Author Topic: Strong Firarms Co. 8 gauge Signal/Salute Cannon (Read 4698 times)

Cannoneer · « **on:** October 05, 2009, 10:05:57 AM »

While its not a board rule as far as I know, I think it has been recommended that we don't post info about current live auctions, but I think that maybe I'll be forgiven for this one, because If anyone of us pays this amount for this signal gun, then hopefully our wife, or another family member will get us to a good neurosurgeon, post-haste (in other words, I don't think any of us would pay this amount for this gun).
I first saw photos of this "Strong" salute cannon years ago on the Cannon-Mania website, and I'll admit that I was smitten with it as soon as I laid eyes on it. At the time, it was not offered for sale, it was shown just to give an example of one of the Strong Firearms Co. salute cannons. To be honest about it, the fantasy field carriage, maybe even more than the tube itself, is what I personally find so attractive about this piece. The wood is tiger maple, and I truly admire the craftsmanship involved in this split trail carriage, and the way the brackets have undulating curves that meet at the base, where the top surfaces of the cheeks are banded with bronze/brass strips. Here are some specs that were copied off the site.

Overall length is 34"

Overall Width is 20"

Barrel is 15 " long

Wheel Diameter is 15"

8 Gauge Blank

Now this might be considered by many of us to be the most important figure taken from this auction site: This gun can be yours for the "Buy It Now" offer of $25,000.00, that's right folks, for just 25 grand, you can be the proud owner of this rare Strong field cannon. You know something, if I were Warren Buffett, I just might reach into my pocket, and lay 25 large down on the table for this cannon.

cannonmn · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2009, 11:52:41 AM »

Thanks, love those pix, not so much because I love the piece, which I don't, but all the stuff to critique on it!

I've never seen that version of Strong 8 GA. tube before, with the swinging hammer. I've seen smaller bores with that feature, however. Notice how the trunnions had to have large bushings installed after-market to adapt it to that apparently home-made carriage. I've never seen any version of a Strong 8-GA., even completely original in mint condition, sell for anything like $25K. I've seen some of the very largest Strongs sell for that kind of money, such as a Strong 1-gauge on original field carriage with original limber, in mint condition, yes. The thing pictured here, no. So it will sit there a while. If I were looking to buy a Strong, I'd keep looking until I got one that was all, or mostly all original.

Can anyone read what's stamped on the muzzle? That also looks like an after-market mod by some owner, since I've never seen a Strong with any muzzle marks.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2009, 01:21:58 PM »

G. L. B.

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2009, 01:45:10 PM »

Posting links to active auctions is indeed prohibited by GBO Rules. Discussing the auction without pointing to them is not.

Intereresting gun for sure. Thanks for posting!

Cannoneer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2009, 05:24:41 PM »

Holy guacamole! This guy has reduced his starting price to 17 Grand, (and as if that's not enough) or best offer. Best offer, heck, this may be turning into a steal, I'm going to get right on it.

Around four years ago I talked to a gent that collected Strongs, (among other cannons) and he thought that this was a rare barrel type; he also (like Cannonmn) believed that this was a carriage replacement, probably custom built by some fine craftsman (Cannonmn phrased this in another manner). He told me that the main thing with these guns was the type of barrel, and the condition of same. As has already been noted, someone has had three letters (probably initials -G.L.B.-) stamped on the top of the barrel and the muzzle face. The letters stamped between the trunnions are crooked, and the letters on the muzzle face are upside down; I wonder how much this defacement devalues this piece? The collector I talked with has a website: The R.H.A. Collection.
At any rate, this will probably demonstrate why I'm never going to be a wealthy collector, because I would still much rather have this gun mounted on this charming fantasy field carriage, than on the original chunky mahogany Marsilly carriage, or plain iron field carriage that it originally came with.

RocklockI · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2009, 05:54:32 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong , but are you saying there is a cannon with upside down letters and crooked initials ? is it a real Strong ?

down to 17K OBO

you are joking right ? , "smiles with you tee hee tee hee harr gaffa" .

If not ,I'm sure I'm missing something bold , BUT Seacoast Artilleries letters are perfect . and cheaper .
I cant see a maker allowing mistakes like that

??

ETA to say I WAS WRONG agian.....sometimes I feel like Forest Gump after I took time to read the OP .....

I still rather own a treble banded Brooks . They have been burning the midnight oil these days . Deadlines and all .

They make a hell of a signal too . Those guns are going to age with more grace than S/B allowed !
The wood darkening with use and powder stains on it .

BTW How big a bore is a 8 gage ?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:15:34 PM »

Gary,
It's a real Strong signal gun made sometime in the late 1800's to early 1900's, but I don't think its worth any 17 large. Those initials that are stamped on the barrel would have been put there by someone that owned the gun somewhere along the line of its history, not by the Strong Firearms Company.

Yes, its an 8 gauge.

cannonmn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2009, 08:39:09 PM »

If you jump to about 4:16 in this video, past all the swords, there are some small cannons. One is a Strong 8 GA. on the original cast steel field carriage. It is the only 8 GA. I've seen on that version of field carriage. I owned a 2 gauge on the same type carriage, but traded it off unfortunately. It was a hefty beast, I'm guessing 250 lbs. or so. I don't have any photos of it, didn't own it long enuf for that. Was younger and more wreckless then.

And here's everything you'd ever want to know about shotgun gauges. 8 gauge works out to 0.835 inch diameter bore. whereas for comparilson 12 ga. is something like 0.729. http://wapedia.mobi/en/12_gauge

[yt=425,350]1WYwds0upwA[/yt]

Cannoneer · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:39:47 AM »

Thanks, Cannonmn; I looked long and hard at that one on the other thread, as usual I'm envious. The gun that really pops out on that table is the new one, that is one fine model.

Of all the examples I've seen, (so far) this is the Strong 8-gauge that calls out my name loud and clear.

RocklockI · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2009, 04:04:13 AM »

After I reread the post I realiazed it was a real Strong and that some half wit put his own Initials on it .

damn kids , who else would stamp it like that ! UPSIDE DOWN . mercy .

anything like that on anything historic and the value goes to near nothing . Maybe just low ballem BIG time , see what they . Unless of course it was a period done thing by a soldier , or someone named Grant , or Lee who scrawled on it thats OK .

A bamboo fishing builder and collector friend of mine put like this ,any rod with a dedication or name is worthless to me ....NOW IF it said something like "To Gary my Good Freind , Ernest Hemingway" ,

well thats a differant story !!

GGaskill · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2009, 10:58:03 AM »

If the Strong had no factory markings on the muzzle, chuck it up in a lathe and face it off until the initials are gone. Probably wouldn't take more than .010" which would likely be well within the length tolerance from the manufacturer. It would be a little clean for a while but that would go away by itself which the initials wouldn't do.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2009, 01:36:49 PM »

George even without a lathe, I think (if the letters aren't stamped too deep) I could remove those marks with a file, fine grit sand paper, and some brass/bronze polishing compound, without anyone being able to tell they were ever there. I removed the "Made in Spain" and "Black Powder Only" stampings that were on the steel "Old Ironsides" barrel I have without leaving an indentation that's discernible by eye.

Forward Observer · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2009, 06:48:49 AM »

Just in case anybody is interested, this same item is back on EBay. He has dropped the price to $14,900 or best offer. He listed it under salute cannon this time.

Cheers

Cannoneer · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2009, 10:19:46 AM »

Hey F-O,
Who knows, if this seller keeps being directed towards a more reasonable starting price he might end up actually getting a bid.

Soot · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2009, 12:45:37 PM »

I think one of the talented machinists here should make a reproduction.

Sunrise · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2009, 07:08:52 AM »

I think you're right. If well done, there would definitely be a market.

Cannnon-Mania advertises a reproduction [http://www.cannon-mania.com/CM8gauge.htm], but "production of these cannons has been put on hold due to the substantial price increase in brass / bronze and external machining costs".

dan610324 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2009, 12:44:05 PM »

anyone who know the price when they sold them ??

Cannoneer · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2009, 02:20:42 PM »

Dan,
I got this chart from another site, the information was supposedly taken from a Strong brochure from Circa 1885.

1. Length (Inches)
2. Bore (Inches)
3. Shell No.
4. Shell Length (Inches)
5. Powder Charge
6. Rail Height (Inches)
7. Suitable for Yacht (Feet)
8. Two Wheel Carriage
9. Four Wheel Carriage Rubber Tires

1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9.
13   3/4    10    3    8 drams    6    12 to 30    $ 20.00 $ 22.50
15   7/8    8    3    10 drams    6 1/2    20 to 40    $ 35.00 $ 40.00
18   7/8    8    3 1/4    12 drams    7    25 to 40    $ 50.00 $ 55.00
20   1    4    4    20 drams    8    35 to 60    $ 75.00 $ 80.00
25   1 1/4    3    4 1/2    1/8 lb.    10    46 to 85    $ 120.00 $ 128.00
28   1 1/2    2 1/2    5    1/6 lb.    12    85 to 100 $ 165.00 $ 175.00
32   1 3/4    2    5    1/4 lb.    14    90 to 150 $ 200.00 $ 215.00
36   2 1/8    1    5 1/2    1/2 lb.    17    150 + --- $ 300.00
42   2 1/2    0    6    3/4 lb.    21    175 + --- $ 400.00
54   2 1/2    00    7    1 lb.    28    200 + --- $ 750.00

Cannons were offered on traditional wooden Naval carriages or on metal field carriages.

Well, there's no question in my mind as to why the word yacht is linked to these guns, because with the prices listed here (for the given year of 1855) a person would have had to be able to afford a yacht to also be able to afford one of these cannons.

GGaskill · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2009, 02:29:57 PM »

It would be interesting to find some other object that cost $750 in 1885 that is still available today and compare its current price.

Firearms might be a logical category to use but a $750 rifle or shotgun in 1885 would have been really expensive while today, $750 is almost common.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2009, 10:41:48 AM »

I got this information off an American cultural history site: For the year 1900, the average workingman (average of all industries) made $438/year. If this statistic is fairly accurate, then it tells me that not many average working men owned Strong salute cannons in 1900.

GGaskill · « **Reply #20 on:** November 25, 2009, 11:01:11 AM »

Probably about as many as owned yachts.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2009, 07:25:02 PM »

George,
Your mentioning firearms got me interested in finding out what a rifle cost in this time period, so I found a Winchester catalog from 1900. The John Browning designed Model 1885 'falling block' single shot rifle that was described as: "Plain Sporting Rifle - Octagon Barrel, Plain Trigger, Plain Walnut Stock, Rifle or Shotgun Butt Stock, Blued Frame..............................$15.00"

GGaskill · « **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2009, 08:59:14 PM »

Even a highly engraved one could be had for less than $100, as I remember.

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2009, 09:02:45 PM »

Did the Sears Roebuck catalog have cannonz, too?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #24 on:** November 26, 2009, 07:13:02 AM »

Ex 49'er,
I've got a repro 1908 Sears Catalogue, and I just made a thorough search for cannons; no go!

Double D · « **Reply #25 on:** November 26, 2009, 07:28:18 AM »

Does GBO sponsor DUCK ISLAND CANNON WORKS LLC & RBG CANNONS build anything like this?

GGaskill · « **Reply #26 on:** November 26, 2009, 08:29:42 AM »

Looks like 10 ga is the largest they make.

This is another variety.

lendi · « **Reply #27 on:** November 26, 2009, 12:55:20 PM »

HI all,
Both barrels can be bored for 8g. Berke (RBG Cannons) also has a 31" brass barrel with the dovetail breech, however it is very pricey. It can be bored to a 2g or smaller.
len dicw

Cannoneer · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2009, 07:49:49 PM »

Thanks for the information, Lendi; I didn't know that either of those models could be had in 8 gauge. I've had the CG salute cannon marked on my "someday list" for a while now.

To whom it may concern: The Strong salute gun is now down to the bargain basement price of $12,900.00, or best offer. Still way too steep for me, but who knows how low it'll go. Doh!

Sunrise · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:10:22 AM »

Yes, those Herreshoff yacht cannons look pretty neat (the CG version doesn't do much for me). Anybody here own one?

As Len says, RBG will do 8 ga versions by special order (they will also apply 24k gold plate!). I don't know what the surcharge would be, but suspect that it wouldn't be worth doing as there apparently (??) isn't much difference in sound between 8 ga and 10 ga blasts. According to Cannon-mania, the reports are 124.6 and 121 decibels, respectively see http://www.cannon-mania.com/sound_tests.htm.