Author Topic: Garys new hobby , NOW with video !!!!! (Read 16744 times)

GGaskill · « **Reply #120 on:** October 27, 2009, 12:36:03 PM »

I do not recall any accidents causing injury at any of the casting sessions I participated in, even though we had lots of spectators in addition to the actual persons dealing with the metal. At least the spectators tended to stay out of the way. But we had some serious protective gear, although some of it was in pretty poor shape. At least the people closest to the kiln and molten metal had the best gear. I found a pair of asbestos gloves at one of the estate sales I had been to and they were very useful. Welding leathers didn't provide much protection from the radiated heat. Our face protection was more like arc welding helmets than the things you were using. They kept the infrared radiation out of the way.

We did occasionally encounter broken or cracked molds which resulted in metal going places it wasn't supposed to but the molds were always in a sand filled pit so spills didn't go anywhere.

Do you have any temperature measuring equipment? It looked like your castings set up pretty fast. I think you should be at a higher temperature before you pour, especially with the small crucible (a nice looking one, I must say) and small charge weight. An infrared thermometer is easy to use; keep checking eBay for one that goes to 2500° F.

RocklockI · « **Reply #121 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:35:11 PM »

i have a pyrometer (digital) . but it will not go far enough into the crucible to get an accurate reading .

i think we can shift our routine to get the mold out first ,then the bronze .

this is all a learning thing as none of us has cast more than a lead bullet except for the zinc casting session at the 'gopher ranch' .
i could be wrong with mt but that was it b4 this endevor !

if you are talking about a welding helmet ....? i dont think so ...i might go blind but i wont pour molten metal all over mike ......

GGaskill · « **Reply #122 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:41:11 PM »

Yes, I am talking about a welding helmet but you don't leave the #12 filter in, only the clear one or a #5 like you would use for OA welding.

dan610324 · « **Reply #123 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:45:53 PM »

I will not say anything about your protective clothes

but you sure need a longer handle on the degassing tool
do you have any flux in the crucible from the beginning ??
dont turn the burner off until 1 sec before you remove the lid
and heat it a little more

RocklockI · « **Reply #124 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:30:36 PM »

i am no welder , the only welding hemets i've looked thru are totaly blacked out ? i didnt know there was a range of ...shade .

no kidding i need a longer degas handle .... but even more , a longer handel on the skimer . you can watch me burn a brand new pair of welding gloves .

thanks for that tip Dan ....put it in your book ! i will remove the mold first then then do the degass /flux afterward .

GGaskill · « **Reply #125 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:41:39 PM »

Is the furnace homemade or commercial?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #126 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:10:38 PM »

These stills give you a slightly closer look at the process of casting molten bronze metal. Pay some attention to the last one. It shows a way that Gary and the Seacoast buys prevented the 'orange hot' crucible from cracking open and pouring the entire molten bronze charge on his lawn. A Kiloea style eruption in his backyard we did not need. Some people want more technical photos and others want more artistic shots. We know Gary quite well after our experience in his 'Back to the Bronze Age Project', so I believe we can safely predict a bit more of the artist will leak out if you keep the pressure on.

What's so nice about bronze is this; the sophistication of bronze to cast iron, as their ability to reproduce a detailed object is concerned, is like comparing chess to checkers. Extremely fine detail is reproducible by using the investment, or lost-wax process to produce a 'positive' which melts, then vaporizes within the investment matrix, leaving a void which has all the intricate details which were evident on the wax positive. The molten bronze, when brought to the correct temperature, can then fill the void reproducing the intricate shape of the wax positive.

Tracy and Mike

The stainless steel degassing powder insertion tool is withdrawn from the bottom of the crucible.

Here the fluxing powder goes into the crucible still being heated by the furnace.

'Neptune' withdraws the investment from the Burn-Out Oven with his trident.

A glowing charge of bronze is lifted carefully from the furnace using crucible tongs.

Gary skims the impurities off the surface of the melt with a dross ladle.

The moment that liquid bronze flows into the mold. Only practice will improve the aim and volume of the pour.

After pouring the first Smee, the excess metal, about 6 pounds goes into ingot molds, this time taking some care to reducing the thickness of the bridge between ingots, so you can actually separate them for use in the next melt without bandsawing them.

This steel tray filled with fire brick is an important piece of safety equipment. Kept under a waterproof cover, until needed, this unified platform of fire brick provides a fire-proof, flat and level surface upon which to place extremely hot objects without creating dangerous conditions, like the production of steam that damp dirt or lawn grass likely would produce.

RocklockI · « **Reply #127 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:53:53 PM »

I dont know as I rescued it from a junk yard .

GGaskill · « **Reply #128 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:07:21 PM »

I dont know as I rescued it from a junk yard.

That was a fortutous find.

Does it have a name tag on it anywhere?

Victor3 · « **Reply #129 on:** October 29, 2009, 12:52:46 AM »

In the video, it looks like the bronze turrned into taffy pretty quick.

I imagine if one were to use a filter, the stuff would have to be plenty hot to keep it from clogging. Probably need to work fast, with no delay from furnace to pour.

RocklockI · « **Reply #130 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:03:46 AM »

Quote from: GGaskill on October 28, 2009, 07:07:21 PM

I dont know as I rescued it from a junk yard.

That was a fortutous find.

Does it have a name tag on it anywhere?

yes it was ,there are no tags or names but as it is approx. 1/4 inch steel nicley done i think a foundery made it ,now that i think of it, it had a door that closed like a high presurre door in that it swung over thhole then the door closes in and cams over ...if that makes any sense ?

unfourtunaly when 'they' dumped it off their truck with the door open it hit the ground and 'spung itself' . i didnt want the door anyway but it was a bi@$H getting the door closed again . i had to hire a welder to weld the door closed 100 bucks the junk yard only wanted 50 dollars for the furnace .

so i only have 150 in it ..... but tons of effort getting it ready ....

i found the old kiln at the same junk yard a month later .....it's a cress c14 70 bucks . Bruce who is a freind rewired it for me only one of the three elements was in tact . but there was a bag inside with two brand new elements instructions and a recipt from an old out of buisness pottery shop . the recipt was dated 1986 .

to top it off my next door nieghbors mom owned that shop ....it blew his mind that i found it and relocated it next to him . it works great now but i would like to figure out a way to get it to "hold" better , i was thinking maybe just an old oven knob assy. wired in B4 any juice gets to the switches ? plus MT and Bruce found a 'stand' of sorts bruce cut it all up and welded to fit .

i dont have too many freinds ,but the ones i have are priceless. Bruce has been a welder ...forever and he wired up homes for a living so everything is very well done .

somehow it feels like i have a heck of alot more in those two machines then 220 bucks ...honesly some times i was wondering why didnt i just buy a turn key hobbitsts type furnace

? but most of them are made from thin sheet metal ...? But that is why it's taken since March when Dan conned me into this !

8 months and one Smee to show ......

Vic3 thats true if you watch that video it is almost pianfull how long it took to get it poured . i will remove the mold next time B4 doing the degas /flux so to have hotter metal .

GGaskill · « **Reply #131 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:51:34 PM »

Your pouring shank is pretty good to the amount it is visible in the video, but I couldn't tell if it has a T-handle on one end so it is easy to rotate for the actual pouring.

RocklockI · « **Reply #132 on:** October 29, 2009, 03:15:30 PM »

yes it does have the goal post type end on one side and thats another part of this where Bruce was a great help , Mike too , I drew up the plans and made the tongs and mike designed and made the pieces for the shank .

That was very hard to make as he turned 90 pound round of steel to the correct taper ....! that was so he could cold forge the hoops that surrond the crucible .

you can buy them but they are silly expensive .

GGaskill · « **Reply #133 on:** October 29, 2009, 04:09:56 PM »

Victor3,
I found another foundry supply place in the City of Commerce. I think I bought some petrobond sand there once many years ago. They have a few web pages but apparently not a web site that lists what they sell in any detail.

http://www.foundry-supplies.com/orderinfo.html

Frank46 · « **Reply #134 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:34:39 PM »

OK you have your copper melted and ready to add the tin. I'm guessing that this isn't done all at once. is there and strirring going on to improve the mixability of your now molten tin and lead.?.Granted your "smee" didn'treqquire a lot of copper and tin for your first cannon, but if and when you decide to do a bigger project how do you get a truely homogenous mixture?.Years ago I used to visit the school on company property where the students were taught how to solder the ends of the lead casings that the splices were in. And then use wetted cloths with melted tin to make sure the splices were weather proof. Used to get the drips out of the pots on fridays as that was the last day of the school. Still have a box of them in the garage. They would also leave the cable sheathing out so scroungers could get some. Frank

dan610324 · « **Reply #135 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:27:12 PM »

the copper melts at 1083 degrees celsius, so when its liquid I put all the tin in at once
stir it just a little, not so much to mix it but mostly to have the slags to reach the surface
when the tin are put in it lower the temp to approximately 960 celsius so you need to continue heating a lot more to reach 1120 - 1200 celsius (pouring temp)
while heating it will mix by itself , then you mix it a little when you do the degassing

RocklockI · « **Reply #136 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:30:37 PM »

The tin goes in after the copper is molten . after the degassing process in which i made some effort to mix . but I dont think it needs it .....After obtianing the proper heat Ive had no problem in making clean homogenious bronze at all . Degas , flux ...go for it ......but I'm open for suggestions .

gary

eta The Oracle has spoken ......Dan !

Cannoneer · « **Reply #137 on:** October 29, 2009, 10:53:25 PM »

Dan, or anyone else in the know; in the vid it can be seen that Gary takes a good shot to the face, and it's apparent that it shook him up a little. At first I thought a super hot draft of air might have gone under his mask, and hit him right in the kisser, but he say's in a post on this thread that it was caused by fumes from the flux.
Are there any fumes created in the process of making bronze (from the bronze/tin itself, or from the flux, and degassing chemicals) that are really hazardous to ones health? Put another way; should a high quality respirator be worn when casting bronze?

dan610324 · « **Reply #138 on:** October 30, 2009, 12:23:33 AM »

if you got a little longer handles that you dont have the face directly over the exhaust hole there is no problems, and makes something to use for putting the last flux into the crucible

you start with a little flux directly in the crucible to reduce the posibility for the molten metal to acumulate gasses from the air, after you put in the tin you put on a little more flux and stir it a little to help the slag to float up to the surface
then the degassing also while the crucible still is in the furnace with the burner still on full effect
the only thing you do after the burner is shut down is to skim the slag , that you do directly the second before the pour

tin and copper doesnt produce any dangerous fumes while melting , its NOT as lead and zink

WHEN IT COMES TO THE FLUX AND DEGASSING I CANT TELL , IM NOT FAMILAR WITH ANY AMERICAN BRANDS

Victor3 · « **Reply #139 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:25:08 AM »

Quote from: GGaskill on October 29, 2009, 04:09:56 PM

Victor3,
I found another foundry supply place in the City of Commerce. I think I bought some petrobond sand there once many years ago. They have a few web pages but apparently not a web site that lists what they sell in any detail.

http://www.foundry-supplies.com/orderinfo.html

Thanks, GG. Looks like they have just about everything. They allow "walk-ins", so maybe they're okay with selling small quantities.

RocklockI · « **Reply #140 on:** October 30, 2009, 06:30:47 AM »

I am using SYNtheticEXothermics BA315 which is the flux and ASBURY#761 is the degasser .

I have MSDS for each, inhalation can be an issuse ,you should not breath the gas . it will not drop you dead and of course is not for indoor use without controls to keep levels down . but if you get tomuch you should be removed to outside air ...NIOSH approved resperators are recomended if ventalation is not adequate .

No I would not go out of my way to breath it ! the effect was a little like a whif of ammonia ....some extentions need to be added to the skimmer and degas tool . Irked me watching my brand new welding glove singe on the movie ....move your hand dummy !

YMMV Gary

RocklockI · « **Reply #141 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:02:17 AM »

here is the latest on smee . he's pretty much done , i'm still going to bore and vent . but as there was no real sence in really polishing due to imperfections .

also i finally got the morko done ! I think he looks good ,not perfect but as simple as that gun looks , it takes four times as much time to get the text on it than to make a gonne .

the beard is still too long but thats so you can tell it from the origanal .

plus some of the text on the origanal has just fallen off so there is that .....

eta here smee on his bed .

and this

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #142 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:18:11 PM »

Smee's looking really good! The dolphins especially show a lot of nice detail. Keep updating us with pictures as the boring and finishing work progresses. I think I'd probably do at least a quick buffing even if you're not going to do a full polish, just to make sure you have an even finish, then let it patina. What bore size are you planning? I'm really looking forward to seeing it in it's completed form...hopefully with some smoke and fire coming out of it!

On the Morko (which is also looking very good), are you planning on casting it facing up or down? Since the back of it needs to be machined out for the tiller, and can better afford any impurities, it seems like doing it facing down may be best. I know the original text was damaged and unreadable, so did you incorporate a hidden message of your own on the side that isn't in the photos of the original?

RocklockI · « **Reply #143 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:27:51 PM »

Quote from: gulfcoastblackpowder on October 30, 2009, 01:18:11 PM

Smee's looking really good! The dolphins especially show a lot of nice detail. Keep updating us with pictures as the boring and finishing work progresses. I think I'd probably do at least a quick buffing even if you're not going to do a full polish, just to make sure you have an even finish, then let it patina. What bore size are you planning? I'm really looking forward to seeing it in it's completed form...hopefully with some smoke and fire coming out of it!

On the Morko (which is also looking very good), are you planning on casting it facing up or down? Since the back of it needs to be machined out for the tiller, and can better afford any impurities, it seems like doing it facing down may be best. I know the original text was damaged and unreadable, so did you incorporate a hidden message of your own on the side that isn't in the photos of the original?

those dolfins are awsome...i can stare at them a long time ... you see much more in the bronze than you do in wax ! i think it's a 'definition ,light /dark thing' but it is true . Up or down on morko ?.......LOL i havent thought thru what i'm going to do to finish the him . this whole thing is/has been one HUGE learning experiance ....it's the only thing i've ever done that i hadnt kinda been into b4 i went in with both feet . I AM GOING TO DO IT RIGHT because ...

i'm going to ask DAN ...and then i'll learn .

at every step of this (and i could not even say how many that is) , disaster seems possible ,from your model or wax falling apart in your hands to god knows what horror from the bronze !

Dan made those dolfins are made from a little tiny mortar he bought on auction . He liked them so much that he created a silicon mold and "lifted them" from the model without removing the dolfin from the gun . Very clever fellow !

and all credit for them goes to Dan .

a hidden message ? ....?.....? why yes i did ,

if you hold it upside down on a mirror it says to play "Strawberry fields forever" backwards , at which point you will know that you are referred back to "The Imigrant Song" by Led Zepplin and then it will make sense .

it will say "so soft your fields of green , could whisper tales of gore , MORKO GONNES and swords in hand .....WE ARE YOUR OVER ...LOOURAAARDSSS (overlords for the young people here who havnt hear it

) BOOM , BOOM , BOOM BOOM ,BOOM , really !"

you can hear the Morkos roar ! ...They'll die with with holes of sores .... and and crawling pains of war ,worms acrawling and agian WE ARE YOUR OVERLOOUURRDDS . listen and say i'm wrong $:-\$ .

I love that song .....its one that sticks in my head ....bet your sorry you asked by now !

gary

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #144 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:42:50 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on October 30, 2009, 02:27:51 PM

those dolfins are awsome...and all credit for them goes to Dan .

I think you're right about the coloring and shading of the bronze showing off the details. I'd guess that's one of the reasons it's used in sculpture so much.

Quote from: RocklockI on October 30, 2009, 02:27:51 PM

a hidden message ? ....?.....? why yes i did , if you hold it upside down on a mirror it says to play "Strawberry fields forever" backwards ...

I love that song .....its one that sticks in my head ....bet your sorry you asked by now !

gary

I guess it's time to break out the 45's...though, I think I need a new record player...

Not really the sort of hidden message I was thinking of, but it certainly would make a good story to tell people when they ask you what the barrel says.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #145 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:13:33 PM »

Gary,
Those imperfections on the barrel are a lot less noticeable after it has been cleaned up, in fact it looks like you could file/abrade the surface, and get a uniformly smooth finish on it; but what do you think accounts for the color difference in the area between the dolphins?

KABAR2 · « **Reply #146 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:31:34 PM »

Quote from: RocklockI on October 30, 2009, 02:27:51 PM

a hidden message ? ....?.....? why yes i did , if you hold it upside down on a mirror it says to play "Strawberry fields forever" backwards , at which point you will know that you are referred back to "The Imigrant Song" by Led Zepplin and then it will make sense .

it will say "so soft your fields of green , could whisper tales of gore , MORKO GONNES and swords in hand .....WE ARE YOUR OVER ...LOOURAAARDSSS (overlords for the young people here who havnt hear it ) BOOM , BOOM , BOOM BOOM ,BOOM , really !" you can hear the Morkos roar ! ...They'll die with with holes of sores .... and and crawling pains of war ,worms acrawling and agian WE ARE YOUR OVERLOOUURRDDS . listen and say i'm wrong $:-\$ .

I love that song .....its one that sticks in my head ....bet your sorry you asked by now !

gary

Besides being upside down and backwards you wrote it in Latin of course......

I still think you should try cleaning Smee up, I have seen far worse casting cleaned an polished to where they

looked pretty good, I think Smee will come out better than that.

Victor3 · « **Reply #147 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:02:34 PM »

I just finished watching a great bronze casting DVD series. This is the 1st of the three...

http://www.survival.com/html/v18_-_bronze_1.html

Ron Hood is a novice and showed what he's learning (including mistakes). He went to Lost and Foundry in Washington where the owner did a demo on how to make a sand casting. He went to Romania and spent some time with an artist who made a lost wax bronze life mask, axe head, etc for him. He also shows how he put together his own setup for casting at home.

Lots of good info for anyone starting out with casting. Even if you're not going to cast anything, the DVD where he went to Romania is very interesting, with a lot of historical info on early metalworking.

RocklockI · « **Reply #148 on:** October 31, 2009, 02:26:51 AM »

Quote from: Boom J on October 30, 2009, 09:13:33 PM

Gary,
Those imperfections on the barrel are a lot less noticeable after it has been cleaned up, in fact it looks like you could file/abrade the surface, and get a uniformly smooth finish on it; but what do you think accounts for the color difference in the area between the dolphins?

Boom J ,the color diferance is due to a filler i tried ,I am using this first smee to try differant things . This is an attempt to find something to fill small voids and pits . These voids were not small and that is why I'm not going to spent alot of polishing time . If he'd have been any other than my first I would have threw him back in the pot.

I'll bore him out and rain hot firecracker death above . The sled needs to be finished too .

GGaskill · « **Reply #149 on:** October 31, 2009, 12:00:14 PM »

In my art class, we TIG welded our silicon bronze castings with silicon bronze filler rod and the repairs were indistinguishable from the base metal.

C90700 (tin bronze) is listed as fair in welding characteristics. Not sure what you would use for a filler rod. Probably the best thing would be small strips from the excess (of which you should intentionally make a few after each pour.)