Wildcat rifle rounds for Indiana hunting

[tatonka]

Just read a post by schoolmaster about .243 cal being the minimum for Indiana deer hunting with a rifle. I'm sure the case length restrictions would be applicable thus limiting commercial rounds for hunting in Indiana. Anyone out there using a wildcat round? I would like to know more from anyone that has a wildcat that I could use in my contender or encore rifles. Thanks

[Dinny]

Tatonka,
   The wildcats I have heard of so far are .358 Indy, .358 BFG, a 357/445, and a shortened 45-70 cartridge. Last I heard, there wasn't enough interest in the .357/445 to get it off of the drawing boards yet. Who knows, maybe we can help with that.  It will be difficult though, as we have a plethora of other fine choices.

I'm sure as the years go by and the popularity of wildcat "pistol cartridges" becomes greater, we will see more of them widely available.

Link found here on GBO regarding Wildcats: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,119582.0.html

Thanks, Dinny

[Tom Threetoes]

The minimum diameter is .357 so any .243 would be illegal.

[schoolmaster]

The 243 I refered to was ONLY in pistols such as the TC Encore, Contender, and Savage Striker. The minimum RIFLE caliber is .358 and the maximum length is 1.625

[hoosierhunter]

I think someone had the pistol minimum and the rifle minimum mixed up. I believe that .243 is the minimum for pistols. I know that .357 is the minimum for rifles.

"Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of
.357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum
case length of 1.16 inches; and have
a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are
legal to use only during the deer firearm season.
Some cartridges legal for deer hunting
include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester,
.41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum,
.44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45
Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM,
.475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50
Action Express, and .500 S&W."

And if anyone has more info on that shortened .45-70, I'd love to hear some specs.

[mcwoodduck]

There is the semi wild cat 44 Auto and 357 auto mag that are made from cutting a.473 rifle case (308, 30-06, or 7X57 rounds to 44 mag lenght and then either sticking in a 44 bullet or necking to 357/ 358 and loading.  And them loaded to 44 mag specs.
There are the whole JDJ line of rounds like 375 JDJ and 358 JDJ that are based on the 444 marlin case.
as well as 411.  There is also a 416 Barnes that is a necked 45-70 to 416 but you could neck to 411 to use 405 win bullets, 423 to use 404 Jeffery bullets and on.  Cutting the 45-70 will make will give you 475 Linebough or 480 ruger.
There are also rounds made from the 284 Win case. similar to the 44 Auto mag but will take larger diameter bullets like the 475 and still be necked.
You would just have to load to Contender pressures.
And easy one would be either 357 Max or 35 Rem. but they are not wild cats unless you neck the 35 rem up to 9.3 or 375.

[tatonka]

Thanks for the replies. I'll stick with my 357 max and 44 mag for now in my rifles. Good shooting!

[Lon371]

I could be wrong, but dont the rifle round have to be a straight wall case? If so that would knock out most wildcats. Except in a handgun.
Lonny

[Dinny]

I could be wrong, but dont the rifle round have to be a straight wall case? If so that would knock out most wildcats. Except in a handgun.
Lonny

Lonny,
   The Rifle cartridge case can be bottlenecked as long as the bullet diameter and case length is within the regs.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

Another possibility is the 440 Corbon.

"The 440 CorBon Magnum combines the excellent ballistic coefficient of the 44 caliber bullets with the case capacity of the 50AE. This marriage produces a hyper-velocity cartridge with the advantages of both parents. The bottleneck cartridge is a super idea that produces a hunting round capable of very flat trajectory and amazing down range power. This design works well in single shot pistols or the hefty auto pistols.
Imagine if you will a semi-automatic handgun with an eight round magazine - the power of a 260gr bullet screaming along at over 1400 fps producing 1136ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards. This is serious fire power in a handgun, but the combination of gun weight and higher velocity tames the recoil admirably.
Gary Reeder has a great looking new revolver chambered in 440 CorBon Magnum. Check this out The Ultimate 44."


http://p104.ezboard.com/440-data-from-the-loads-I-have-shot/feaglesnest50aefrm10.showMessage?topicID=3.topic

http://p104.ezboard.com/older-440-data-and-50ae-for-now/feaglesnest50aefrm10.showMessage?topicID=2.topic

Remember the velocities listed are from a pistol.  If one could chamber a rifle in that caliber, the resulting velocities would certainly be higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.440_Cor-bon#cite_note-0

What's possible with a Marlin?
http://www.levergun.com/Marlin/index.html

UPDATE: The H&R Handi rifle is not an ideal platform for the 440 CorBon.  The rebated rim makes it very difficult for the extractor to pull it out. Perhaps a TC could do it, but I'm not too sure. Unless of course, you want to bring a cleaning rod with you to push the brass out of the chamber.


Thanks, Dinny

[Lon371]

 You guys are sooo going to get me in trouble!!!!!! So if one day I come on here stuttering and acting skiddish, you will know she be me with a new rifle

Lonny

[LaOtto222]

Just to add another thought - why not neck up a 7mm BR to 357? I am not sure there is any advantage over some other cases, except it would be different. But I think that is what most wild cats are any way - some thing different.

[Dinny]

I asked this same question in the NEF/H&R Rifles Topic.  Feel free to view and answer either place.

Can a .45LC chamber be reamed to a short .460 S&W chamber not exceeding 1.625"?  Maybe I could patent it and call it the .460 S&W Special.   Are there any ballistic advantages to this over the shorter(1.383") 454 Casull?

Thanks to Quickdtoo for the following data: QuickLoad predicts a 100% load density of Lil'gun should get over 2500fps with the 240gr XTP Mag at under 60kpsi.

Thanks, Dinny

[Lon371]

  Has anyone shot a .445 super mag?
 http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm

Lonny

[Dinny]

  Has anyone shot a .445 super mag?
 http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt445sm.htm
Lonny

Lonny,
  I have looked at the ballistics and found that it only beats the 44 Mag by a small margin.  Those are only pistol ballistics that I found, but the differences in velocities should be proportionate when shot from the same barrel lengths (unless the extra length allows for a longer powder burn time). Brass is available and one might be able to load it using the 44 Mag dies. What I have yet to find is how well 44 Mags shoot in a 445 SM chamber. IMHO, I would only do the rechamber if I were to expect to take shots over 100yds.
 
Thanks,Dinny

[quickdtoo]

See Petemi's range report in the H&R forum on his 445 Supermag Handi after I rechambered it for him, he's only shot 44mag in it so far, he's still waiting on 445 ammo. The 445SM will push 300gr XTPs real close to 2000fps.

Tim

[Roger_Dailey]

As with any wildcat round, loads developed and safe in one platform may or may not be safe in a different platform.  For example, loads developed in a strong bolt action may not healthy in some break action or lightweight bolt actions.

Last year I used what I called a wildkitty.  I used a 460 S&W barrel on an Encore.  I shortened the 460 brass to max Indiana legal and used standard 460 S&W loading data.  I did not seat the bullets to the crimp grooves.  I used the standard 460 S&W overall length.  That way I wasn't reducing powder capacity and could use standard loading data (just had less bullet in the case). I seemed to loose about 25-50 fps with the shorter cases, accuracy was the same.  300 grain flex tip bullets were running about 1950-2000 fps.

At the top of the Indiana legal rifle wildcats seem to be .357 diameter bullets sitting in some form of the Winchester Short Magnum (358 Grant) or Winchester Super Short Magnum case (358 BFG).  I believer the ballistics of these two equal/exceed the 358 Winchester.  Somebody is probably trying to shorten and neck down a 50 BMG.  It would be an awesome wildcat, but would be a real pain to contstruct and maintain. Short and fat is where its at!  Maybe they should be called a "something or another ROGER"?

This year I'll be using a Ruger 77/44 in 44 mag and/or a 445 SuperMag on an Encore (if I ever get the barrel). 

Take care, have fun...

[Dinny]

Here's another one, 9x39 US, 358 Gremlin, .350x39-they're all the same it appears.

Looks like Ruger made a Mini-35 back in the early '90s.

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza/9x39/9x39_info.htm


Thanks, Dinny

[Muddyboots]

Instead of wildcat, I went with SS barrel from MGM in .500 S&W Mag in Encore, 26" Pro-Hunter barrel contour without fluted, throated for Hornady 300 gr. FTX. So far, couldn't be happier. Groups inside 1" ALL day at 100 yards. Powder is Lil Gun at 45.0 gr through chronograph is 2390 average with 19 SD so pretty good on consistency. Recoil is OK with Pro-Hunter stock. I will be hunting with it this year unless I arrow buck sooner. Barrel from MGM is perfect fit an finish, doesn't foul at all. No copper buildup after 100 rounds so far. Maybe another option for those not interested in wildcats.
Muddy

[Lon371]

Muddyboots

 That gun will hunt! I was wondering if anyone would get one to shoot good enough. I guess it can be accurate

Lonny