Author Topic: brass resizing. 30-06 to 25-06 (Read 2008 times)

mjbgalt · « **on:** October 11, 2009, 05:02:53 AM »

i have a lot of old military ammo.

i have been pulling the bullets and resizing to .25-06.

some fit my chamber and some are too tight.

they do not need trimmed but apparently something isnt quite right...

if they fit my chamber they should be fine, correct? or am i looking at pressure issues? i have been loading a while but this is the first time i have tried to make brass for a rifle, from brass that started as a different cartridge. i dont think i need to trim the necks or anneal, as some do fit fine.

any ideas?

-Matt

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2009, 06:49:24 AM »

Matt

I too ran into this when making 25/06 brass from 30/06 cases , the necks were too thick on some of the cases after I necked them down , had to get a neck reamer for my Forster trimmer and the problem went away .

stimpy

Dee · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2009, 07:02:24 AM »

Over the last 35 years I have probably did exactly this same thing, whether it was just commercial 3006 brass, or military brass.
When you squeeze down the 30 caliber neck into 25 caliber necks you usually get too long of a neck or to thick a neck, or both. The brass has to go somewhere.
stimpylu32, speaks the truth on the solution to the chambering problem. However, there is another issue you MUST consider. The chamber pressure in a 2506 is CRITICAL, and can get out of control quickly.
Solution when loading re sized brass, ESPECIALLY MILITARY BRASS. Load down from max loads to start as military brass is usually thicker with less powder capacity, and watch you primers for excess chamber pressure. You can do this in stages going toward maximum loads by loading three at a time upward. When you start getting cratering your there.
I have owned 7 or 8 2506s, and they LIKE maximum loads in the accuracy department, and the round itself is inherently accurate, and has for years been used at Camp Perry I am told.

wncchester · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2009, 08:19:11 AM »

Both of the above posts have good info for you. You can find out for sure if you "paint" the shoulder and neck of a few hard to chamber rounds with a "dry-erase" type felt tip marker. ("Permanant" ink markers work too but it's a tad harder to wipe those inks away than the dry-erase types) Chamber the painted rounds, remove them carefully and check for where you get hard contact with the chamber. If you have a full circle wiped away from the shoulder then you haven't sized them quite enough. If you have a full circle wipe anywhere on the necks you need to ream or, better yet, turn them thinner.

I've been very satisfied with my Forster hand operated neck turner (HOT-100). It's one of the least expensive, very easy to use, has a "micrometer" adjustable carbide cutter that's ground to reduce excessive damage to the shoulder if you cut too far.

yooper77 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2009, 09:04:58 AM »

I resize 300 H&H Magnum brass into 257 Weatherby Magnum brass, and I have to turn the case necks.

Turning the necks instead of reaming them, gives me a uniform neck thickness.

If you ream the inside, then the outside can still be built up on one side then the other. This can give you out of center necks, which will hinder accuracy.

Neck turning is best for accurate and true uniformity.

Also, like what was said before, you need to be careful of the smaller military case capacity when working up loads.

Plus it’s always smart to check trim length.

yooper77

mjbgalt · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2009, 09:52:05 AM »

i ran them through the rifle and they all fit. a couple were snug but not anywhere near as tight as i have felt before, with guns and the correct ammo.

i knew i had to move the max load down a grain or so.

the trim length is perfect, the brass did not grow.

the neck is thicker, i am sure. the brass had to go somewhere. can i put a primer and a light load in them and just shoot to fireform? wouldn't that cause brass flow in the right direction and solve the issues?

Handgun Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2009, 11:08:50 AM »

Good info Dee.

Thank you for explaining on exactly why there may be higher preasure when useing military brass? I touched breifly on this in a thred like this and was discounted as inexpereinced in the matter. I do think it is important to know though if someone is going to produce brass this way as preasure could show up at the starting load, and people should be looking for it. Thank you , Tim.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2009, 12:21:43 PM »

Quote from: mjbgalt on October 11, 2009, 09:52:05 AM

i ran them through the rifle and they all fit. a couple were snug but not anywhere near as tight as i have felt before, with guns and the correct ammo.

i knew i had to move the max load down a grain or so.

the trim length is perfect, the brass did not grow.

the neck is thicker, i am sure. the brass had to go somewhere. can i put a primer and a light load in them and just shoot to fireform? wouldn't that cause brass flow in the right direction and solve the issues?

Matt

The problem here is that brass flows from head to neck , and if the necks are already too thick this will only make it worse . neck turning would be the best option , followed 2nd by reaming the necks .

HH

As a rule of thumb , Mil Spec brass will have a smaller case cap but not always , one should never assume that it will be the same as X-brand comm. cases , the fact that you do know this tells me that you are above the curve in experience and not behind it .

stimpy

mjbgalt · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2009, 01:02:54 PM »

yeah ahead of the curve but i am usually using the correct headstamp brass and do things by the book.

the wildcatting and case forming and such are probably not too advanced for me to figure out, but i just am not interested yet.

so i end up with semi-intelligent questions like this one lol

thanks to all for their advice.

-Matt

charles p · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2009, 03:40:12 PM »

Been there, done this. You also need to clean up the primer pockets of military brass.

I finally accumulated enough 25-06 headstamp that I threw out all the necked down stuff, but I've shot a ton of it.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »

some people on another site claimed to do this all the time and didnt have any problems.

i got out my micrometer and measured the necks. at the same place, the .25-06 was only like .005" thinner.

how much is too much?

yooper77 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:03:02 AM »

Resizing 30-06 Springfield brass down to 25-06 Remington is a semi-wildcat since the shoulder stays the same.

If they all chamber with bullets installed, you might get lucky having enough room for the brass to flow when fired or not.

When I resize brass I always check the case neck with the bullet installed with a vernier caliper or micrometer to make sure they are within the factory dimensions.

yooper77

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2009, 01:13:32 PM »

regular .25-06 is 0.285" and the 30-06 necked down with bullet in it is 0.290"

so???

mjbgalt · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2009, 01:16:04 PM »

the .25-06 brass that's once fired in my rifle measures 0.290" after being fireformed.

the 30-06 brass necked down with a bullet seated does feed fine in my rifle.

i know this isn't an exact science, but is 0.005" enough to cause an issue?

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2009, 02:27:45 AM »

Maybe and maybe not. What do both measure after firing? So long as there is room for it to expand to release the bullet it should be OK.

Many many long years ago the .25-06 was one of the first bottle neck rounds I reloaded for. I made many cases from .30-06 cases on hand before I found a supply of brass. In those innocent days of my loading career I had no clue about case trimming or thinning of case necks and all worked fine.

BTW I paid a grand total of $75 out the door for that as new Remington 700 BDL with a scope and sling mounted. I don't recall what kinda scope it was. It was one of the better bargains I've gotten in guns and I kinda wish it was still here but isn't and I don't even recall what I traded it off on.

sgtt · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2009, 03:56:16 AM »

One alternative is to make a chamber cast. Cerrosafe works well for this. With the information provided I, would not use the combination. You really have no idea how much the brass retracted after firing.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2009, 06:20:41 AM »

The best thing to do is get a chamber cast. The next best is a fired case in your chamber. Seat a few bullets in your resized cases and then measure the diameter of the necks. The should be at least .002" smaller than a cast and at least .001" smaller than a fired case. If not you need to turn your necks so that they fit the criterial above. Just a side note - if you are getting some to stick and some not - your necks are not the same thickness from one case to the next. You might consider turning all of them so that they are all the close to the same thickness. Good Shooting and Good Luck

mjbgalt · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2009, 12:01:13 PM »

got a good hard MAYBE. lol

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2009, 12:46:24 PM »

Matt

Have any luck working out the issues on this ? just wondering .

stimpy

mjbgalt · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2009, 01:48:53 PM »

been busy with so many things around the house and at work, haven't touched it since.

ordered 100 pieces of remington .25-06 brass so it's a non-issue now.

-Matt

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2009, 10:57:27 AM »

Afternoon shooters,

Years ago, I started making 243 brass from 308 brass and did so for quite awhile with no problems.

One time while shooting with a friend, he fired his 243 Ackley improved, and when he opened the bolt a number of pieces dropped on to the blanket.

Things like the extracter of his Sako, a primer and possibly other misc. parts and pieces.

Those many years back, we had no idea what caused the problem and it was not anything which ever happened again.

I still have that case somewhere in my stash, and it shows signs of very high pressures.

Some years later, another friend, also a reloader told me of the possibility of blowing up my 243 because of the 308 to 243 brass forming and then provided me with an artical which documented the demise of a nice pre-64 Winchester 243.

The owner had been, like myself and others, converting 308 cases to 243 Winchester and then using them without any other modifications.

From that time forward, while still forming and firing formed 308/243 cases to this day, I have made it a practice to always outside turn the case necks before that first firing in the 243.

As already stated, this is a situation of things being overly tight and the run away pressure it can cause.

Personaly, I turn the outside of the necks rather then reaming the inside.

I chose this way in the interest of consistancy.

If you ream, the reamer will follow the line of the already established case mouth opening, even if this is not center to the case or chamber.

While outside turning trues up the neck by removing more metal from the thickest portions of the neck, while little if any from the oft times thinner sides.

Anyway, while the 06 to 25 is not as great of a change as the 308 to 243, it seems that neck turning might also be a wise step.

One way or the other, it surely won't hurt.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

mjbgalt · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2009, 11:17:43 AM »

thanks for the insights.

i am using regular .25-06 brass now, but i may stick the resized brass away for later.

charles p · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2009, 01:41:25 PM »

When you neck a case down, it gets thicker not thinner.

There are so many ways to abuse a rifle that it's a wonder we are all still here. In my youth I pushed the envelope way too far. Fortunately I have both eyes and ten fingers - but almost no hearing. It was gone by age 20.

Failed my draft induction exam in 1966 but they said I cheated on the hearing test and a major approved me for induction. Heck, I'd never had or seen a hearing test. They gave me three in one day including a pilot's test in an isolated booth. Failed all three. Joined the CG and stayed in 27 years. I now know how to cheat on those tests. When I was examined prior to being promoted to 0-4, a girl told me I had the best hearing of anyone she had ever tested. I just said, "I've been told that before".

Wow, did I ever get off topic.