Author Topic: Federal Brass??? (Read 1005 times)

mrcooper · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 10:39:50 AM »

I have been reloading 223 Federal brass, can only get 2 reloads out of them because the primer pockets get to big to hold a new primer does any one else have that problem??

No I am not loading them to max

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 12:59:33 PM »

ONLY ONE REASON primer pockets get loose that fast and that's WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE. Matters not what your load is in your gun and with your components your pressure is drastically too high.

Old Syko · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 01:38:10 PM »

Mrcooper you're not alone. Everyone I know has the same problem with Federal brass. I quit using it about a year ago or so for the same reason. If it was just a matter of high pressure the issue would arise with other brands of brass with the same capacity and dimensions and it doesn't. The problem is with the alloy used. If you load to pressures too low to reliably cycle an AR you will have the same problem.

yooper77 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2009, 01:44:04 PM »

Yep, I don’t use any Federal brass.

I find their primer pockets to be loose from once fired.

I have attempted to reload my own Federal factory fired brass and the primer pockets are too loose. High pressures are not the issue in this case unless Federal is reloading them too hot from the factory.

Yet, I have zero problems with any others brass.

yooper77

Grumulkin · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:00:03 PM »

I would agree that primer pockets enlarge faster in Federal brass than in other brands but, as Graybeard said, getting only 2 reloads out of them isn't much even for Federal brass. Too high pressure has to be strongly suspected.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:25:06 PM »

So far I'm up to Five loadings on my range pickup fed cases with only a slight loosning of the primer pockets

mantley · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:32:27 PM »

When they get loose use Wolf primers, they fit tighter than the other brands of primers.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2009, 04:09:26 PM »

I noticed that in the 223 mixed brass I load the Federal seems to have a smaller case capacity.

krod47nw · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2009, 04:17:25 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on October 06, 2009, 04:09:26 PM

I noticed that in the 223 mixed brass I load the Federal seems to have a smaller case capacity.

There you go.. Higher pressure

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2009, 05:46:21 PM »

I've had no shorter case life from Federal than any other brand and I've used a LOT of federal brass.

Tom W. · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:51:54 PM »

What is a normal load in my .308 with Remington brass causes the bolt to get very hard if not downright difficult to open with Federal brass. I should have known better, but sometimes my mind fails to function properly. Most if not all Federal brass has less internal capacity...

cwlongshot · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:13:00 AM »

This is news to me also.
Point in fact, I have used FEDERAL as my "go-to" brass for many years. I still cover a couple hundred nickle 45-70s I bought many moons ago.

IMHO, for the 45-70 and 45 COLT is some of the best you can get!!! In these calibers its the ONLY ones I load the "hot" stuff in. My 2000fps 400gr 45-70s are in nickle FED cases and my top loads with 300Gr hard cast to 1300fps in FED brass. Federal brass for the Long Colt is know to be thicker thru the web than other brass. Go fill some and compare it to Rem and Win...it holds less!! NO ISSUES to date. For my accuracy 223's again FED brass gets the nod with H322 powder, sparked with a match primer topped with a 53Gr Sierra bullet. The 223 is not a overly hot load, just a wonderfully accurate one at "correct" speeds for the caliber.

I have probably loaded it in every caliber I load for. (No small claim) I do not remember noticing this at all. Matter of fact, I don't remember tossing ANY brass for loose pockets for many many years..

CW

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2009, 02:24:53 AM »

I don't recall tossing brass for loose primer pocket in the roughly 40 years or so I've been reloading centerfire ammo. But then I'm not one to push beyond pressure limits either.

mrcooper · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2009, 07:43:27 AM »

I do not load hot, the last bunch was 3 grains below Max, cases showed no sighs of high pressure, no flattened primers and no sticky bolt also measured with mike .oo1 expansion. I have been reloading for 50 years, only problem is with federal brass,
I have some federal in 270 once fired am looking forward to loading some and see if they have crap primer pockets

jhalcott · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2009, 08:28:00 AM »

I have several brands of brass and a few different lots of military .223 cases. Weighing them shows as much as 20 (TWENTY) grains difference in weight. MOST lots are close to each other with in the lot. BUT a case that weighs 103 grains is going to show a big difference when loaded with a charge worked up in an 83 grain case! These cases are factory new and fired in MY gun. Even different lots of Winchester ammo can have weight differences. Couple that with a NEW lot of powder and a change in primers and you can have a LOT of pressure swings!

84Jim · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2009, 08:46:26 AM »

Ditto on the loose primers in federal .223 brass. I have a bunch with about 5 reloads that I'm considering scrapping. Other shooters that I know have that same problem, and many scorn Federal brass for that reason. My AR loads are at the low end of the spectrum, so I don't figure high pressure is the cause.

I think that CCI and Federal primers are a couple of thousanths bigger than the others and might get you another reload or two.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #16 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:31:33 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on October 06, 2009, 05:46:21 PM

I've had no shorter case life from Federal than any other brand and I've used a LOT of federal brass.

Same here, and the only brass that i've noticed loosening the primer pockets faster than the others is, Weatherby brass. (Norma) To this day, i don't like Norma brass.

DM

84Jim · « **Reply #17 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:42:20 PM »

Before I get taken to task, I just miked some CCI small rifle primers, and they are the same as others, 0.175". I don't have any more Federals, so I can't verify their size.

84Jim · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:57:08 PM »

Just so there's no confusion, I think the loose primers only applies to .223. I have a bunch of Federal -06 brass, and there is no problem with it.

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:04:31 PM »

When I shot High Power Matches I used Federal Brass because the USAF Shooting Team Captain who got his Federal ammo for free gave me all his empty brass. I reloaded it quite a few times using Varget powder and a 69 grain boat tailed bullet. I never had any problems.

sk330lc · « **Reply #20 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:44:19 PM »

Quote from: mrcooper on October 07, 2009, 07:43:27 AM

I do not load hot, the last bunch was 3 grains below Max, cases showed no sighs of high pressure, no flattened primers and no sticky bolt also measured with mike .oo1 expansion. I have been reloading for 50 years, only problem is with federal brass,
I have some federal in 270 once fired am looking forward to loading some and see if they have crap primer pockets

Was this Comm. Brass or Mil-spec with crimped primers? If mil-spec did you swage the pockets to much, with a Dillon or Rcbs swager. I have seen this problem.

chutesnreloads · « **Reply #21 on:** October 07, 2009, 05:55:11 PM »

This is interesting.I have some federal 8x57 brass that started getting split case necks after the fourth neck size.Never full length sized.Have some remington and s&b brass that has only been sized 2 and three times.Was going to wait and see what happened with these before judging the federal brass but seems to me you should get more than 4 shots out of a case.

mrcooper · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2009, 06:17:04 AM »

Its commercial fed brass not military no crimp in the primer pockets.

Old Syko · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2009, 08:59:08 AM »

Quote from: 84Jim on October 07, 2009, 12:57:08 PM

Just so there's no confusion, I think the loose primers only applies to .223. I have a bunch of Federal -06 brass, and there is no problem with it.

This is correct. The problem exists only with federal commercial brass headstamped F C 223 Rem. Mil-spec is a different animal. In the case of the brass mentioned the problem is not a capacity issue.

After 40 years of handloading I've recently discovered that weighing brass is no more accurate for determining case capacity than flattened primers are a gauge for high chamber pressure. Some time back a young man showed me a better way and proved to me why his way worked. Full length size, trim to length, and reprime your brass. Then fill to level with glass bead media using a razor blade to level the fill. Then weigh the media. This method gives true capacity readings that discount brass weighing as an accurate way of measuring capacity.

I use federal brass in other calibers and have no problems what-so-ever. This is an isolated issue that has been discussed in many other places. I've just chosen not to use it for the above reason and I don't use Guat brass because of the small flash holes. For anyone who likes to use them, feel free, and I hope you continue to not have problems with it.