357 Mag Handi rifles no good for deer!!!

[Jimbo47]

The .357 Mag is in a class by itself, and comparing it to a 30-30 is a put down to the .357 mag and here is why.

First of all the round is larger and makes a bigger hole, and probably the most important is that it's light on the recoil so your shots can be placed more accurately.

You can shoot it more, and get to really know your rifle when you shoot .38 specials for plinking, or 360 Dan Wesson, and the fact that you can ream the chamber to .357 Maximum, if you want it to approach the ballistics of the .35 Remington.

Reloading for the rifle is reasonalbly cheap, and the results are more often than not, a one ragged hole in the target, so consistant shot placement is pretty much a given.

Four calibers in one, so try doing that with a 30-30!

Keep in mind you are using this caliber rifle for yardage of 150 yards or less, and you have the perfect deer rifle.

Adequate?    I would say more so, but that's just from my personal experience, and not just an opinion!

So yeah, it is what it is, and I agree!

[maglvr44]

I just went to Remington's website, their 240gr. 44 magnum load is exactly the same as Winshester's, having 741ft.lbs. at the muzzle, that too is less than the Buffalo Bore 180gr. 357 magnum loading, so whether you may not like it, agree with it, or see it a a modern day miracle, the fact is, that the 783ft.lbs from the B.B. 180gr 357 mag loading has MORE muzzle energy(power) than either Remington or Winchester's 240gr. 44 magnum loads!

[jy951]

While I agree the .357 mag will kill a deer no problem, I do not believe it's even close to as good as the 44 mag.  If you want to look at ballistics, make sure you look at rifle ballistics and not handgun.  Also, don't try and compare the max BB .357 load to a standard .44 mag load.  Compare a BB .357 load to a BB .44 load and see what the difference is.  In pretty much any bullet weight range, the 44 mag will have lots more energy.

I don't know why people constantly try and compare the two cartridges. They have very diffierent capabilities.       

[trotterlg]

357 Mag the equal or better of a 30-30?  Get real guys, stop dreaming, it just doesn't work out that way.  I think the operative word here is "almost".  I would shoot a Bear or Elk with a 30-30 without any question, with a 357 Mag?  I don't think so.  Could it be done?  Sure, but why would you want to?  Use a proper tool for the job, that is why they make both the 357 and 30-30, they only compare to each other in Never Never Land.    Larry 

[BrianB]

While I agree the .357 mag will kill a deer no problem, I do not believe it's even close to as good as the 44 mag.  If you want to look at ballistics, make sure you look at rifle ballistics and not handgun.  Also, don't try and compare the max BB .357 load to a standard .44 mag load.  Compare a BB .357 load to a BB .44 load and see what the difference is.  In pretty much any bullet weight range, the 44 mag will have lots more energy.

I don't know why people constantly try and compare the two cartridges. They have very diffierent capabilities.       

Even though I have never used a 44 mag rifle, I have to agree...comparing it to a .357 is apples and oranges.  Simply looking at the two should tell anyone that.  Two different bullets, two different applications.  But, where I hunt, deep woods and swamp, close encounters, either one will drop them dead.  In fact, the .357, 30-30 .44 mag and 45-70 are all excellent choices where I hunt.  I can't even remember the last deer I shot over 60 yards. And the whole argument between the 30-30 and .357?  Well, the biggest naysayer on this thread sounds like he missed the deer completely with his .357.  No deer shot under 100 yards with a .357 Handi is going more than a few yards, much less one shot in the vitals at 15 yards. Just use common sense. And common sense tells me I'll be hunting with the .357 this year.  (Though the 44 is attractive as well... 15 years with a 45-70 has been rough on my shoulder, and I haven't gotten any younger.)

357 Mag the equal or better of a 30-30?  Get real guys, stop dreaming, it just doesn't work out that way.  I think the operative word here is "almost".  I would shoot a Bear or Elk with a 30-30 without any question, with a 357 Mag?  I don't think so.  Could it be done?  Sure, but why would you want to?  Use a proper tool for the job, that is why they make both the 357 and 30-30, they only compare to each other in Never Never Land.    Larry 

The "almost" is only on paper ballistic charts.  I have shot deer with a 30-30 rifle and have seen what happened when my son shot a deer with a .357 GP100.  I was more impressed with the .357 handgun.  This is from experience, not what I "would" do or what I think might might happen. It's probably best not to tell people to "get real" until we know what "real" actually is.  Though I have to say, the old proven 30-30 will flat knock a hole in a deer.

[Dee]

357 Mag the equal or better of a 30-30?  Get real guys, stop dreaming, it just doesn't work out that way.  I think the operative word here is "almost".  I would shoot a Bear or Elk with a 30-30 without any question, with a 357 Mag?  I don't think so.  Could it be done?  Sure, but why would you want to?  Use a proper tool for the job, that is why they make both the 357 and 30-30, they only compare to each other in Never Never Land.    Larry 

Would you shoot a Bear or Elk with a bow and arrow?

[45-70.gov]

44  mag  exceeds  30-30 in a rifle

What are you smokin?  It doesn't exceed the 30-30 in anything except is has a large bore and shoots bigger bullets which going by energy and trajectory don't compare! 

Tim

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30302*R44MG2*RH44MGA

kinetic energy  isn't the final  answer
but  it is a good arguement
under 50 yards [wich  isnt the question]  i think  the  44 exceeds  the 30-30

and  doesnt change the fact  that
 the  357  mag  is fine  for  deer

[billy_56081]

357 Mag the equal or better of a 30-30?  Get real guys, stop dreaming, it just doesn't work out that way.  I think the operative word here is "almost".  I would shoot a Bear or Elk with a 30-30 without any question, with a 357 Mag?  I don't think so.  Could it be done?  Sure, but why would you want to?  Use a proper tool for the job, that is why they make both the 357 and 30-30, they only compare to each other in Never Never Land.    Larry 

Would you shoot a Bear or Elk with a bow and arrow?

I have and will. Even used it on some of those armoured super white tails and wild hogs.

[Dweezil]

I agree, .357 is no good on deer. I have shot two with one at 15 and 30 yards. Deer ran fast and were never recovered. It's just not enough gun on average. Yes, sometimes it works. But what are you guys smokin' ? No way does a .357 compare to a 30-30. You're dreamin', look at the numbers - you're in never-never land if you think a .357 hits like a 30-30 - wake up and smell the coffee! Be a responsible hunter. Use an adequate round! I have no losses with my 45-70 and a 405gr bullet. Sweet dreams fellas.

...y'see, the trick is to keep both eyes open and actually aim at the deer. 

[Sourdough]

Yes a .357 is adiquate and will do a fine job on thin skinned animals like deer within reasonable ranges.  So will a .22 Hornet, Deer are easy to kill. 

Personally I prefer more than adiquate, for those times I am a little off myself.  Or when the range is more than I had planned on.

I was hunting Whitetail in Tennessee with my Dad.  Dad said a 30-30 was all we needed since we would be hunting in heavy woods, with shots 30 to 40 yards.  I took my 30-06 anyway, Dad carried a 30-30.  We hunted all day and did not see anything but does and fawns.  As we were leaving we crossed a power line cut and there was a buck out at 500 yards.  Dad just looked at him and shook his head, too far he said.  I shot the buck and took it home.

[Josh M.]

When compairing rounds of different speeds and different calibers to each other, paper ballistics often don't mirror what has been noted in the field.

However if you compair TKO numbers I think that you will get a good idea what a bullets relitive effect will be on game most of the time.

Notice, I said most of the time - there's always the animal's "X" factor.
I've killed at least a dozen deer with 12ga slugs.  Of the heart shots; one dropped in it's tracks, most made 10-20 yards, and one ran 200 yards (with a thumb sized hole through it's heart).

There's no rule of thumb that covers "always", but TKO seem accurate most of the time.  - JM.

[44 Man]

Just as a note, the .35 rem has been accepted as a real deer stomper for many years.  My old Marlin only puts 200 gr round nose bullets out it's shortened 18" barrel at 2000 fps with a full load of 4895 and it just stomps them.  I would say that a .357 mag loaded with 180's at the same velocity should do the same thing.  Thought of buying a .357 mag Handi and rechambering it to .35 rem, but then I thought, why?  The .357 mag and Max will do the same thing as the Remington would do, or close enough that it doesn't matter.  Whatever is hit will never know the difference.  44 Man

[Chas.]

I think it interesting, and nobody has commented, on the fact that harvests were made up to 200 yds. with a .357 handgun in the original post of this thread.  Now I've shot the same .357 for 45 years and there is no way that I would try shots like that.  This Wesson fella sure has a high opinion of his abilities.  I just wonder how many animals he shot at but didn't kill to achieve the posted statistics.

[maglvr44]

357 Mag the equal or better of a 30-30?  Get real guys, stop dreaming, it just doesn't work out that way.  I think the operative word here is "almost".  I would shoot a Bear or Elk with a 30-30 without any question, with a 357 Mag?  I don't think so.  Could it be done?  Sure, but why would you want to?  Use a proper tool for the job, that is why they make both the 357 and 30-30, they only compare to each other in Never Never Land.    Larry 

Get real??? OK, let's get REAL!
Direct from the BB website.........

Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, SUPERCEDES 30-30 energies!!!


 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!

Now as much as I dearly love the good old 30WCF, you can plainly see it has been BEAT by the lowly .357 mag.!

[maglvr44]

I think it interesting, and nobody has commented, on the fact that harvests were made up to 200 yds. with a .357 handgun in the original post of this thread.  Now I've shot the same .357 for 45 years and there is no way that I would try shots like that.  This Wesson fella sure has a high opinion of his abilities.  I just wonder how many animals he shot at but didn't kill to achieve the posted statistics.

There really are some folks that are better with a handgun that the average shooter will ever be with any rifle, scoped or otherwise, I'd like to say I am one, but that is FAR from the truth! However I do know a husband and wife that are that way, clay birds at 150-200 yards all day long and RARELY ever a miss! He shoots a stainless Redhawk 7.5" 44mag with WELL over a million(yes 1,000,000) rounds through it. She favors her Wildey .45 Win. mag and S&W 8-3/8" .22, and those are offhand shots, not from a rest.
Incredible shots to say the least!

I also recall a fellow at a range one day bragging what a good shot he was with his Garand, well as fate would have it he bragged to the wrong fellow! The gent was a retired corrections armorer, and army firearms instructor, the bet was $20 for the smallest 3 shot group at 300 yards, the guy wouldn't shut up and kept on bragging, the retired gent started taking the scope off his 10.5" 29 Smith, the kid asked "what are you doing?" the gent calmly replied " Son, i'm giving you a fair chance" The gent took a notebook from his shirt pocket, flipped a few pages, adjusted the sights on his Smith and said he was ready, the mouthy one laughed and said he'd go first, he laid prone and fired his 3, the gent took his stance and fired 3 offhand, when targets were compared the garand man had fired a 6" group and the gent with the Smith had placed 3 holes within 4 inches! It was PRICELESS!!!

[Chas.]

Henceforth, will you be known as maglvr357?

[maglvr44]

Henceforth, will you be known as maglvr357?

Very Happily!!

[Sourdough]

Remember this is a 357 Handi Rifle thread, but I just got to add this.

When I was in my early 20s, I thought I was pretty hot with a pistol.  I had bought my first pistol a 357 Ruger Blackhawk.  First time I tried to draw it I almost blew my foot off.  Bullet hit my boot, just missing my big toe.  So I put it away and went and got some instruction.  Two years later I was getting pretty good and could hit pretty much what I aimed at within 20 yards.  Went home on leave and thought I would impress my Dad and brothers.  Took the pistol to my Grandma's farm so we could shoot.

Six rounds fired each time.  Dad was doing good to hit the paper.  My brothers did not do any better.  I was getting 3 to 4 shots in the 10 ring at 20 yards, using both hands and taking my time aiming.  Thought I was really hot.  As usual youth was ate up with the stupid.  My Mom came out and took the pistol, her first shot was a little off, somewhere around the 7 ring.  Then she put the remaining 5 in the 10 ring.

Then we all got a lesson.  My grandma, who was in her 60s at the time, came out with her Colt 45 Lighting.  All five rounds in the gun was shot into the 10 ring, and she never raised the gun above her waist.  She later told me her father had refused to let her get married till she could hit five whiskey bottles, off five fence post, from the back of a running horse, sitting sidesaddle.

[maglvr44]

  My Mom came out and took the pistol, her first shot was a little off, somewhere around the 7 ring.  Then she put the remaining 5 in the 10 ring.

Then we all got a lesson.  My grandma, who was in her 60s at the time, came out with her Colt 45 Lighting.  All five rounds in the gun was shot into the 10 ring, and she never raised the gun above her waist.  She later told me her father had refused to let her get married till she could hit five whiskey bottles, off five fence post, from the back of a running horse, sitting sidesaddle.

Now THAT is some shooting!!! Don't mess with Grandma and her Colt

[bilmac]

I few times over the years I've tried 357s and 44s in rifles on deer and always end up telling myself I'm never going to do that again. Even the 30-30 has much more authority. Course I'm talking big ol' mule deer, not oversize jackrabbits.

[mike@nds]

First deer I shot was with my Handi in .357mag, it was bang-flop at 20 yards.

ETA: It was a big Minnesota 8 pointer and dressed out at around 170 lbs.

Would I take a shot at 150 with it, probably not.

That's why I reamed it to Max, so I can get higher velocity with heavier bullets.

If I'm going to sit on the edge of a clear cut I'm bringing a scoped Mauser in 6.5x55, .308, or .30-06.

[Spanky]

They'll all do the job under the right circumstances... why fight about it.



Spanky

[BrianB]

They'll all do the job under the right circumstances... why fight about it.



Spanky

Cuz its just plain fun!

[45-70.gov]

They'll all do the job under the right circumstances... why fight about it.



Spanky

cuz  we can

[Spanky]

They'll all do the job under the right circumstances... why fight about it.



Spanky

cuz  we can

They'll all do the job under the right circumstances... why fight about it.



Spanky

Cuz its just plain fun!

Sounds like a good enough reason to me then.



Spanky

[spikehorn]

I can only speak from practical expierience, I took a spikehorn buck at 134 paces with winchester white box 125gr jsp double lunged him and blew out the driverside shoulder and he dropped where he was shot. I also brisket shot a six point with the same load, and he dropped where he was shot. For me the 357 mag works.

[maglvr44]

I can only speak from practical expierience, I took a spikehorn buck at 134 paces with winchester white box 125gr jsp double lunged him and blew out the driverside shoulder and he dropped where he was shot. I also brisket shot a six point with the same load, and he dropped where he was shot. For me the 357 mag works.

You must take very short steps! everyone knows 50 yards is really stretching it for a 357 to kill a deer

[BrianB]

I can only speak from practical expierience, I took a spikehorn buck at 134 paces with winchester white box 125gr jsp double lunged him and blew out the driverside shoulder and he dropped where he was shot. I also brisket shot a six point with the same load, and he dropped where he was shot. For me the 357 mag works.

You must take very short steps! everyone knows 50 yards is really stretching it for a 357 to kill a deer

Just for a second, I thought you were serious!

[PHATINJUN]

Nothing like a .357 can't work thread the first week of OCT to get you boys ready to kill some deer eh!!!!!!  ;DKurt

[spikehorn]

Nothing like a .357 can't work thread the first week of OCT to get you boys ready to kill some deer eh!!!!!!  ;DKurt

Actually I'm 6'4" tall and have a 36"in seam, and a really bad judge of distance because when I pulled the trigger I thought he was about 60 yards out.

I'm counting the minutes! here in N.Y. early ML starts Oct. 17th.