Author Topic: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR  (Read 3711 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« on: October 10, 2009, 07:01:33 PM »
Man I came close tonight to having to shoot a bear with my .17 HMR.   

I was out removing nieuscence beaver.  The .17 HMR works good.  These are small beaver, and I don't want any pass throughs to damage the pelts.  The .17 so far has been able to stop them without them getting back to the water.  Noise is low enough not to draw the attention of the campers in the nearby camping area.  The beavers have started building a dam across the flood overflow channels.

Tonight I was sitting near the channel watching for more beaver to bring more willows down the bank.  I wear headphones that amplify sound and block the sound of my shot.  I heard something coming up behind me and thought it might be another beaver.  Turned around real slow and there stood a bear.  Darn, unable to tell if it is a Black or Grizzly, too dark.  Bear was about 25 to 30 yards away.  Put the crosshairs on it's nose, hoping it would turn and go away.  I started talking to it, letting it know I was there.  Bear stopped and started rocking back and forth.  Decided if it took one more step forward I would shoot.  Bear was sniffing the wind, guess it finally got wind of me and turned away.  It circled around and down the slope to the water.  Crossed the channel, water only 1 foot deep.  I backed up the slope to my truck.  After crossing the channel it came down stream, then climbed the bank to where I had shot a beaver earlier.  It must have smelled the blood on the ground.  The bear then started following the blood trail back down to the water.  I did not feel good about this.  I climbed into the truck and left.  In the morning I will make sure I have my 460 S&W on my hip when i go back to check my traps, and look for another shot at beaver.

Still wondering what a Speer TNT would do to the brain if I put it right up the nasel passages.  Would it make it to the brain, or explode in the cartilage before it got there.  I'll have to test that out the next time I shoot a Black Bear.  Bring the head home and see how far a .17 HMR will get toward the brain.

In Alaska you do not carry enough gun for what you are hunting.  You carry enough gun for what might be hunting you.
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Offline Thebear_78

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 07:08:27 PM »
had a similar standoff with a pissed cow moose while predator calling one day.  Had the 17 HMR hoping for a fox.  Started carrying my 44 after that, now I carry my 10mm almost everywhere I go.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 07:13:58 PM »
I don't know why Cows come in to predator calls ready to kick a$$.  I've had that happen once and had friends that have had the same problem.  One guy did get stomped down on the Kenai a few years ago.

Maybe the pitiful squalls of a dying rabbit pull at the maternal heart strings.  I know my wife cannot stand those sounds since she became a mother.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 11:41:43 PM »
I seriously doubt it would have reached the brain. I believe all you would have accomplished would have been to really piss it off.


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Offline Maritime Storm

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 01:56:28 AM »
Certainly doesn't give one a warm fuzzy feeling to walk down a logging road and come face to face with a Bull Moose 2 weeks after the rut holding nothing more than a .22LR single shot, I can vouch for that.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 08:31:43 AM »
GB:  That's what I am thinking.  The cartilage in the nasal passages would stop that little bullet.  This morning I took my .460S&W no bear.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 07:11:50 PM »
Tonight I took my Ultra .223.  Just in case a bear did come out.  Shot a Beaver with a 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.  Worked great, instant kill, did not pass through.  Beaver did not dive as usual when shot with a .22 or .17HMR.  Beaver floated till I could get out there with a canoe to retrieve it.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 01:50:36 AM »
I really don't see the .223 as any more appropriate bear control than the .17 HMR. Sure it can work in a hunting situation but in your case it was not a hunting situation but rather a STOPPING situation should one charge. You sure seem to take the possibility of bear attacks lightly for a fellow living where you do. From what I've read most Alaskans go armed when outside with something able to penetrate and stop bears. You seem intent on the other hand to be eaten by one eventually, me thinks deep down you have a burning desire to be a bear turd some day.  :o


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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2009, 07:16:33 AM »
me thinks deep down you have a burning desire to be a bear turd some day.  :o

GB....That is a funny line!

A few years back there were 4 guys from my hunting club that were going up to Alaska on an unguided fishing trip. One of 'em had been up there before and pretty much knew "the ropes" of where to go fishing. Now, these guys were all outdoors types and although, I wouldn't say they could live on berries 'n bugs for months, they did know enough to get around a few weeks if they got lost. But, seeing that they weren't going all that far from the beaten path, that wasn't an issue.

And, they were pretty well educated in how to handle food to make their tents "bear proof" so they wouldn't be attacked in the middle of the night.

But, the biggest handgun (out of the 4 of 'em) they owned was a 357 magnum. So, the one fellow called the Alaska forestry service and explained to them what they were doing and where they were going. The AK Ranger said all that seemed well planned. Then the fellow told him the largest handgun they had was a 357 magnum and ask him if that would be good enough if they needed it should they encounter a bear attack. He said there was this long pause on the phone, and then the Ranger just ask "What are you trying to do.....Just piss 'em off?"

Yeah.....so they managed to acquire 4 44 magnums and holsters before they took their trip. Oh, they never used 'em.....but, better to have 'em and not need 'em than to.....you can finish that.


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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2009, 07:28:50 AM »
GB:  I always say, "What is life without a little excitement, AH".  But as of yesterday, I also carry a S&W460 on my belt.  Excitement is one thing, but a death wish, I think not.  Yet, I have no doubt I could drop this Bear with the .223.  While I was sitting in my truck this morning waiting for daylight the bear came back out and was eating grass along the channel.  As it got lighter I was able to tell, it is a small Grizzly, I'd say a two year old. 

Also saw eight Cow Moose, and Two bulls, out in the meadow along the channel.  Watched them for about an hour.  The bulls were chasing the cows around, and the bigger bull would chase the smaller one then go back to chasing the cows.   

The Beaver did not show this morning.  Last night while we were picking up the one I had shot there was another one swimming around and splashing with it's tail.  Could not see good enough in the dark to shoot it then.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2009, 12:16:25 PM »
Sure a .223 properly placed could do the job in a HUNTING SITUATION but in full charge mode from up close and personal? I seriously doubt you'd drop with it the .223, ya might get lucky but the chances of getting lucky are higher with the more appropriate handgun. I do hope that you have it loaded more like a .454 Casull than a .460 meaning a heavy hardcast not a light weight jacketed bullet for maximum velocity.


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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 12:22:05 PM »
Timothy Treadwell thought he was safe living with bears, over confidence turned him and his girlfriend into bear turds, even a 454 Casull may not have saved them tho. :-\


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Offline Keith L

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2009, 01:57:02 PM »
, me thinks deep down you have a burning desire to be a bear turd some day.  :o

The guy in Yellowstone that sells the bear bells (to let them know tourists are coming) and the extra strength pepper spray to the tourists tells tourists that you can tell the grizzly turds from the black bear turds because grizzly turds smell like pepper and are full of little bells.  Maybe now we can add 17 hmr bullets...
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 02:49:08 PM »
Kill a 2 year old charging griz with a .223? Chances of being good......I'd say "Not so much."

My experience with bear hunting? Zero.

My reading about bear hunting? Many.

My carry piece should I ever be in bear country? 44 Mag @ Minumum.

What....you nutz? .223 on a charging bear? I think your going to have a tough time placing a kill shot on a charging whitetail with a .223.

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Offline Thebear_78

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 03:55:41 PM »
I will say this about alaskans,  we figure out along the way that not every bush is hiding a crouching griz ready to charge.  ;)   While it is normal to carry a capable firearm, there are a lot of times when we get lax and leave the belt draggers at home.  Generally this will happen with varying degrees of frequency until we have a run in that reminds us to be better prepared.   Much better than  firepower is comon sense and awareness of your surroundings.  Being "bear smart" is much better than being "loaded for bear".  One of the bad things about hunting small game is that we are trying to be "sneaky" and this is usually a bad thing to be in bear country.     I'm sure that now sourdough has had his wakeup, he will be carrying his backup gun from now on. 

I personally don't go anywhere without my handgun, glock 20 w/6" lone wolf and hot loads, 220gr cast or 200gr jacked flat point.   I used to carry a 4" 629 smith around with me everywhere but switched to the glock last year.  I don't feel any undergunned.   I always carry in a chest holster and I think a comfortable holster is extremely important.  AFter a few more times having your pants pulled down and walking in circles with that 4lb monster 460 smith on your belt the desire to leave it at  home will creep back.   

Offline petemi

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2009, 02:11:33 AM »
I don't live in Alaska, but I do have black bears on my property that occasionally run over 500 lbs.  From March til December, no one goes out back without a weapon capable of stopping a 500 lb. bear.  Even grouse hunting, we carry slugs with us and a sidearm.  Summer berry picking is a prime time to run into bears and everyone goes armed.

I think a better shot on a bear with a .17HMR would be through the eye or ear......but how are ya gonna do that on a charging bear?  Like Ruark said "Use Enough Gun".

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2009, 08:45:36 AM »
I did not say anything about this before because some people are going to criticize me for losing a Grizzly.  But it happens.  So far this year I have stopped one charging Grizzly, with my .460 S&W.  It happened the day I shot the Grizzly at long range, about four weeks ago.  When the Bear came into the meadow and started crossing it smelled the gut pile.  At that point it ran straight into the spruces.  It circled slowly around until it was down wind of the gut pile.  It then came out and approached slowly.  I told my partner that I thought there might be another bear in the area, because of the way it was acting, my partner agreed.

I made my shot, and killed my bear.  As we were skinning it out I heard something in the brush.  Turning around I saw a Grizzly coming at us fast.  I drew my S&W 460, as did my partner.  I cannot say where his shots went, but he fired twice.  Both of my shots were in the Bears chest.  The Bear turned and went into the spruces.  We finished our skinning job, then followed the bear.  The blood trail gave out after about a quarter of a mile.  We spent two hours, and tracked it for over a mile and a half.  We lost the bear when it went into the river.  We could not find where it came out.  My partner really wanted this bear.  It was bigger than the six footer I had shot, and it had the white shoulders and forelegs that really stand out.

Two days later we went back to the area with Ernie, one of my Beagles.  Ernie smelled the blood and hit the trail.  Ernie was not following my track, because in certain areas we could see where the bear had crossed Grassy meadows and we had circled around to avoid the water.  Ernie went right through the watery meadow, straight on the bear track.  Ernie picked up the track about 300 yards up stream of where we had lost it.  The bear went up and over the hill, into the impact area of the Army and Air Force training range.  The bear can enter a restricted area, I cannot and will not enter it.  There is unexploded ordanence all over the next valley.  Consider that bear gone.

I was using the Cor-Bon 325GR XPB with the BARNES-X bullet.

Now I don't advocate using a .223 to hunt Bears, but if that is what you are carrying, it can be effective.  And the Nosler 60gr Partition will hold up for that kind of shooting.  The preferred shot would be behind the ear, or as someone else said through an eye into the brain.  But in an emergency you take the shots you are offered.  Last year when the Poler Bear was in Arctic Village, the men of the village went out looking for it.  The guy that found it was charged and all he had was an AR in .223, he stopped and killed the bear.   
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2009, 08:50:37 AM »
A "little bit of difference" between an AR with a 20 or 30 round mag most likely loaded with FMJ ammo and a Handi loaded with soft points. Just a wee bit mind you.


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Offline Big Nasty

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2009, 03:04:28 AM »
Well I believe some of these guys are just trying to prove dad wrong.... you know, when he said; Your never going to amount to S@#T.  GUESS AGAIN POP'S
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2009, 06:21:34 AM »
Well I believe some of these guys are just trying to prove dad wrong.... you know, when he said; Your never going to amount to S@#T.  GUESS AGAIN POP'S

That's right! Not only will I amount to S@#T!!! But I will be a BIG S@#T!!!! Because it's a BIG BEAR!!!!

Who said having the intelligence of a moron won't make you the BIG S@#T?

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2009, 07:39:14 AM »
Well said Davemuzz well said...
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Offline Thebear_78

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2009, 06:11:30 PM »
lets be honest here guys,  way more likely to be killed by a moose or even a bumble bee than a bear,  4 wheelers kill more people here every year than animals.    A thimble full of common sense and awareness is worth a standing army worth of firepower.   

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2009, 07:26:38 PM »
, me thinks deep down you have a burning desire to be a bear turd some day.  :o

The guy in Yellowstone that sells the bear bells (to let them know tourists are coming) and the extra strength pepper spray to the tourists tells tourists that you can tell the grizzly turds from the black bear turds because grizzly turds smell like pepper and are full of little bells.  Maybe now we can add 17 hmr bullets...

Just ask Timothy Tredwell.....
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2009, 11:53:30 PM »
Just ask Timothy Tredwell.....

I would......but I can't speak Bear Phooooo.

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2009, 04:36:50 AM »
Just ask Timothy Tredwell.....

I would......but I can't speak Bear Phooooo.

That’s probably a good thing! Speaking the bear phoo language is reserved for a unique chemical & biological make-up not often found among most folks.
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2009, 05:17:03 AM »
Not sure......but this girl may be close in that language?


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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2009, 11:47:11 PM »
don't you know her daddy is proud of spending his life  savings on her college education?
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2009, 12:56:48 PM »
Let me get this straight... you and your partner were both armed with large caliber handguns, shot a charging bear several times each and couldn't stop it but you think you could stop a charging bear with a .223??
Okey dokey then... enjoy your beaver hunting. ::)
GB might just be right about the death wish thing.



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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2009, 04:54:16 AM »

The guy in Yellowstone that sells the bear bells (to let them know tourists are coming) and the extra strength pepper spray to the tourists tells tourists that you can tell the grizzly turds from the black bear turds because grizzly turds smell like pepper and are full of little bells.  Maybe now we can add 17 hmr bullets...

He fails to tell people how to tell bear turds apart from griz turds and black bear turds.

Griz turds have the smell of pepper spray and have little bear bells in it, and Black bear turds have the smell of berries and other vegitation.

I will add that my uncle to shoot and kill a black bear with his Remington .223 using 55 gr fmj bullet with a frontal shot to the neck just below the chin.  He said it just blew up once it hit the neck bone but distroyed the bone entirely.  I myself would not use a .223 Rem even, but if your out varmint/preditor shooting and that is all you got, then you got to use what you got.  I always carry my Glock 20SF 10mm auto loaded with Double Taps 200 gr WFNGC @ 1300 fps no matter where I go in the woods, just because you never know what your going to run into.

Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Second Time for Bear problems with .17HMR
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2009, 10:29:37 AM »
I ain't even gonna try to tell Rog what to do in Alaska.  He's there and does it as he see's fit, where as I'm here in Montana and never been to Alaska.  But if it was me, I might save that bullet for me and not waste it on the Griz. ;D  I carry hard cast 45's when I'm out in bear country, nothing less than 300 gr. and a good chest rig or proper belt carries the weight of my Blackhawk or Redhawk fine.  DP
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?