Author Topic: German handheld thundermugs (Read 1782 times)

cannonmn · « **on:** October 02, 2009, 03:54:40 PM »

I saw one of these weapons at a gun show. They are huge percussion pistols, with a very thick-walled barrel about a foot long and maybe 1.5-inch bore. This video shows one of the celebrations where they fire them in sequence. You can tell they are a lot more "energetic" than your average percussion pistol. Too bad they don't show one up close. This cannon-related since it is a variation of the thunder mug, and any weapon with a 1.5-inch bore is considered a cannon in most places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxZlWJgvXio

cannonmn · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2009, 04:00:41 PM »

Here's one of 'em, very much like the one I saw. It is about twice as large as a simlar-looking large bore percussion-lock pistol.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2009, 01:48:03 AM »

Here is the company that makes those, as well as cannons and thundermugs, etc.

http://www.boeller-pfnuer.de/Hinterlader.htm

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2009, 01:55:52 AM »

Quote from: Max Caliber on October 03, 2009, 01:48:03 AM

http://www.boeller-pfnuer.de/Hinterlader.htm

If you go to http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ you can paste in the url above and have that page translated into a langauge you can read.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2009, 02:39:15 AM »

That's one serious pistol!

Dirty harry eat your heart out! 40 MM bore

For the more timid they make rifle stocked ones also......

how about 3 shots...

It's nice to see they still make traditional thundermugs....

and some not so traditional.....

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:29:41 AM »

Note the charge weights they give is grams. One gram is just a little less than 15.5 grains.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:51:49 AM »

From what I can tell this is in Switzerland not Germany....

Night firing......

Of course traditional attire is a must!

They even have competitions.....
http://www.schuetzensport.de/boeller/index.htm

thelionspaw · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2009, 06:10:43 AM »

Are those long ones for shooting around corners?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2009, 07:48:21 AM »

Quote from: thelionspaw on October 03, 2009, 06:10:43 AM

Are those long ones for shooting around corners?

Rich,

Just think, the desperate Jerries actually tried that.

http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.988

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2009, 08:59:40 AM »

Quote from: thelionspaw on October 03, 2009, 06:10:43 AM

Are those long ones for shooting around corners?

Those are the cough drop dispensers....

thelionspaw · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:47:43 AM »

Ricolaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

BoomLover · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2009, 05:03:55 PM »

German, Swiss, which ever...we'er talkin' 1 1/2" bore, hand held... competition, as in with projectiles? Those guys are some dedicated cannoneers! Bet the BenGay dealership has to love those events! BoomLover

KABAR2 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2009, 05:54:02 PM »

Quote from: BoomLover on October 03, 2009, 05:03:55 PM

German, Swiss, which ever...we'er talkin' 1 1/2" bore, hand held... competition, as in with projectiles? Those guys are some dedicated cannoneers! Bet the BenGay dealership has to love those events! BoomLover

Actually I believe they are loading a piece of cork over the charge, the catalog shows different sizes on one page, I assume that's what they are for.

it looks like the competition is on a precision display by teams I guess who puts on the best show wins, sort of like the fire work competitions for who's the best.

cannonmn · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2009, 12:31:55 AM »

I'm told that between competitions, the gun owners moonlight in cheese factories, firing loads of 00-buckshot into wheels of cheese to create the holes.

Double D · « **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2009, 06:57:26 AM »

Quote from: cannonmn on October 04, 2009, 12:31:55 AM

I'm told that between competitions, the gun owners moonlight in cheese factories, firing loads of 00-buckshot into wheels of cheese to create the holes.

Oh, John, groan, that is bad!!!

PSLimo · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2009, 07:03:43 AM »

Hey Guys,

I have to have one of those "Elmer Fudd" guns. Does anyone know if you can buy them or where in the States?

Thanks in advance,

Phil

KABAR2 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2009, 07:45:38 AM »

Being that it is black powder it should be able to be imported with out too much hassle

write the company and see what it would take to get one exported, that will be half the battle.

Although you could probably get a barrel built here and build it yourself much easier.

Maybe cannonmn can tell you who the dealer was who had one here in the states.

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2009, 08:39:33 AM »

Check with our sponsors, maybe they will make you one. Or buy one from the website and have it shipped over to you.

PSLimo · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2009, 03:11:49 PM »

Thanks for the insight,

These "Hand Cannons" appear to be popular in Europe. However, Google let me down trying to find a dealer in the states. It would make a great conversational wallpiece. If anyone could find a USA dealer, I'm betting this is the message board to look.

I'm still going to stick with my Dominick's golf ball mortar for the Holidays!

Phil

cannonmn · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2009, 03:57:54 PM »

Quote

who the dealer was who had one here in the states.

All I can tell you is that it was an older one, and appeared to be a lot better-crafted than those on the websites posted. The dealer who had it was a friend named Joe Salter, who I think has a website. No idea if he still has it, I think asking was about $3k. It was a helluva piece and if I had had the xtra bucks at that show, you'd be looking at a video of me firing it by now.

Double D · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2009, 05:09:59 PM »

http://www.joesalter.com/

Joe Salter is on my Martini Internet resource list. www.martini.com/links.htm He has a repution of being a bit pricey, will negotiate a bit and is nice guy. If you go to Salter's site and click on antique handguns and scroll down the list, and look for worlds largest handgun item 12289

PSLimo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2009, 02:41:27 PM »

Thanks for the link,

He's a little pricey at almost $4000.00! The ones on the site are around $550 to $1100.00 USD. My brother has some clients in Germany and I'll see how to get one shipped since it doesn't seem that there are any dealers in the States.

Hopefully, I'll be posting a picture of one saluting in Chicago soon!

Phil

RocklockI · « **Reply #22 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:13:14 PM »

PSLimo ...If you ever get a reply from them let me know .

i already emailed ..but no reply yet .

whats the reason for the acorn nuts on the buttplate ...? it looks painfull .

welcome to the board ! PSL .

PSLimo · « **Reply #23 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:16:02 PM »

Quote

If you ever get a reply from them let me know

They responded to the email address on the site the next day. They do ship to the USA and left a contact email address.

However, after talking to someone in Germany it might not be to easy to ship.

He said:

Apparently this place doesn't really speak German... it is in deep Bavaria.

They will ship to the states. It needs to clear customs though. It is a lengthy and complicated procedure. To avoid customs issues with a dangerous device, they recommend two shipments. The customs would clear easier without complications in two boxes. The wooden piece and the the metal gun piece itself. You would have to re-assemble it. Said that would be easy. It takes 6 to 8 weeks delivery, plus any delays in customs. It would 62 euro per box to ship. They need proof of age to order... fax or email a scan. They don't speak English.

I can't believe we can't find a dealer that deals with these in the States. With some luck I'll have one in time for Christmas!

Phil

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:39:19 PM »

Send a complete description of the items, their stated purpose and some pictures to ATF imports branch and ask what is required to import them. Include print outs of the website in German and english with the websites url. Your description should say something like they are blackpowder muzzle loading of xx caliber intended for noise making, celebration and signalling and do not fire a projectile.

ATF will send you a letter stating if there is a need for an import permit. If an import permit is needed they will send you the import application. Fill them out and send it in with your suppporting data. If ATF sends you a letter saying no license reguired or they require a license, make a copy of the letter or license and send it to the seller over seas.

The seller needs to be told that a copy of those documents need to be include with the shipping invoice and inside the package. When your shipment arrives if Customs even looks at it they should see the papers and send it on its way. You may have to pay duties and import fees.

It is neither lengthy or complicated.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #25 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:53:50 AM »

PSLimo:
I don't understand, "this place doesn't really speak German...it's deep in Bavaria".

It's Germany. According to the news last week, their future gontser macher will not answer questions asked in any language but German ("This is Germany. We speak German").

rc

PSLimo · « **Reply #26 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:21:50 AM »

I guess I had a typo there. I meant the contact that called from Germany said it was in Bavaria. I've never been to either place so I'll have to take his word on it. The email I recieved from www.boeller-pfnuer.de said:

Hello,

We are ship to USA. 1Euro = 1, 47 USD. The handbollers to USA are taxfree -19%

Best wishes

W. Pfnür

The contact in Germany also said that when he called the company they found that shipping in two boxes will bypass Double D's suggestion to save time and possible complications with customs. I've never shipped anything let alone a cannon from Europe. I also don't have a clue about the laws involved and I don't want to contradict a moderator of this message board. However, if a legitimate company says that's the suggested proven method of shipping to the USA. That's what I'm going to try since I've been unable to find anywhere in the States that sells them.

Phil

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** October 08, 2009, 01:06:22 PM »

I wasn't wearing my moderator hat when I wrote that I had on my retired Customs Inspector hat on.

The only delays that you might incur in Customs is if some young green shiney new Customs Officer who has no idea what the item is and thinks he's intercepted a major WMD shipment and slaps a hold on it while he contacts the ICE and ATF Agents who may or may not know what to do with it. If the ATF agent knows what it is and understands its exempt status he will tell Customs to send it on its way. Or he can say it needs an Import licesense. If he says that then you will you will have to follow the procedure I already outlined and apply for an ATF Form 6. During the two our three weeks it will take to get the response for ATF Imports your shipment will be placed in bonded storage, for which you pay a daily storage fee. When ATF issue the exemption letter or even a Form 6, you have to send of that to the Custom Office that detained your shipment and they will review it and and notify you of the stoarge charges that are due.

Most likely you shipment will come sailing right on through, not a probelm.

But ask your self who do realy want to get your advice from about importing articles, the sales man or the Customs Officer.

I based my response on my experience from being on both sides of the importation desk. Do you want to hear my story about the time I imported an antique rifle from Australia and spent 8 hours sitting in the Customs waiting room while the young green shiney new Customs Officer who has no idea how to process an import of an antique rifle. He was really embarassed when he found out he shouldn't have siezed the rifle and that I was a Customs Officer and didn't tell him.

Oh and by the way shipping in two boxes will cost more and send up red flags if Customs finds one

RocklockI · « **Reply #28 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:21:37 PM »

i've recieved a blackpowder blunderbuss in two packages . one with the lock ,and one with the rest of the gun . they said it saves a lot of hassle . i had no hassle . ymmv

gary

PSLimo · « **Reply #29 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:27:33 PM »

Quote

young green shiney new Customs Officer

Thanks for the insight, I know what you mean being a 30 year City of Chicago employee...

I guess I'll hope for the best and my new found German contact will be doing the transaction if, back to my original delema... There aren't any dealers in the USA that import these hand cannons.

Phil