Browning's masterpiece even would have helped me much.
She was a nice girl though.  I'm glad we lived through those days.

[rio grande]

Wow, why not let everyone choose what he wants to carry or is mandated to carry? I like both Autos & revolvers & strongly feel that a fellow should carry what he likes best & shoots the best with. I don't feel we should run someone down because he wants to carry an Auto or Revolver. Let's respect one another as fellow shooters & just because someone's views are different than mine I won't run him down for it.
Frank

Ain't that the truth?  Handguns are a very personal decision. Each to his own.
They are all good. Your attitude is more important than what you carry, in the long run.

[williamlayton]

RG
I go back far enough to remember when Homstead and airline were considered the woods---and you aint far behind  .
Conroe, The Big Oak, Jasper--ORANGE/PT ARTHUR--Lordy, them woods was full of those places.
Blessings

[BIGDAVE54]

I always felt that Col. Cooper was a bit of an egomaniac and talked like he was the only person who had ever been in a gunfight or a military uniform. A few of his ideas were pretty good although I don't think many were really his own. The idea of a scout rifle certainly wasn't.  I never could see why someone would want to carry a 1911. It only carries about 7 rounds and has the grip safety. I for the life of me can not see why anybody would want a gripsafety on a firearm. It is just one more thing to go wrong when the pistol is really needed. In my opinion it is just dumb. I always carried the Browning Hi Power when I could pick my sidearm(14 rds). In the USAF we were issued the model 15 S&W Combat Masterpiece. It is one of the finest firearms ever made if you load it with decent ammo and fit it to your hand. I always used the original grip with a Tyler insert. The USAF showed superior judgement by allowing us to use whatever grips we wanted(at our own exspense) ,but we had to put the revolver back to original if we changed bases.
    I recently bought a FNP .45 ACP. It is probably the best firearm I have ever owned...time will tell. I can adjust the grip wth the inserts and it has 16 rounds of .45 ACP. I feel that the area I live in here grows more violent each day. Government statistics back that up too. The downtown area of Columbia,SC is one of the most violent places per capita in America. I won't get into why this is,but say it is a combination of things including most of the maladys of any  city in the country...anyway  there is a probability if I had to shoot one of these gangbangers or thugs they will be high on meth or crack. I have little doubt that one must literally blow the brain off the spine or blast the bulk of the heart muscle out of these animals to stop them...Yes I said animals and that is exactly what they become when they are wired on these things and come to rob you. In the last few years I have gotten older,slower,and more disabled from the broken and fused bones I have from a lifetime of working in mining and construction. I feel that if anyone has earned the right to walk up and down a public street unmolested it is my wife and me. She is a disabled Vet from the Vietnam era(blown eardrums from flying on Nightengale hospital flights). I know at one time in this country it was considered a sin to let harm come to one of God's creations. We are all God's creations and we should fight these thugs with everything we can if we are attacked in public. The only reason I carry a .45 ACP is I can't afford a 105 Howitzer and it is too big to carry....BTW...Did a little time working in the oil patch over in Channelview ,Texas and lived in the city around Fondren and Bissonet St....That was an episode of layoffs in the coalfields when we got the bright idea that we might just go West and become cowboys. Rough bunch in the oil patch...hehehe

[03A2]

about the grip safety - anyone with a very basic understanding of the function of their 1911 can make it inoperable in about five minutes with a stone or file.  I've never understood the stories about rubber bands and strings, why not just fix it?  In fact, one of the custom boys is now selling a combination mainspring and beavertail "non-safety", that I always thought would be a slick idea. You could always return your pistol back to stock with another  grip safety.
As for accurate, timed fire, aren't the current records held by revolvers? McGivern and Miculek have records that I thought beat most if not all of the automatics.  I personally tend to shoot better timed groups with a DA revolver, I think the heavy pull helps steady my hands and pull the muzzle onto target. 

[SHOOTALL]

o3a2 , some are afraid that if they use the gun to defend themselves and it is altered it might open a can of worms for them .Or if an accident occures it could cause problems ( like an accident isn't already a problem ). I have heard of people using tape to hold it down , pinning it down etc. If you do anything to keep it down or make it go away you have a high power. 

[williamlayton]

The grip safety is a problem with the grip.
A very high grip makes the GS difficult to compress. I have this problem on occasion.
It is a very simple procedure and I have it done.
In the old days smithing was not the art it is today---and hard to come by.
I disagree---a HP is a very fine gun and JMB designed it to be very functional. I have owned one. It is not a 1911 though.
Charles Miller's option was very effective.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

JMB Did both at least started the HP . I was talking about the safety of the handgun . No The HP is not a 1911 it was what the inventer considered a more modern gun since the grip safety was added to the gun at the request of the Army to make it a safe gun f use  while mounted on horse back . One might argue the HP is a better combat handgun seems alot of armies think so .

[Tonk]

I remember the very firest time I tried to shoot the model 1911 while in the military at Ft. Benning, GA. I also remember the only persons that hit the target down range 20 yards away were the 3 Sgts. who were instructing our group of young soldiers. Those pistols would just rattle like marbles in a can when you picked them up......no joke!

Well, I have come to love the model 1911 over the years and did my far share of shooting 3 of them back in the 1970's. Colt made quality semi-autos in model 1911 back then and I own a Gold Cup and 2 model 70's series 1911's.

Today my collection has grown and 3 Kimbers were added to the vault and a Springfield or two to boot!!! I don't carry a 1911 as my CCW weapon because of arthritis in my thumb and wrist joint. It makes it hard for me to sweap off the safety and sometimes my thumb just will not co-opporate a tall.

I think the 45acp is still a very good STOPPER up close and personal like, it makes a big hole and there is no denying that for a fact. I carry a Glock 21-SF 45acp and Glock 29 in the 10mm cal. It will get pulled if the 45acp should ever cease to take care of the threat.

[lrs]

RG
There was a young range officer who once as Charles the same question about half cock---He said "son, if this ol SOB wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't carry it."
Telephone Road has most certainly replaced cut and shoot. But cut and shoot earned its name as did apple springs, Trinity and so many other bars along county roads in the "wet" counties of East Texas that they are legends in history.
Had a first cousin that was in a bar in Apple Springs during the 40's, a feller shot him six times with a .45, for fooling around with his wife, and Baker ask him if he thought he had shot him enough, before he fell.
I cut my teeth and saw the elephant in these places when I was growing up.
Blessings

Yes, those were some rough old places in East Texas.
I grew up with one foot in the woods and one in the big city.
But there were plenty of characters on the edges of the Thicket. I had a girlfriend when I was a little teenager and thought I knew everything. Her and I went to pick up her dad at a bar north of Houston on Homestead Rd. called the 'Swamp'. He had considerable to drink.
Well, that night I came about as close to dying as I have so far.  The old rednecks don't fool.  I don't know if John Browning's masterpiece even would have helped me much.
She was a nice girl though.  I'm glad we lived through those days.

I have lived in east Texas most of my life.
Cut and Shoot is about 10 miles from my house.

[williamlayton]

New Caney boy? Know any Cannon's ? I was Born and raised in Livingston---in a log cabin.
Blessings

[Old Griz]

I keep trying to buy a 1911 to have as a fun gun, but dang it, every time I get enough money saved up to get one I find a S&W revolver that is just too good to pass up. First time it was a 4" 57 (no dash), and then just recently I was going to get a ParaOrdinance GI Expert, and there was a 3" 24-3 . . . Maybe, one of these days I'll get that 1911. But then, there are a lot of fine Smiths out there waiting for me to take them home.

[SHOOTALL]

I like autos , like revolvers also . What i hate is picking up brass after shooting an auto . So I shoot revolvers alot more .

[wganz]

Regardless if you love or hate him, give Colonel Cooper credit for starting modern pistol craft. He helped pioneer the 10mm and the Bren Ten was a business failure but a success in starting to think about what was required to shoot, win, and survive a pistol fight. Back in the early 1970's when the 10mm was being developed, the .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ was the most reliable autoloading pistol bullet available at that time and his position was that he promoted what was commonly available to everyone. Yes, we've come a long way baby in bullet design since then. Even in this, give him credit as a pioneer in pushing bullet performance by pointing out the flaws in the existing designs. His .40"/200gr/1000fps concept pushed the envelope in handgun design and started a Renaissance in firearm development.

I didn't agree with his caliber selection in the scout rifle but could not argue his points about knowing scouting techniques or knowing how to shoot effectively. This pushed the development of the tactical rifle and the craft of its employment. I've got a Mauser M98 that is Izzy converted to 7.62x51 that I'm going to convert to a version of the 'scout rifle'. A lot of what he wrote is still valid today and I'll apply his thoughts to this build. I just wonder though what he would have thought of the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC on the AR15 platform today?

Now, my challenge to his critics is to come up as many successful concepts as he did. Reminds me of my grandfather's statement, "Those that have the most criticism about a problem have the fewest callouses from trying to correct it."

Love or hate him, but you've got to recognize that he left an indelible stamp on the shooting world and we're all better off from it. And he did all of this from the back pages of Guns & Ammo magazine.

[mcwoodduck]

While I do not  always agree with Col Cooper, I do respect him.
He was the high preist of the cult of Colt.
what I have problems with is Col Cooper saw a limited view of the fire arms.
Defence, big game, and tactical.  
I also found it strange that a magizine like Guns and ammo gave a man who did not like new designs, unless he made them (Bren 10).
and someone who only liked a few calibers in a magizine that was there to promote new  firearm designs, ammo, caliers/ ctgs, and ammo designs.
I understand if you have an idea and promote it great.  But the idea that the Bren ten is great when it was a modification of the S&W, trafalio, and the CZ-75 but all three stunk to him.
Also as the 10mm was reduced in power and later reduced in size to fit in more platforms and called the 40 S&W he hated it and made fun of the people that could not handle the full house loads or the large frame guns.
And for me unfortunatly some of his under preists were really silly and hurt his cause.
I remember reading an article by Chuck Taylor comparing the 45 to the 357.  His main point was that for full power loads in the 357 you need an N frame and the K frame was not strong enough to e effective with the full house loads.  the N frame 357 was too big and bulky to carry.  But later in the article he writes that if you are a revolver fan S&W makes an N frame in 45 acp that would fit your need.
Now let me see if I get this right.  357 is only effective in an N frame and the N is too big to carry, but magicly if you get it in 45 acp the N is just perfect to carry.  At that point I started to question the gun writtes and looked at many as saying things and not knowing why other than Col Cooper says so.

[Old Griz]

I think everyone respected the man for his accomplishments and for his writing, but it was sad to read his later articles and observe the Senile Dementia or Alzheimer's begin to set in. It was a testimony to his stature that Guns & Ammo Magazine still published his works after he began to fade. He had a tremendous amount of knowledge, and an ample amount of opinion, but I dare say that most of us really enjoyed reading him even if we did not agree with him on everything.

[Drilling Man]

I think everyone respected the man for his accomplishments and for his writing, but it was sad to read his later articles and observe the Senile Dementia or Alzheimer's begin to set in. It was a testimony to his stature that Guns & Ammo Magazine still published his works after he began to fade. He had a tremendous amount of knowledge, and an ample amount of opinion, but I dare say that most of us really enjoyed reading him even if we did not agree with him on everything.

  Well, i guess?  But even in his early writeings, he babbled so much he bored me to tears!

  DM

[coyotejoe]

I've never cared for the 1911 since I qualified with one in the Army in 1960. I was one of the few kids who had owned a handgun before the army and I knew what I could do with one. I was astonished when that old rattle-trap threw edge hits and complete misses when I knew I had pulled center. Granted, those pistols were worn out but the military acceptance standard for the 1911 was only 6 inches at 25 yards and they didn't require ALL shots inside 6", only 8 of 10 as I recall. People praise John Browning's design to the heavens but five generations of gunsmiths have made themselves a good living out of correcting the design flaws and after-market improved parts is a major industry today. If it was such a great design why does it need so much improvement?

[SHOOTALL]

Most simi auto hand guns use a Browning slide - bbl lock up In one form or another . As designed the gun was to work in mud , dirt , salt water , on horse back etc. When you look at what it replaced and what it offered at the time it was designed it is a great gun . As for smiths making a living turning combat guns into target guns is often offered but never explained . Its like saying custom work on any machine makes the base machine faulty when in fact if the base is used for custom work over all other choices it really only elevates the machine above all others . Lets see when the machine called a 1911 came out the bullets were lead round nose "BALL AMMO" . Then they went to copper plated , then copper jacketed no real problem for the old work horse , The powder changed , still little problem . Well then the hollow point bullet showed up OUCH . the ramp and bbl arrangement had to be changed . So whats your point about gun smiths helping the machine change to meet new demands ? Look at cars , space ships , boats , heating systems - since the 1911 came along Air Condition in homes came along , Cars , TV, wide spread use of phones , Just about every machine in use in 1911 has adapted to new uses or faded away yet this machine has endured and excelled if not as a 1911 but in many other handguns using the same tried and proven designs . The 1911 is here today because it is still a sound gun and investment . I add that like cars , dimonds or anything else when you talk about its merits talk about the quality guns not the cheap knock offs

[Graybeard]

I think everyone respected the man for his accomplishments and for his writing

Then you'd be mistaken. Not all of us do. He turns my stomach just to hear his name.

[Swampman]

I like Cooper but I don't care for semi-autos.

[lrs]

I think everyone respected the man for his accomplishments and for his writing

Then you'd be mistaken. Not all of us do. He turns my stomach just to hear his name.

There are a few politicians that I have the same reaction with.